Ronald Weinland and the-end.com

[mark_from_oz]

Anyone read this guys' book? He thinks he is one of the two prophesized "two witnesses".

There are similarities to what is taught on Bible-Truths, with the notable exception of Universal Reconciliation, and the fact that he thinks himself a prophet.

[mark_from_oz]

I did some reading elsewhere and found out he runs the Church of God.

[eggi]

I don't know about this man, but I seriously doubt that "there are similiratities to what is taugh on Bible-Truths". There are indeed notable expections as you point out. As Rays says, if they lie once, then don't bother to read the rest.

God bless you,
Eirik

[gmik]

I have never heard of him, and two of my kids attended the official Church of God college,   Lee University, in Cleveland TN.  Must be a different C of G. But I have to agree w/ Eirik-


Altho when I first came to BT I used to try to find other sites and writers "just like Ray" cuz I was so afraid of being "out there in goofy doctrine land".  Now, after a few years I really don't bother.  Ray's teaching w/ the Bible will keep me fed for a looonnngggg time!!

[mark_from_oz]

I've been visiting BT.com and emailing ray for a few years now... The similarities I reffered to were:

1. RW teaches that Compulsory Tithing is spiritually corrupt.

2. That Man has no immortal Soul.

3. That a benevolent God will not torture Billions of people for Eternity.

So in that respect there are similarities between what is taught by him and what is on BT's.com

RW fails to consider the declaration in Genisis that God will make man(kind) in His image and likeness. He also forgets that it is appointed for man to die once, not twice as he proclaims.

A Google ad from somewhere caught my attention and I followed it, it ended up on his site and I skimmed his "Free" booklet on "The End". I believe that we need to remain open-minded to the Truth from whereever it may appear, as our spirit will confirm what that the truth is. I will not just visit BT's.com alone but read all kinds of material and then examine the Bible to back up what I read.

To follow Ray blindly would be just as bad as following the Theological Churches from whence we came.

I am not suggesting that anyone here does that either, just putting my thoughts forward.

Blessings


Mark

[Craig]

Mark,

Lets say Joe and I both make a batch of brownies. 

Joe puts eggs in his.....so do I.
Joe uses sugar............so do I.
Joe uses fudge...........so do I.
Joe uses flour.............so do I.
Joe uses butter..........so do I.

My brownies have a special ingredient,  Joe's does not.  My special ingredient is a pinch of.....horse manure

Who's brownies are you going to eat?

Craig

[kweli]

Much as I agree with your analogy, I'm not so sure about that.

2 Timothy 2:15
Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman who needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

How are we to rightly divide the word of truth if we stick to one ingredient?

[Craig]

The truth is a hard thing to come by.  Do we search for a better truth, a different truth?  When you find the unencumbered truth you better hang on or be tossed to and fro by every sweet sounding doctrine. Paul had truth in his teaching, how long after he left a congregation did deceit creep in?  I've spent alot of time looking at other doctrines and teaching, but if you find a pinch of horse manure then you better move on lest you acquire a taste for it.

Just my opinion
Craig

[zvezda]

emails from Ray:

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7126.0.html

Ray...Please tell me what you have to say about Ronald Weinland. He states that Him and His Wife are the 2 Witnesses God taked about in the book of Revelations. He declares the Seventh Seal was opened April 17, 2008 and we have entered 3.5 years of tribulation and at the end of 3.5 years...Jesus will come back to earth with 144,000 to reign with Christ for 1000 years. Listening to him...I'm thinking he is associated with the same church you can out of...World Wide Church of God years back. That is why I'm asking if you know him, and how you would respond to the above statements he's making in the name of God.
         
        Thanks for your teachings,
        Jim
         

        Dear Jim:   Yes, I would be happy to give you my thoughts on Ronald Weinland's ministry and prophecies. In fact, I believe I can sum it all up very nicely in just three words:  What a CROCK!
        God be with you,
        Ray


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7097.0.html

Mr Smith I'm reading a book called 2008 God's final witness by Ronald Weinland. I believe he's connected with the Armstrong's. Any way In this book this man claims to be one of the two end time witness. On page 16 The next step. He says "it is now with boldness and confidence and great clarity that I give to you what God has given to me. I am to announce, through God's direct revelation, that I am one of those two witnesses. The other witness will be revealed to the world during the time of the great tribulation, within the final three and one half yrs.of mans era. Is this possible, can this man be one of Gods last two witnesses? He also says that the 7th seal is being opening right now. In fact this man says we will know he is for real, because 08 will be the end of this age. if it doesn't happen we will know he's a false prophet. Anyways is this something we should we be worrying about or not.

                                                           Thank you for taking the time to read this.



Dear Darren:  Not only is this something that we should not be "worrying about," it is something we should not be reading about, or thinking about, or even giving a passing glance about.  I am just amazed at the amount of this over-the-top grand-standing NONSENSE that people promote in their insatiable lust for praise, recognition, and worship.  I sure hope we have a giant book-burning when Jesus establishes His Kingdom on this earth.
God be with you,
Ray

[Robin]

I was alone for 15 years and searched everywhere for others who knew truth. I drove hundreds of miles to visit places when I heard something on the radio that sounded "similar". It usually took about 5 minutes to catch a lie and I ran fast and didn't look back. Our shepherd doesn't lie. When I found BT I was a sceptic. I was disappointed so many times that I was not going to allow myself to be disappointed again. I came in looking for the lie. I looked hard, but I couldn't find one. Ray proves everything he teaches with thousands of scripture. I am not saying there aren't others out there who may be teaching truth, but I haven't found anyone yet. I don't step over lies to listen to the voice of a stranger.

John 10
1"I tell you the truth, the man who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. 2The man who enters by the gate is the shepherd of his sheep. 3The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. 5But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice." 6Jesus used this figure of speech, but they did not understand what he was telling them.

John 8:44
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.


http://bible-truths.com/student.htm

I quote between one and two THOUSAND Scriptures on my web-site

First of all, I don't have "followers." I do, however, have a large pile of e-mails sent by people thanking me for opening up their understanding of the Scriptures for the first time in their church-going lives. For once in their lives they don't have to agonize over whether Aunt Martha, daughter Crystal, or Grandpa Jones are frying in some fabled eternal hellhole of fire. And although I am a priest in training (I Peter 2:9), I am not a prophet.

The truth is available. I am not the first or only to see and understand it.

[gmik]

Excellent posts!! There we have it!!

[mark_from_oz]

Mark,

Lets say Joe and I both make a batch of brownies. 

Joe puts eggs in his.....so do I.
Joe uses sugar............so do I.
Joe uses fudge...........so do I.
Joe uses flour.............so do I.
Joe uses butter..........so do I.

My brownies have a special ingredient,  Joe's does not.  My special ingredient is a pinch of.....horse manure

Who's brownies are you going to eat?

Craig

Craig, If I knew what each of the batch of brownies contained I wouldn't need to eats yours. The point of visiting other sites that have similar (or even opposing) views is to taste them. So, to follow your analogy, if I did not know what each contained I would taste both. Though my tongue would be subjective in its appraisal, my spirit would hopefully not be.

1Thes 5:21  "Test all things, hold fast the good."

I believe Ray has a great understanding of the Word, provided to Him by God. Ray has not yet expounded on all topics, I may be researching a topic that he has not covered and stumble upon someone else's viewpoint on the scriptures take on the matter. Having now a greater foundational understanding of the Word that I once did, I will be a lot further along in rightly dividing the words being proclaimed by others.

One of my core principles in rightly dividing the Word is: Scripture never contradicts, only sometimes appears to. AND Scripture will always witness itself. Another principle is: When a scripture is quoted, go see if that is what is ACTUALLY said.

Blessings

Mark.

[kweli]

I'm sold. No wait, I'm bought with a price.

Rightly dividing is sorted for me.
And yes, M.G. is right. The bible says the sheep run away from a strangers voice. And in my understanding of English and Scripture, stranger's voice could be a voice that is strange from Jesus' voice.

My suggestion to you Mark is maybe read the bible (since everything we need to know is in there) and wherever you stumble, ask in the forum, the mods or Ray directly. The good thing about this approach is, as Paul always said, Ray laid the foundation. Somebody else might put the wrong mortar or wrong size bricks on that foundation.

Hope you realize I'm not contesting your belief.

All Glory to Him

[Roy Monis]

The truth is a hard thing to come by.  Do we search for a better truth, a different truth?  When you find the unencumbered truth you better hang on or be tossed to and fro by every sweet sounding doctrine. Paul had truth in his teaching, how long after he left a congregation did deceit creep in?  I've spent alot of time looking at other doctrines and teaching, but if you find a pinch of horse manure then you better move on lest you acquire a taste for it.

Just my opinion
Craig

Hi! Craig

Well said brother, I liked the horse manure bit it tasted ??

I have been to various sites and judged them on Jesus' advice: "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will know them by their fruits." (Matt.7:19,20)

Before Ray I tried SDR and the fruit was bad, they believed and practiced Saturday Sabbath observance.

Then I tried Mike Vinson and found the fruit very similar but grossly lacking in all major points. Going through his material I noticed a gross neglect in his show of respect for his Creator God. By that I mean his use of capitalization in his writings which to me was disgraceful.

Then I dropped on Ray's teachings by accident and downloaded a few of his writings and found a profound difference in his meticulous display of respect, obedience, humility, reverence and accuracy in relation to the Scriptures. I challenge anyone on this forum or outside to download a single paper authored by Ray to find a single reference to his Creator or the Word of God the Scriptures where this is left neglected. This then to me is the genuine fruit, the good fruit which is edible and beneficial.

The rest of the sites, well unless they match up to this criteria are destined for the garbage bin and those that do are worth following. But having said that, once you have the good fruit in one basket why be greedy and look in your neighbours basket for some of his because you'll only end up with too much, a double helping.

When you have the one that the Spirit in you says "That's it" be content and stick with it. He is always right, that inner HELPER because that's what His job is. I don't look anywhere else now, I'm content.

Just my opinion.


God bless you brother in our joint walk in Christ. 

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy UK     

[KristaD]

I agree with you Mark.

[Kent]

The truth is a hard thing to come by.  Do we search for a better truth, a different truth?  When you find the unencumbered truth you better hang on or be tossed to and fro by every sweet sounding doctrine. Paul had truth in his teaching, how long after he left a congregation did deceit creep in?  I've spent alot of time looking at other doctrines and teaching, but if you find a pinch of horse manure then you better move on lest you acquire a taste for it.

Just my opinion
Craig

You got that right! BTDT.
It took me a long time to reach this truth. Years. I am embarassed to say what I searched for and read, looking for this truth. Some of it was really off-the-wall stuff, trying to explain how God could "damn" anyone to "eternal hell".

If truth was a snake, it would have bit me.

[mark_from_oz]

I just want to say in concluding this thread that by my original post I was simply asking whether anyone else had read RW's book. It all went pear-shaped from there.

I was curious to see if others had seen the nonsense about him being one of the two witnesses. If I had found people to discuss it with intelligently I may have even asked about what their thoughts were on the similarities between RW, Ray, and the new Church of God. Clearly that would be taboo.

I was not trying to lead sheep astray or any such thing.

It would appear that I need to be careful in what I post. Not everyone is objective in their search for God's Truth. I may get in trouble for saying this, so be it...

Ray has a wonderfully gifted grasp of the Word of God, but you need to be careful not to regard Ray as the sole Oracle of God's Truth. Some here, I would say, successfully broke free of the single-mindedness of the Churches they were from only to adopt it again in blindly following Ray's teaching.

Follow Rays' Teaching in every area if you feel that is the right path, but do it while maintaining your objectivity and always, always go back to the Bible for verification.

This may, or may not be my last post here... we'll see.

Still smilin' at you all. 

Mark

[Craig]

Follow Rays' Teaching in every area if you feel that is the right path, but do it while maintaining your objectivity and always, always go back to the Bible for verification.

Absolutely, and who would argue that advice.  I don't know of any of the "old timers" here who do not follow this advice.  I'm not picking on you Mark, but I would like to have a nickel every time someone posts this. 

This forum is moderated in such a way as to not veer off into the land of speculations, half truth and opinions.  Sometimes we are successful and sometimes not.

I would suggest we all look over the 3 posts in the forum rules section, its good to remind ourselves of them and realize the moderators and members are not out to squash anyones search for God. 

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4558.0.html
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3614.0.html

Craig

[hillsbororiver]

Ray has a wonderfully gifted grasp of the Word of God, but you need to be careful not to regard Ray as the sole Oracle of God's Truth. Some here, I would say, successfully broke free of the single-mindedness of the Churches they were from only to adopt it again in blindly following Ray's teaching.

Follow Rays' Teaching in every area if you feel that is the right path, but do it while maintaining your objectivity and always, always go back to the Bible for verification.

Hi Mark,

You are not the first to offer this admonition, let me say that I doubt you will find anyone here (Ray and the moderators included) that believe Ray is "the sole Oracle of God's Truth" but what this Forum is all about is for those who have found his articles to be worthy of discussion to have a peaceful place to meet and share ideas and questions in regard to the thousands of pages on Bible truths.

If we want to debate every doctrine under the sun we are all able to do just that in the thousands of "free for all" debating Forums available online, there are more than a few who are members in good standing here who also seek to explore, argue, debate new age or traditional religious topics or just want to look at alternative interpretations, there is nothing wrong with that whatsoever. We just do not desire this Forum to be unfocused, disjointed or as a platform for would be teachers.

Everyone here is encouraged to do independant study of the Scriptures as well as verifying what Ray writes with your bible close at hand, if an error is found to be contained in any of the articles it is our obligation to present them and ask for clarification or retraction.

Peace,

Joe

[winner08]

Yes, Mark I read This book your speaking of. I found this Guy to be out there to say the least. I beleive he said 08 would be the year that this age would come to an end. Also that the 7th seal has been open. Well the yr. is not over with yet. But as the Bible says we will know if this guy is from God by the fruit he bears. If the age ends then we will know he was speaking the truth. If not we will know he just one in a long line of false prophets. btw I agree we should not follow Ray blindley but check out whatever he teaches in the Bible through scripture. Then make sure that scripture has another scripture backing the 1st one up. I know it's easyer said than done. If I'm not mistaken, Ray says don't take his word, check it out ourselves.

                                        Darren