This is a STICK UP!!

[sonofone]

It amazes me that the church uses Malachi 3 vs 10 to say that not paying tithes is robbing God. They read this verse every Sunday just before collecting the money. What they should be saying instead is This is a stick up everyone empty out your pockets and hold back nothing.What a cruel joke and total reversal on the scriptures if anyone is getting robbed it is the poor unsuspecting souls that do not better.

[jER]

There are many false, derisive and impudent imitations of God – to which people should be ashamed, and repent of: "Tithing" is only one of them.

- jER

[musicman]

And they don't even have to pay taxes.

[jER]

Tax - a fee or due "levied" on the members of an organization to meet its expenses.
Tithe - the act of "levying" or paying...due as a "tax" for the support of the clergy or church (i.e. an organization)...a tax or assessment...to levy a tithe (tax) upon.

Sounds like double taxation of the people...

-jER

[sonofone]

Isn't it funny to know that the gun that has held and continues to hold so any hostage has no bullets! No scriptural leg to stand on. I heard a whole lot of preachers last month harping on the day of atonement and how it was so important for everyone to recognize that this was God's appointment with them to give them a sevenfold blessing,that of course he would only be able to do if the people did not come before the lord empty handed! The suggested amount that everyone send in was two-hundred and seven dollars which they would then take before the lord and lay it on the altar for you.Humm so much for us a being a royal priesthood that can come boldly to the throne of grace for ourselves.

[indianabob]

Sonofone,

Thanks for your comments;

I used to attend Worldwide Church of God.

I used to TRY to tithe and recommended that others try.

Even at the first I had problems concerning how to compute the tithe.

On my gross income or on the net income after all expenses.  The IRS was no help at all.
I didn't realize that it was strictly agricultural although we did teach tithing on the increase.

Over time I found excuses to reduce the tithe.  1. half was my wife's to use as she saw fit and she was not a member, so I only had to tithe on my half of my earnings.  All of her earnings from her job were separate and she didn't tithe on that either.  So now I was down to about 3% which seemed manageable, but my conscience was not clear.

Next we spent quite a bit of money traveling 100 miles round trip to services and even more to basketball games or other sport functions at other church areas.  Should that be deductible or not?  Now I'm down to about 2%.

Through all of this turmoil we had two visits from a pastor to counsel us, but no surprise since both my wife and I served in several areas such as assisting deacons, worship/song leader, transportation driver and most of the other folks, some of whom were tithing, didn't ask us if we tithed or not.

So we didn't really suffer from first tithe and second tithe was spent on the family vacation or on needy locals attending festivals, who appreciated it very much.

I guess my point is that by accident or by design, we didn't really tithe 10%.  In reality we gave regular offerings as we were able and no one complained as long as we didn't brag about our situation.  The other expenses such as travel were under our control, so I suppose that I cannot say that I suffered from the tithing teaching all that much.  But, I felt that God was disappointed in me.

It is still wrong to teach tithing and there are many victims of the system who did suffer so that WCG could build large buildings, fly private jets and send tracts and magazines around the world in a manner that seemed right to the human understanding that we all had.

I am glad that Bible Truths explains this so well and that we can discuss the error in a friendly manner and without any remaining guilty feelings.

There is so much of what we are coming to understand that seems plain and logical now, but we didn't see it that way in the past.  So, we need to be patient with new folks who are receiving their freedom for the first time as participants of B T or of the forum.  Pray that God will provide this freedom to more enlightened truth seekers every day.

indianabob

[Deborah-Leigh]

Giving to get is not the same as a cheerful giver!

Tithing teaches give to get and teaches if you don't give, you will be cursed. The fear that this false teaching propagates a deeper bondage into man made doctrines and idolatry to man made social systems, needs and creeds, within Babylon.

We are privileged to be out of Her the HARLOT that will fall and great will be her fall.

We are privileged to be enabled to be "cheerful givers!" There is S-O much to G-I-V-E! A smile. An encouragement. A word of direction or edification. Time. Effort. Love. Care. Honesty. Tenderness. Patience. Peace. Kindness.............................

Peace be to you

Arcturus

[SandyFla]

I just heard it in church today. The pastor even mentioned that some people give 90% and live on 10%. I'd like to meet that person!

Sandy

[Grateful]

O, Arcturus....that is JUUUSST BEAUTIFUL !! I quote you here:

Posted on: October 11, 2007, 11:25:32 AMPosted by: Arcturus
We are privileged to be enabled to be "cheerful givers!" There is S-O much to G-I-V-E! A smile. An encouragement. A word of direction or edification. Time. Effort. Love. Care. Honesty. Tenderness. Patience. Peace. Kindness.............................

Thank you for sharing that with us!   

Linda

[sonofone]

The church is now really big on seed and harvest now.That is to say that we must plant a financial seed in order to reap a financial harvest.It is also not enough to plant a seed but you must plant it in good ground which in most cases means your local church or to your local man of God or preacher. I for one like giving financially,I'm not rich or even well off,thank God I'm not poor either. I just like giving. What do you guys make of sowing financial seeds? I notice no one here talks about money and giving,yet it takes money to accomplish most anything in this life. I give right now at the church I attend and have mixed feelings about it. I'm beginning to wonder if my money might not be better disbursed to a more worthy cause. Would like some feedback on what you guys think about the question and on giving financially as a whole. Thanks

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello sonofone

You share and then ask : I give right now at the church I attend and have mixed feelings about it. I'm beginning to wonder if my money might not be better disbursed to a more worthy cause. Would like some feedback on what you guys think about the question and on giving financially as a whole.

James 1 : 27 External religious worship, religion as it is expressed in outward acts, that is pure and unblemished in the sight of God the Father is this: to visit and help and care for the orphans and widows intheir affliction and need, and to keep oneself unspotted and uncontaminated from the world.



I believe giving any support to Hypocrites, Snakes or devils is like giving the keys of the blood bank to Dracula.

Peace to you

Arcturus

[DuluthGA]

Hi Sonofone,

1Tim 5: 8    Now if anyone is not providing for his own, and especially his family, he has disowned the faith, and is worse than an unbeliever. [CLNT]

BTW, being a widow in Christ that is not getting rich, now six years into caring for her father at her home.... although I am not necessarily considered afflicted but could be considered needful...I DO accept cashier's checks and money orders.

Hope this helps with determining how to primarily spend your money.

[Kat]

I found some of Ray's emails that have to do with giving.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1889.0.html ------

I know you do not believe in tithing but do you at least believe in giving to the church?

John

Dear John:

If you mean by "the church" that international body that calls themselves Christian, and that the Bible labels "MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT, MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH"  (Rev. 17:5), and the one that God say: "Come OUT OF HER My people that ye be NOT partakers of her SINS..." (Rev. 18:4),  then I would say, "NO," as far as I am concerned.

God be with you,

Ray

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1027.0.html -------

Dear K & B T:
God isn't blessing me because I don't give ten percent of my annual salary to some two-faced lying hypocrite who teaches a physical gospel of worldliness and heresy?  Give me a break.  God does not bless anyone for doing such stupid and unscriptural evils, but rather He CHASTENS us if we support the priests of Baal and the Great Whore of Christian Babylon.  It is YOU who need to take heed--you have been warned.

May God open your blinded eyes,
Ray

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1361.0.html -----

Dear Kwabena:
You do not owe a tithe of your money to ANYONE. You are to present your entire life to serve God, and to spend your own money wisely helping others as you are about. Do not give you money to any religious man, unless you desire to do so on your own. It is NOT a command of God for believers to "tithe" their salaries to some church or to some man.

God be with you,
Ray

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4289.msg32827.html#msg32827 -----

God inspires a few people to give to our ministry on a regularly basis, and for these we are thankful, but we don't take salaries and therefore spend only what comes in. I'm sorry, but I do not believe in my heart of hearts that those denominations who spend tens of millions of dollars on huge buildings and grounds, honor God anymore than we do with our little bible-truths.com ministry. As I have said in the past regarding the giant incomes of many churches:  "Never have so many accomplished so little with so much"!!

    God be with you,
    Ray

[sonofone]

Thanks for the levity,Diane,and Arcturus  I do tend to stay on the uptight side of life. I am also not dismissing the truth in what you both shared as well. To you Kat as I thought about your post, I nearly wept. I just sat there realizing what a labor of love you bestow on all of us here giving us the best information you can provide to each and every post.I appreciate you so much dear sister. Thank you so much LADIES !! GOD BLESS!