Heb 10:26

[jakfr0s]

  Heb 10:26  For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more a sacrifice for sins,


  Hi all, I just got through reading, Despising the Word of God Biblestudy April 2008, and in it Ray says quote; " if you sin willfully, willingly, knowingly, wantingly after you have come to the knowledge of the truth, there is no more sacrifice for you (Heb. 10:26)."

  I dont completly understand this. I hear over and over people saying God is dealing with our sins one at a time and its a work in progress. It actually feels like He deals with our sins not just one at a time, but two or three at a time, maybe more.

  Maybe im wrong or misunderstanding Ray, but he also seems to be saying that if we continue to sin after we have come into the knowledge of truth, then we will be cut off.

   I guess my problem is Im still smoking cigarettes, willingly, wantingly, and knowingly. But Im also praying daily that I quit. I know God is in total control and im right where He wants me to be.

  I guess one could say Im lacking in faith in this area. Is it even possible, to be lacking in faith to conquer in one sin, but to be stronger in faith to conquer in another sin?

  I have to admit that the more I smoke the stronger the guilt and shame. Is one of the deciding factors for me to quit smoking going to be overwhelming guilt and shame? I mean is that how God, in part Judges us? I know grace (divine influence) and chastening has alot to do with it.

  Im not even sure I know exactly what is means to have knowledge of truth. I have an idea, but Im not a hundred percent sure. Im also not even sure I have such a knowledge.

  I hope Ive made sense, and I would really appreciate some insight into this cause its kinda confusing, and to be honest a bit discouraging.

              Your Friend in Christ, George D.   





   
 

[gmik]

Hi George.  I understand your dilemma.  I have no great words of wisdom for you.  I just wanted you to know you are not alone!  We all have our burdens whether it is smoking or whatever.

Is smoking a sin, or just an unhealthy habit??  Of course we all want to stop, but if we don't/can't then the Lord isn't allowing us to at the present time.  Just keep praying but don't beat yourself up spiritually about it.  We all keep trying to kick the beast off the throne!!

[AK4]

http://bible-truths.com/email16.htm#drinking

Try that link Patik.

Also i remember reading something Ray wrote saying about saying if you are feeling guilty about a something then thats the Spirit working in you to help you quit, but you wont quit whatever it is your doing until God wants you to stop.  (paraphrasing).

Also try to remember Patik---thats why we have Grace---ITS NOT POSSIBLE FOR ANY OF US TO BE SIN FREE!
Try reading Romans 7 & 8--especially Romans 7:14-20

Basically its saying you've been buried with Christ and sin, but our flesh still exists and even though I have my mind set on Christ and i try with all my being to do what he commands, this dang on flesh of minE(addictions or the like) keeps pulling to do what i HATE.  Now as long as I hate this particular sin and would whole-heartedly want to repent of this then its not you that is doing it so to speak.  You are going through a judgement and eventually you will get past that sin, God willing.

So you might not be WILLFULLY committing that sin. 

Someone correct me if im wrong, but I Hope this helps,

Anthony

[indianabob]

Friend George,

I don't have an answer, just some history and a question.

Ask yourself WHY you take the pack of cigs out and light one up.
Do you perform a ritual such as pounding the pack on your other hand to compact the tobacco before opening it?
Do you usually go for a cigarette right after a meal to have with your coffee or just as you begin to drive to work or especially when you begin a long conversation with a smoking friend?  There are clues to why a person smokes and sometimes it can help to examine our history.

When I began smoking I was always short of money and it became a habit to wait until a friend offered me one of theirs.
I did the same thing with beer.  I would go to the tavern after work for a burger, fries and a beer and then straight home.  UNLESS a friend offered me a cigarette or another beer.  I would usually say "no thanks I need to get home", but if they offered to buy the beer and keep the pack of cigarettes on the bar, I would stay for a while and listen to their sad story that I had heard before.  I guess I was learning to be a social worker/psychologist, but it kept me within my spending budget.

My point here is that sometimes we can light every other cigarette without even having a desire for it; just habit.

After eight years of smoking, at age 29 I became very sick with bronchitis and couldn't smoke for about a week.  Couldn't sleep lying down in bed.  Along with the serious warning from the family doctor and the realization that this was going to kill me much earlier than I preferred and the pleading eyes of my daughter Karen who had severe allergies, I was able to quit.
I don't remember kneeling down to pray about it, but I did talk with God in a manner of speaking, so maybe God had a hand in it.

I hope my history will be of some help even if it is just to say we understand and "feel your pain".

Thanks for sharing your struggle and please be patient with yourself as you grow in grace and knowledge.

Bob

  Heb 10:26  For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more a sacrifice for sins,


  Hi all, I just got through reading, Despising the Word of God Biblestudy April 2008, and in it Ray says quote; " if you sin willfully, willingly, knowingly, wantingly after you have come to the knowledge of the truth, there is no more sacrifice for you (Heb. 10:26)."

  I dont completly understand this. I hear over and over people saying God is dealing with our sins one at a time and its a work in progress. It actually feels like He deals with our sins not just one at a time, but two or three at a time, maybe more.

  Maybe im wrong or misunderstanding Ray, but he also seems to be saying that if we continue to sin after we have come into the knowledge of truth, then we will be cut off.

   I guess my problem is Im still smoking cigarettes, willingly, wantingly, and knowingly. But Im also praying daily that I quit. I know God is in total control and im right where He wants me to be.

  I guess one could say Im lacking in faith in this area. Is it even possible, to be lacking in faith to conquer in one sin, but to be stronger in faith to conquer in another sin?

  I have to admit that the more I smoke the stronger the guilt and shame. Is one of the deciding factors for me to quit smoking going to be overwhelming guilt and shame? I mean is that how God, in part Judges us? I know grace (divine influence) and chastening has alot to do with it.

  Im not even sure I know exactly what is means to have knowledge of truth. I have an idea, but Im not a hundred percent sure. Im also not even sure I have such a knowledge.

  I hope Ive made sense, and I would really appreciate some insight into this cause its kinda confusing, and to be honest a bit discouraging.

              Your Friend in Christ, George D.   





   
 

[Dave in Tenn]

I loved that email, Anthony, the first time I read it.  It made me cry and smile then as it has again.  What a gentle spirit Ray has with people...admirable and hopefully imitatable (with sufficient practice).  He neither condemned nor condoned, but shared the scripture, some wisdom, and pointed towards a higher spiritual understanding. 

I can't add to it, George.  Only that I agree that the feelings/thoughts you have on the subject are from God and of God.  Whether you struggle mightily or it falls away matters very little.  Both are at least akin to miracles dealing with this thing. 

Maybe we should open a 'smoking cessation' sub forum here.   

[kweli]

Hello George D

Everybody has had something very profound to share here so there's a lot we all can take from this.

I believe you are more knowledgeable about this than you think. This is what I gathered from you and believe may be the key to your dilemma...

Jas 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

Joh 5:30  I can of myself do nothing

The size is just for emphasis. Hope it helps in some way. Hold on to HIM older brother

All Glory To GOD

[JeffH]

>>>Maybe im wrong or misunderstanding Ray, but he also seems to be saying that if we continue to sin after we have come into the knowledge of truth, then we will be cut off.

Hi Jak,

I just reread one of Ray's papers last week and remember something about this topic.  At first I stumbled over the meaning (well, until I finished the paper) because it indicated the very thing you're asking about.

After I thought for a while, I realized that (and this is highly paraphrased) we are in a constant state of:

Sinning > Repentance > Forgiveness

As we go through this process every day (many times each day) we are being reminded of the sin by God (calling us to repent).  This is our Lake of Fire.  You're being refined and it's difficult and you feel defeated, but you're reminded that through your weakness and by God's grace His power is made perfect.

2 Corinthians 12:9 "But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me.

In us, weakness has far more value than strength.  Weakness builds character and strength is the result of that character.

To put it plainly with regard to the verse in Hebrews:

1. You sin
2. You're unforgiven for that sin (you aren't covered)
3. God tells you to repent (guilty conscience)
4. You repent and ask for forgiveness (prayer)
5. You're free from that sin

(until you sin again....)

God didn't call it Lake of Fire for nothing!  ;o)

We all experience what you're experiencing.  I'm in agony for a good portion of every day.

Know that God will take away some things and leave others as He wills.

Always remember: Your sin humbles you and that is something that God is looking for in each of us - humility.

Jeff

[Brian]

The writer includes himself ("we") as needing this warning also for it encompasses those who have received a full knowledge (epignosis) of the truth. It is directed to those who deliberately keep on sinning after they fully understand the way of escape in Jesus. It adds seriousness to the exhortation of verse 25 not to abandon meeting together with other Christians (as the initial Greek gar, "for," indicates). This recalls John's warning in 1 John 2:19 concerning those who "went out from us." "Their going," he says, "showed that none of them belonged to us." They had known the way of life, but had not chosen to avail themselves of it, and one early sign of heart apostasy is an unwillingness to continue association with true believers.

Yet despite the advantage of full enlightenment, if there is no change in behavior and sin continues to dominate the life of professed believers, they will find no other hiding place from God's wrath, for there is no other sacrifice than Christ's which will avail for sin. Since by unchanged behavior such individuals give evidence that Christ's sacrifice is rejected, the one way of escape is rejected also. Only judgment and "blazing fire" after death awaits, as one of the enemies of God (2 Thessalonians 1:7). This behavior parallels those "having fallen away" of 6:6, where apostasy also led to irremediable judgment.

The NIV has properly translated the opening phrase of verse 26 as, if we deliberately keep on sinning. It is not a sin one can stumble into suddenly. It is not the normal falterings of a Christian still learning how to walk in the Spirit. It has been well termed "the leukemia of noncommitment." It is choosing to live for self behind a Christian veneer and refusing to be delivered from sin's reign by the past sacrifice and present high priestly ministry of Jesus. It is not continual sinning from ignorance as many church members manifest, but occurs after full enlightenment. Such people know of the power of Christ to deliver, but have not chosen to avail themselves of it. Their life may appear to be fairly respectable when judged by the world's standards, but what it is like in God's eyes is described in verses 28-30. (35)

The argument proceeds from the less to the greater, very much as the writer had done in 2:2-3. If immediate death was the penalty for violating the law of Moses (which was but a shadow or picture), how much more should one expect severe judgment for continually repeating, knowingly and deliberately, the reality which is Jesus and his sacrifice! What they have done is threefold:

1. They have trampled the Son of God underfoot! The writer chooses a title for Jesus which emphasizes his right to be Lord over all. To trample him under foot is to spurn his right to govern life. Lip service is paid to Christian truth but life is lived as one pleases, even adopting the world's values and standards. As one poet has described it:

He lived for himself, and himself alone;
For himself, and none beside.
Just as if Jesus had never lived,
And as if he had never died!

2. They have treated as something common or trivial the blood of the covenant which has power to make one holy. They have regarded the blood of Jesus as having no more value than the blood of any other man, and therefore, in practice, insisted that religious activities ought to be enough to satisfy God. And they are saying this even though they have previously acknowledged that the death of Christ has ruled out such means. Once they regarded themselves as holy (sanctified) by the blood of Jesus, but now they deny this and reject the cross as unnecessary for acceptance before God.

3. They insult the Spirit of grace. The full understanding of redemptive truth, the awareness that the blood of Jesus can make one holy, the pleasures of meeting together with other Christians; all have been a gracious ministry of the Holy Spirit to the individuals considered here. Now these are being rejected and treated with contempt. It is an egregious insult to the One who was sent to draw men and women to salvation. It usually means to become guilty of the sin which Jesus called "an eternal sin," unpardonable in this age and the next. (Mk 3:29).

Verse 30 supports this view of coming judgment with two references to the Song of Moses, found in Deuteronomy 32. The first refers to the destruction of apostates and is quoted also by Paul in Romans 12:20 in a possibly similar connection. The second quote, however, looks more to the severity of God on those of his own who presumptuously play with sin even when knowing better. Such a case is that of David in 2 Samuel 24, who is given a choice of three painful penalties because of his sin in numbering the people of Israel against the express prohibition of the Lord. If even a greatly beloved believer like David could be dealt with severely by God, how much more would the apostate feel the full extent of divine wrath!

In either case, says our author in verse 31, It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. To encounter the living God in the full majesty of his holiness is a terrifying and awesome experience. In the first case cited, it is to experience after death the judgment of purifying fire "that will consume the enemies of God." The second case is to know in this life the heavy hand of God's displeasure because of deliberate and sinful choices which one is reluctant to give up. Only God can tell the difference between these two cases, for in human eyes they may appear indistinguishable. But that is the purpose for such warnings as we find in Hebrews As the writer has said: "See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart" (3:12), "Let us, therefore, be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short" (4:1), and "Let us make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall" (4:11). God is not a power to trifle with, for he can do what we cannot do, namely, read hearts. He can be ruthless if it is necessary to waken those sinners to the evil results they are embracing. That ruthlessness is a hidden blessing when the heart is unaware that it is ignoring the death of Jesus as the only adequate sacrifice for sin. Behind his severity is mercy toward those destroying themselves in unbelief God lovingly seeks to waken them to what they are doing before they reach that stage of heart-hardening which deliberately reject Christ. Beyond that point lies the "unpardonable" sin.

I hope this enlightens your heart

Love in Christ

B

[Roy Monis]

Hi! Everyone

Some truly great posts here and brim full of wisdom and knowledge, I applaud everyone who has contributed. I cannot add anything to what has already been said and will be printing it out to make a study of it peace meal.

Thank you all for a beautiful and carefully measured input which is highly edifying and appreciated.

Brian your contribution was truly brilliant, brother. Amen!

"Do not let your speech cause you to sin and do not say in the presence of the messenger of God that it was a mistake. Why should God be angry on account of your voice and destroy the work of your hands?" (Eccl.5:6).

God bless you brothers and sisters in our joint walk in Christ. 

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy UK     

[OBrenda]

Glad to see you posting George!

My first reaction was the same as Gena's.....is smoking a Sin?

If it is, there may be other "Fish to Fry" in the furnace, before God starts dealing with you specifically on it.

I probably can't add anything here except to personally encourage you keep trying to stop as God leads by conviction! Acknowledging God in all things, even while smoking meditate on Him.  While doing so pray for his mercy, and deliverance!

The wisdom and subject of this thread , should wake us up and give awareness to be diligent!

As the penalty for Sin is death, the consequence for this....Remember your Sweet Children & Wife they Need You!

George You Can't Be Replaced!
Brenda

P.S.   Hey Dave your comment.....Maybe we should open a 'smoking cessation' sub forum here.
Could we do something for us here struggling from all addictions?  Maybe the Mod's know ??

[Roy Monis]

Hi George.  I understand your dilemma.  I have no great words of wisdom for you.  I just wanted you to know you are not alone!  We all have our burdens whether it is smoking or whatever.

Is smoking a sin, or just an unhealthy habit??  Of course we all want to stop, but if we don't/can't then the Lord isn't allowing us to at the present time.  Just keep praying but don't beat yourself up spiritually about it.  We all keep trying to kick the beast off the throne!!

Hi! Gena

You ask is smoking a sin?  Let the Word of God answer that for you; "Know ye not that ye are a temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man destroyeth the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, and such are ye."  (1Cor.3:16-17).

Yes, love, anything that harms or does damage to the body which is the temple of the Holy Spirit is a sin along with fornication.

Hope you're not a smoker. I have given George the answer but he's not ready yet, but yet again he is well on the way to the point where like me he'll be left with no option but to, unlike Indianabob's advice, fall on his knees and beg for deliverance with those five magical words and I don't mean abacadabra.


God bless you sister in our joint walk in Christ. 

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy UK