majority vs manority

[winner08]

A friend and I are always discussing Mr. Rays teachings. I tell her what I learned and she comments on it. For example, I was telling her that we aren't saved until the very end , when after were judged and sentence and are purified with the fire of God, and turn from physical to spirit. Then we are made into the likeness of God Himself. Now we are saved. No she says. She said All you have to do is call on and believe that Christ died for our sins and we are saved. Then she said millions believe this. Then I said just because the many believe in something doesn't mean it's true.I gave the example of the 12 disciples. They were only a few who knew the truth in the beginning. The majority didn't believe. I told her all of the greatest people on earth were of the minority not the majority. So when anyone tells you that, that is what most people believe, don't believe it.

                                        God bless you and yours

                                           Darren

[Craig]

Darren,

You are just spinning your wheels.  You can argue until the second coming and you won't change her mind.  What I normally do in a case as this is I give them the link to bible truths or print out some of the articles and leave it at that.  Perhaps God will put it in her heart to actually separate scripture from doctrine.  Only then will the onion peel open.

Most all of us on this forum do not have a firm enough grasp on the truth to be a good verbal witness or teacher anyway.  But we can all be a strong witness by the way we live our lives.

Craig

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Darren,

In Christ's own words;

Mat 22:14  For many are called, but few are chosen.

Joh 6:44  No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh 6:65  And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Joh 15:16  Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Peace,

Joe

[KristaD]

Well, it sounds like you told her all that you could. I've been there too with people, frustrating isn't it? Speak when He tells you to, and stop when He tells you you're finished. He has a reason when He has us speak the truth to them and He has just as much reason when He keeps us quiet. It's hardest for me when He tells me not to talk, lol, but I know He has it all worked out and at the appointed time He'll open their eyes. God bless you and guide you.

[gmik]

Hi.  Good posts!

Usually, in my circle, no one ever asks a thing!!!!  I have been putting "key" scriptures in my signature on my e mails, and no one has yet to comment.  They are comfortable in their beliefs, and think I have jumped off the edge.  They really don't want to separate scripture from doctrine bcz bottom line is they believe in their doctrine/pastor/cbn more!

[Kat]

Yep that 's true for me too Gena. 
The few times I've mentioned anything about this Truth to anyone, it was so far beyond what they knew from church, that they have just decided to leave this subject alone around me.  I think they are comfortable being with the many/majority, not willing to hear anything not approved by their 'Christain' contingent/majority.   They embrace the darkness and think there is safety in numbers.

1Th 5:2  For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3  While they are saying, "Peace and safety!" then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape.
1Th 5:4  But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief;

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hi Kat

You talk about labor pains.  Well I saw it happen in someone just today! 

An elderly man and his friend came into my shop.  Those who know me know I have my books, Bibles, notes on my table during the day.

Anyway, back to the labor pains. The man asked me what Bible I use. I explained that I refer to many Bibles and named a few...this seemed to trigger him into a tirade of explaining all about Lucifer and Adam and Eve being perfect and and and...Poor chap! I knew arguing was pointless. But agreeing with him, well that is our perogative to withhold.  So...realising the barriers, I asked him to look at my Bible and opened it at Isaiah in which there is a magnificent foot note explanation.

He and his friend poured over the opened Bible reading what I had pointed out.  I could see the shock, pain and fear..... I could not show them Ray Smiths teaching. That would have been like a cesarean and they were in no mood to take any pain killing injections! It was a now moment and Rays teachings were in my book case far to far away from this crisis to try to retrieve for them anyway. Here is what they read:

"The Hebrew for this expression - "light-bringer"  or "shining one" - is translated ":Lucifer in The Latin Vulgate, and is thus translated in the King James Version.  But because of the association of that name with Satan, it is NOT NOW USED IN THIS AND OTHER TRANSLATIONS.  Some students feel that the application of the name Lucifer to Satan, in spite of the long and confident teaching to that effect, IS ERRONEOUS.  The application of the name to Satan has existed since the third century A D and is based on the SUPPOSITION that Luke 10 : 18 is an explanation of Isa. 14 : 12, which many authorities BELIEVE IS NOT TRUE.  "Lucifer, " the light-bringer is the Latin equivalent of the Greek word "Phosphorous," which is used as a title of Christ in 2 Pet 1: 19 and corresponds to the name "radiant and brilliant Morning Star" in Rev 22 : 16, a name Jesus called Himself. This passage here in Isa 14:13 CLEARLY APPLIES TO THE KING OF BABYLON.  The city of Babylon was in the midst of a very fertile area, and it would have seemed reasonable to suppose that, regardless of what happened to the population, the region would always furnish pasturage for flocks. But Isaiah said it would become the possession of wild animals and would be covered with "marshes and pools of water. " This is how that prophecy was literally fulfilled: after Babylon was taken, the whole area around the city was put under water from neglect of the canals and dikes of the Euphrates River. It became stagnant "marshes and pools of water" among ruins haunted by wild animals, proclaiming to any who might see it that "surely, as the Lord has thought and planned, so shall it come to pass. Isa 14:24 Caps mine to present emphasis.

I am not trying to ridicule this man that the labour pain of the truth tearing down his false beliefs caused him pain. I pointed out that to believe that Lucifer is Satan is to believe God is a fool and impotent. When that connection struck him, he went straight into denial but had no basis for defence against what he has believed to be the truth which is actually the error and the lie. I simply observed the horror and can empathise with the revelation of nakedness and terror that briefly showed across his face.

As he paid for the goods he was purchasing he asked me where God was. I said everywhere. I explained that God is Spirit. Again it appeared to me as a mother, that he lapsed into an intense like labour pain so deep, as he repeated what he had falsly believed which was that God is A Spirit. No I reassured him. God is not A Spirit. GOD IS SPIRIT. Again, to my mothers eyes it seemed like labour pains tweekied and a fleeting shadow of pain etched again across his face. He just could not stand in the same spot at the same time and seemed like he wanted to jump out of his skin.

He said he would be back again....I wonder? The wonderful thing about all this is that he said he does not go to Church or belong to one as he seemed to dash out of my shop telling me on his hurried way out that he had to be somewhere....

Peace to you Sister

Arcturus

[winner08]

Hello everybody, Thanks for all of your post. It's wonderfull. This friend of mind ( the same one I made this subject about). Anyways, today she came up to me and started talking about the subject of being saved. Well this went on for a very long time. She tell me, then I would tell her. Well doing this time she interjected something like, well you believe everything that guy Ray Tell's you. I said no., anything Ray teaches, he always shows chapter and virus in the bible. I said it's not what Ray teaches it's what the scripture teaches.  Then, what she said next floored me. She said she went to Rays site and looked into it. Of course she said it was all a lie. Point being that she took the time to look Ray's teachings up. If she believes or not is not the point. It's the fact that she was reading Ray's teachings. This reminded me that, that's all I can do is plant the seed. God takes it from there. I remembered when my uncle planted my seed. It was almost 30yrs. ago. It took 20 yrs to sprout. All in God's time, not ours.

                                          God bless you and yours

                                                Darren

[roundbellygroove]

OK, this is an interesting topic.

I have noticed that its is easier to explain scriptural truths to people that have little to no bible knowledge than to someone who has been "churched" all their lives. 

For example...I have spoken to an Agnostic, a Wicca, and a discouraged christian about scriptural truths that are commonly shared here on the forums. For the most part they all respond to them well. Also in discussions I have noticed that past experiences in churches was the reason why they went astray. It is appears to me that the less "church" a person has, the more responsive they are to these scriptural truths, BUT on the "flip side of that coin"...The longer they have been in church(regardless of denomination) or have had some kind of bible college\seminary back ground; YOU MIGHT AS WELL BE PICKING A FIGHT!
I no longer discuss what I have learned here to the common christian.(unless will by God somehow!?!)
I rather share my testimony of how God is always good to me and how well he takes care of me regardless of my circumstances. I have a better responce that way and save the bible truths for someone whom is truly searching for life's answers. They are the ones who are usually well receptive to Gods good word.

roundbelly

[UncleBeau]

Proverbs 28:18
   
18.) Whoso walketh uprightly shall be saved: but he that is perverse in his ways shall fall at once.


Matthew 10:22
    22.)And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.


Matthew 24:13
13.)But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.


Mark 13:13
13.)And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.


Mark 16:16   
16.)He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.


John 10:9
9.) I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

Acts 2:21
21.)And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Romans 10:13
13.)For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

According to the Scriptures, you must do these things and you shall be saved. But which ones? the easy ones, the hard ones, all of them, etc.? Should I get my head dunked in the pool or God won't save me? Most people would think that they can call upon his name before "unto the end", right? I would think "many" believe that. Remember God is ONE and His Word is ONE. If you have done one of these, you've done them all.

I recommend you listen to Ray's Audio about getting saved. I think if you go to the audio section it's toward the bottom of the page, correct?

Anyway, I hope posting these verses helped.

-Beau

[phyllis]

Thanks Beau: All of y'all post helps tremendously. Thanks again. Y'all really want to hear something weird? I have a friend that says smoking's isn't a sin. I try to tell her that anything that defiles Gods temple is a sin. (Temple being the human body). She's one of these people who knows everything. Anyways I ask her what she means. She said smoking in itself it's not a sin, it how you smoke. I asked her what does that mean. She said If you smoke like a chain smoker your abusing your body. But if you smoke every 20 to 30 Min's. it"s not a sin, because your not abusing your body. This is  person who believe"s that Jesus doesn"t  have a father.

                                               God bless you and yours.
                                                     
                                                    Darren

[Matt]

Phyliss,
I understand your frustration.
I wouldn't be to condemning of your friend though, I would focus more on the good qualities and telling her that you love her. 
She is a smoker, she knows it is bad for he, she knows you do not approve, and she will quit when/if she is ready.

Anyway, don't we all eat/drink things on occasion that are considered "poison" for our bodies. I have this problem with cookies

Matt

[winner08]

Yes Matthew, we all indulge once in a while. But I wasn't putting her down. I made the comment about the smoking so we all can relate to the denial factor.  trying to justified things in our own mind. that we know isn't good for us.

                                    Thank you, and bless you and yours.

                                                         Darren

[KristaD]

No to get too OT here but, Roundbelly, I have noticed the exact same thing! I usually speak quite openly to people with no religious background or those that have been put off by churches and what I say is weel received; but when I have spoken to believers, forget it I've been called a heretic and blasphemer etc..
PS. Darren, I got what you were saying

[Matt]

Are Phyllis and winner08 the same Darren, or do I need just need to finish my coffee?

[mharrell08]

Are Phyllis and winner08 the same Darren, or do I need just need to finish my coffee?

Dude, I was thinking the same thing! Like did he switch is username or something?


Marques

[UncleBeau]

Are Phyllis and winner08 the same Darren, or do I need just need to finish my coffee?

Dude, I was thinking the same thing! Like did he switch is username or something?


Marques

Phyllis is Darren's wife. They both use the same computer, I think he mentioned that....and I'm assuming they use whichever user name is logged in at the time; but maybe it's just something they don't pay attention to.

[winner08]

Phyllis and Darren are husband and wife. We read all the same post and usually write what we are thinking about, Winner 08 is Darren and Phyllis Is Phyllis. One again we're sorry for the confusion. I hope this clears this matter up once and for all.                       

                                           Peace to you and yours

                                            Phyllis and Darren.

[mharrell08]

No problem...it was actually pretty funny but no big deal 

[Matt]