Fact versus Truth or two sided swordmanship

[Beloved]

This is a bit of a carry over to Joe's response to the email to Ray on the Church and where they are missing the meanings and true doctrines written in the Word

On my commutes I sometimes listen to Babylonian radio and am frequently amazed and often saddened by what they say to the world about Christ's doctrines. 

I do not want this topic to be a "orthodox religion bashing" rather I wanted to also focus on the errors and the verses that show the true path.

My example

On the radio there was whole half hour show dedicated to this topic. Apparently some Christian publishing company has recently published a book that was written by a professing atheist. 

Now as part of the promotion, they are even inviting him to various churches to speak to the congregations. They discovered him when they were using the' secret shopper model' to send people and look what is being said and what things were deemed offensive to to these so called church goers. 

Do you believe this?          ....well of coarse we have all seen this sort of bizarr behavior.    

This guy is suppose to be helping these Christian folk learn how to talk and act towards people like him. He posits that most church goers do not even know what an Atheist is or what they even believe?  duhhh    (this last statement has an element of truth...they are dumb sheep because their hired shepards are not feeding them)

Facts:
They are trying to align their activities so that they do not offend those in the world. These are the very ones that deny the existence of God, totally reject His authority and they are looking to him for advice?

They bring these people into their 'house and expose their lambs to the false and deceptive teachings.

They lie even to the atheist who they bring in ....because deep down they 'hate' them and will enjoy seeing them on a rotisserie for the rest of eternity.

They promote these ideas over the radio and blogs so even more people than these pitiful congregations will be also effected and so spread the manure.
   

Truth: Not just my opinion..... but the Word

Col 2:8  Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

2Pe 3:17  Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own steadfastness.

1Jo 3:13  Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you

Heb 1:9  Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Col 4:6  Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.

Mat 5:13  Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savor, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

1Pe 2:9  But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should show forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light:

Isa 5:20  Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

2Jo 1:10  If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him Godspeed:

Tit 1:11  Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.

Hope you can share some similar examples from things that you have come across.  Think of it as a sort of a sword practice....

Beloved

[rjsurfs]

Hi Beloved,

Very interesting... one thing that made me smile though is when you said:

On my commutes I sometimes listen to Babylonian radio and am frequently amazed and often saddened by what they say to the world about Christ’s doctrines.

I do that too!  And I know we live within a county or two of one another and might be listening to some of the same stuff.  I honestly don't know why I listen to what I do on AM 1160... however, I often say "Know what you believe and why you believe it... and likewise, know what you don't believe and why you don't believe it".

Also what I have noticed in every "Christian" broadcast, no matter when I'm listening, that particular month they are facing their worst financial downfall and need everyone to support them "prayerfully and financially"... "for time and for eternity".  Not to mention all of the trinkets, books, pamphlets, and junk they are selling.

But yet you hear in the voices of those who call in and give testimony that they put their faith and trust in these people.  It is very sad and often makes me a little angry at those running the show.

So I may have bashed a little... I better include a verse for you.   

2Co 2:17 For we are not as the majority, who are peddling the word of God, but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God in Christ, are we speaking.


Bobby

[Kat]

Hi Beloved,

It seems like what you are showing is that the church is striving to blend in and be excepted by the world   
The church, This guy is suppose to be helping these Christian folk learn how to talk and act towards people like him, a professing atheist.

2Co 6:17  Therefore come out from among them and be separated, says the Lord, and do not touch the unclean thing.


dressed in extremely low rider jeans, they also had on flimsy and revealing tops.....not one person said anything ....the pastor even applauded

1Ti 2:9  In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel...

Eph 4:14  so that we no longer may be infants, tossed to and fro and carried about by every wind of doctrine, in the dishonesty of men, in cunning craftiness, to the wiles of deceit.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[gmik]

Babylon wants to look JUST like the world and they want to ACT like the world.

Divorce rates, lavish lifestyles, entertainment, fashion - not much to distinguish church/world is there?  Blending in is right!

and yet I don't want to dress like the Amish!

[gmik]

Beloved how cool!

Answer w/ scripture!!!  Simple and to the point.  I love it.

[Gregor]

Beloved and Bobby,
Do you see something amiss in condemning "babylon" for resourcing an atheist's point of view, yet you yourselves resource babylonian radio?

Perhaps we can all learn that in warfare it is good to know your enemy, but know first that the enemy we are called to put to death isn't babylon, but the beast within ourselves.

[Kat]

Hi Gregor,

I think the point that Beloved was trying to make was that Babylon conforms to this world.  Then we recognize that Babylon is the same as the world.

Rom 12:2  And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, in order to prove by you what is that good and pleasing and perfect will of God.

Jas 4:4 ...Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Gregor]

Greetings Kat,
Thanks for your reply. I always appreciate your input.

John 1:23 Now when He was in Jerusalem at the Passover, during the feast, many believed in His name when they saw the signs which He did. 24 But Jesus did not commit Himself to them, because He knew all men, 25 and had no need that anyone should testify of man, for He knew what was in man.

This verse seems to be describing "babylon" perfectly. It could also apply to me personally in many ways.

John 9:40 Then some of the Pharisees who were with Him heard these words, and said to Him, "Are we blind also?"
41 Jesus said to them, "If you were blind, you would have no sin; but now you say, 'We see.' Therefore your sin remains.

I mostly see the spirit of pride in the pharisees statement - "We see." They were feasting, possibly with pride in their hearts in keeping the law and setting them apart from the "world" or "babylon," or so they thought. But nothing can purify man's sinfully wicked heart except Jesus.

John 5:39, 40
39You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. 40But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

Playing with a two-edged sword can kill in more ways than one, by turning against the one who weilds it, to say the least. I guess the question for me is where to draw the line when it comes to being "in" the world but not "of" the world. For example, a tatoo is only as significant as the intent of my heart for getting it in the first place. In the end it will perish with my flesh. Likewise, not getting one wont change the heart. As long as I'm in the flesh sin remains, whether it be outward and visible, or inward and only seen by the Father/Son.

I agree with gmik, I don't want to look like the Amish either. But foremost, on the inside, I definately don't want to look like the Pharisees. I want to say "I see", but I'd rather say "I believe" from the heart. This discussion has been very eye opening to me. Thanks!

In Christ,
G.