predestined

[mharrell08]

It raises a question of a predistend/predetermined life, Why would an ESCAPE  "so that you will be able to endure it "  from God need to be necessary.   This and a few other Scriptures do stump our Spirits that have not yet grasp the knowledge from the Holy Spirit.

Why do you suppose that an "escape" is not part of the predetermined life? Again, if He has planned the end from the beginning, why do you suppose he has not planned the middle? The reason that the Lord know how to rescue the godly from temptation is because he planned it all from the beginning. Everything was planned from the beginning. That's what Predetermining is, planned from or "predetermined" from the beginning. Joe had a great section from the LOF 4 which when I read it again and referred the scriptures, it seemed pretty plain to me. It sounds like maybe we may have a different definition of predetermination. But as you read in the above line, that's what I believe predetermine to mean. That's all I can say.


Marques

[pylady]

Hi Rodger,

I love your example of a child (us) learning to ride a bike.  Can we carry it a bit further.  The parent (God) has given the child his destination (saythe park at the end of the street), provided all the equipment the child needs, the bike, helmet, training wheels (for us circumstances and causes).  The parent walks along beside the child all the while, encouranging him and helping him along the way.  The child has faith that he can do it because of his parents encouragement and teaching, and also because he knows his older brother already learned to ride his bike and went all the way to the park, and is waiting for him there.   And with all that the child may still tire along the way, so the parent provides an escape so he may be able to endure it, by perhaps letting him rest along the way, or pushing the bike along for awhile.   When the child has rested awhile the parent lets him take over again.  Of course, this is all done under the guidance of the parent, the parent has predetermined the whole experience and the destination.  BUT it is the child who has to do the pedaling, has to go thru the motions, so it is his experience, and he is the one who is learning to ride the bike.

Thanks, Rodger.  This has helped me get a clearer understanding of predestination.  That's what's so great about this forum.  Someone elses viewpoint, and even their questions often help me get a clearer focus on a point.

         God's blessing to you,

                Cindy   

[Falconn003]

Hi Cindy

Wonderfully put...    it never entered my nogin to go a little further with it.

I do really like your analogy and copied of course if i may have your permission to use it in my study notes.

I agree to the added view points each of us brings to this like minded FELLOWSHIP in SPIRIT of Jesus the Christ.

Peace and understanding
Rodger

[mharrell08]

It raises a question of a predistend/predetermined life, Why would an ESCAPE  "so that you will be able to endure it "  from God need to be necessary.   This and a few other Scriptures do stump our Spirits that have not yet grasp the knowledge from the Holy Spirit.

Why do you suppose that an "escape" is not part of the predetermined life? Again, if He has planned the end from the beginning, why do you suppose he has not planned the middle? The reason that the Lord know how to rescue the godly from temptation is because he planned it all from the beginning. Everything was planned from the beginning. That's what Predetermining is, planned from or "predetermined" from the beginning. Joe had a great section from the LOF 4 which when I read it again and referred the scriptures, it seemed pretty plain to me. It sounds like maybe we may have a different definition of predetermination. But as you read in the above line, that's what I believe predetermine to mean. That's all I can say.


Marques

Since i do not know you that well, i will stick to the " No comment line for now".

By the way i was making a statement not possing a question.  Notice the ". " at the end there.

Rodger

I'm sorry...I thought "it raises a question" was the form of a question and not a statement as you say. As well as "How FAITH, overcomenth, focus, hearinig his voice, examples, patterns, obediance...ect. play determining factors too our predistined positions is a concept unbeknownst to me thus far." I thought with this last statement, it was something you wanted help with to understand. Again, I apologize.

[pylady]

Hi Rodger,

Of course I don't mind.  And I hope you and others on the forum don't mind when I use your and their comments and insights to meditate on and to use in my study of the Scriptures to further my understanding and gain insight I would not have reached on my own. 

Just something I noticed last night after reading this topic and then doing some bible reading.  Was reading Hebrews 3:12,13

  "Take care, brethren, lest there should be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart, in falling away from the living God.  But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called today, lest any one of you be hardened by the deceitfulness of  sin."

Since I had just read this topic on predestination when i read this verse the first thing that popped into my mind was "why is He telling us this when He knows exactly what we are going to do-He has predetermined it?"

Then I remembered this Scripture 

2Tim 3:16  "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;"

and thought Hebrews 3 is scripture so God is telling us to take care and encourage one another, etc. because He is teaching us how we should act and think, teaching us right from wrong.  These scriptures are how He teaches us right from wrong.

Gen2:16,17  "And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it, you shall surely die."

God already knew what adam and eve would do, but if God had not warned our first parents not to eat of the tree, maybe they would still have eaten from it, since it's fruit was desirable, but they would not have know it was wrong.  God had to tell them what was good and what was evil, and the consequences of evil.

Are all these words of God commands to us - take care lest, encourage one another lest, you shall not eat? 

Guess what I'm trying to say is God already knows what we are going to do since He predestined it, but when He warns us and admonishes us it is for our sakes so we look at our actions and recognize the good and evil and learn from it.

Does this make any sense.  Makes sense in my mind, but when I try to put it in writing it might just sound like goobely gock!  not everyone has Ray's gift with words!  So this is just some things I was thinking, in no way any attempt to teach anything.  Corrections welcome


Thanks for listening. 

            Cindy

[mharrell08]

Great response Cindy...I couldn't agree more. The wording was just right by the way so that's nothing to second guess either. :-)

[Falconn003]

hi Cindy

Does this make any sense.  Makes sense in my mind, but when I try to put it in writing it might just sound like goobely gock!

You are not in that boat alone, These Scriptures you posted do not only makes alot of sense, they and your insightful wording creates wisdom where there is none..........


Peace and understanding be a blessing to those who read and believe.
Rodger

[kweli]

I wonder why someone would continue to argue or seek some sort of contradiction after a thread like this. I mean I too used to object to predestination until I saw the many verses.

Thanks a lot for that Cindy. Your gobbledygook is somebody's treasure. Even if you had tried to will it to be gobbledygook.

All Glory to Him (twas very evident in this thread)