Why I ask these questions

[Douglas Wayne Thomas]

      In other posts of mine, for example " Doing Good Works" and "Any True Churches"; I asked some questions that people thought should not have been asked.

      After reading the many replies, maybe I should have asked for anecdotal examples as an avenue for people to answer the questions. Jesus taught with anecdotes see Matthew 11 verse 7 – 10 for example.

      People can also always use hypothetical situations to answer these questions. Jesus used hypothetical situations in his teachings. Luke 15 verse 1 – 7 for example.

I did reread all of the scriptures that people sent to me.

     Here are my reasons for asking these types of questions:

     People do not forget that which they understand, the activity of increasing understanding applies to the material world and the spiritual realm.  The phrase "faith seeking understanding" acknowledges that even those things we know by the grace of faith are not contrary to reason, even if they happen to be above reasons. 

     Articles of faith are known by grace and divine revelation, we can still increase our understanding of much that is held by faith.  This is possible because faith and reason are complementary, they go hand in hand.  Just like Ray's teachings of Science and the Bible. Actually; exactly like Ray's teachings of everything on the Bible-Truths website. I thank God everyday for finding this website and forum.

     Jesus employed discussions / questions to force his disciples to articulate what they held by faith. He poised many questions to his disciples. In Mark Chapter 8 verse 29 Jesus asks' "But whom do you say that I am?"  Through parables and returning question for question, Jesus engaged the minds, the reasoning, of those with whom he spoke. 

     It is a fact of human nature that a man often thinks he knows something until he is forced to articulate it.  In other words, an indistinct, or intuitive, "knowledge" of something — which is really little more than a feeling — reveals its true nature in the process of being brought into the light of discussion.  The beauty of the process is that in finding the limits of our knowledge we not only discover where our ignorance ends, but also where one's true knowledge begins.  

Through questioning; Peter had a revelation when he answered Jesus' question, "Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God."

Does anyone think I should not ask these questions. God has given me an inquisitive nature. Sometimes; I know the answers to the questions before they are even asked, however God seems to tug at my heart to ask the questions anyway.

And now for my next question:

Sometimes I wonder what would happen if humanity, started reading the Bible more passionately and enthusiastically. I wonder what would happen if we were to honestly listen to the stories, and teachings, in the Bible and not trying to use them to get all of our questions about God answered but instead trusting God to use them to pose questions to us about us. Can you see the difference? What would happen if we just trusted ourselves to follow God's words and teachings completely?

Seeking to do God's will always,

Doug

[Dennis Vogel]

Sometimes I wonder what would happen if humanity, started reading the Bible more passionately and enthusiastically. I wonder what would happen if we were to honestly listen to the stories, and teachings, in the Bible and not trying to use them to get all of our questions about God answered but instead trusting God to use them to pose questions to us about us. Can you see the difference? What would happen if we just trusted ourselves to follow God's words and teachings completely?

Nothing would change. It's not up to us.

Dennis

[Douglas Wayne Thomas]

Dennis - I agree, God has to provide the impetus for us to change in the first place. I guess this question should be seen as more of a rhetorical question.

[KristaD]

I think your first question was just something that we should not answer directly. What we do for others is between ourselves and God and not for any man to judge. It would be very hard, maybe impossible, to tell you what we do for others without boasting and none of us want to be guilty of that. It also did feel a little accusatory to me, the way that you asked how we "walk the walk and not just talk the talk", it sounded like you wanted us to prove how we were as good as the churches that make big productions out of their good deeds. That's just my opinion though.

      What would happen if we just trusted ourselves to follow God's words and teachings completely?[/color]

We can't do anything without God, I certainly can't trust myself to follow Him completely or do anything good for that matter, I am at His mercy. But like Dennis said it would make no difference, our righteousness is as filthy rags, only God can change our hearts and it's all in His control and not dependent on what we do.

[mharrell08]

     Here are my reasons for asking these types of questions:

     People do not forget that which they understand, the activity of increasing understanding applies to the material world and the spiritual realm.  The phrase "faith seeking understanding" acknowledges that even those things we know by the grace of faith are not contrary to reason, even if they happen to be above reasons.   

Hello Doug,

Could you further elaborate on this statement please?

Also, you speak of spiritual understanding as if it could be gained by one's own desires. Like Dennis said, it is not up to us but up to God. I don't see how you can rhetorically take God out of any equation. All is of God. That may be a short statement but has powerful meaning. Just like with the good works thread...all is of God. Just like with the true churches thread...all is of God. Good works are of God not of man. Christ built/is building His true church not from any man-made denomination.

There is certainly nothing wrong with asking questions even if you feel the questions are to lead someone else to some higher understanding. But that is still up to God. All is of God. I don't mean to sound as a parrot but some of your questions/statements don't seem to not go along with 'All is of God.'

I'm not trying to accuse you of any wrong-doing just pointing out what I have observed. I could be wrong and it wouldn't be the first time. Just speaking on what I see.

Marques

[Beloved]

Doug you posit
I wonder what would happen if we were to honestly listen to the stories, and teachings, in the Bible and not trying to use them to get all of our questions about God answered but instead trusting God to use them to pose questions to us about us. Can you see the difference? What would happen if we just trusted ourselves to follow God's words and teachings completely?

Isn't this another sneaky way for man to keep sitting on the throne?

There is no dying to self in this senario

beloved

[aqrinc]

Much information about man's reason and different views of very smart but sincere men.
Interesting that Doug should be using, Abelard, Aquinas and Socratic teaching methods to
test members of this forum. What is the purpose may i ask?

One common thread they all seem to adhere to is reason trumps revelation.

Thanks, Geo. 

Quote
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=The+phrase+%22faith+seeking+understanding%22+acknowledges+that+even+those+things+we+know+by+the+grace+of+faith+are+not+contrary+to+reason&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=

[Beloved]

Ecc 1:9  The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

All of these theological arguments have been recycled and repackaged.

Isn't it nice to know that we do not need to rehash these and others

Joh 16:13  Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come.

Our inquiring minds however want to know, so some of us have to still chase these things.

beloved

[OBrenda]

IMHO

I still have so much to learn and understand.  When I post a question here, I open myself up and become vulnerable to scrutiny.  If I ask a question it's because I'm unsure I have a good understanding of the answer, and open my self to be teachable and changed.  Those that are much more ahead of me, thank you for not reacting to me like I was a heathen or an enemy.  But rather a Sister in Christ that needs a nudge torwards the most excellent way....

If I present a question concerning what my "Old Grandmother use to say",(whether I quote her or not) bring on the scriptures, share your wisdom. And with whatever humility God affords me, I will be shown and confess to the carnal detestable aspects of it.  Every day God shows me that I can be extremely judgemental, prideful, arrogant and flippant in dealing with those I'm commanded to love.

I would much rather be shown foolish in my ways, this side of the LOF.
And when people just don't get me, and read more into where I'm coming from...I try to remember I'm in good company!

Peace,
Brenda

[Samson]

IMHO

I still have so much to learn and understand.  When I post a question here, I open myself up and become vulnerable to scrutiny.  If I ask a question it's because I'm unsure I have a good understanding of the answer, and open my self to be teachable and changed.  Those that are much more ahead of me, thank you for not reacting to me like I was a heathen or an enemy.  But rather a Sister in Christ that needs a nudge torwards the most excellent way....

If I present a question concerning what my "Old Grandmother use to say",(whether I quote her or not) bring on the scriptures, share your wisdom. And with whatever humility God affords me, I will be shown and confess to the carnal detestable aspect of it.  Every day God shows me that I can be extremal judgemental, prideful, arrogant and flippant in dealing with those I'm commanded to love.

I would much rather be shown foolish in my ways, this side of the LOF.
And when people just don't get me, and read more into where I'm coming from...I try to remember I'm in good company!

Peace,
Brenda

   Well Said Brenda,

                           In My Humble Opinion.

                                                        Kind regards, Samson.