Chastening

[aqrinc]

Hi Sisters and Brothers,

His Chastening is so Right. I must say that i got Slapped and Hugged By God in the space of 3 (24hr Days).
There was a time i would have been worried and nervous about what is happening with my Family and self.
Not so anymore; i think i understand Job's Trials now. I would prefer not to have such fiery Trials but i know
that:

Deuteronomy 8:5:
You shall also consider in yours heart, that, as a man chastens his son, so the LORD your God chastens you.

Job 5:17:
Behold, happy is the man whom God corrects: therefore despise not you the chastening of the Almighty:

Daniel 10:12:
Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that you did set yours heart to understand, and to chasten yourself before your God, your words were heard, and I am come for your words.

Hebrews 12:7:
If all of you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chastens not?

george.

[Jackie Lee]

I have been and being chastened, At least that is what I believe.
I may understand a bit more now... a few years ago I just couldn't figure out why all these things happen.
In fact I still wonder.
I just have to keep in mind it is for my good, I think/hope.
I am just so full of pent up anger now it is hard to feel worthy of even being chastened.
I sometimes hate these trials, Forgive me God I just can't help it.
If I tried to get away where would I go, can't run I tried that.
When I was young I was always taught to keep my emotions in check...I did that.
Now that I have been married for 21 years things remain the same the only way I keep my sanity is prayer. 

[Richard D]

Hello George, Jackie Lee.


Sometimes I feel leery about this chastening we go through. What I mean by this is that I believe that no one can persuade God in changing His mind as if somehow another outside of God was superior in their thinking that God should listen to that one.

When I think of everyone being predestinated I think every action we perform and every word we speak has been ordained by God. Now understanding we don't have free will no person can originate any thought on their own but only respond to causes that force the only possible decision that would conform to God's decree fulfilling His purpose.

How does one distinguish between the natural order of things and God's chastisement? I read in the L.O.F. where Ray said that if people had free will you would think that of all the millions of people who ever lived that at least one would have used their free will to live right. The bible says all have fallen short of the glory of God.

If anything in my day goes sour or bad or unprofitable for me should I say I'm being chastised by God and when things go great should I say I'm doing everything right?

For the wages of sin is death, I believe God has the right to kill anyone as soon as they sin but He does not do this. Now having fallen short of the glory of God and also again it is written not one does right no not one.

I see my life is in a constant state of sin, maybe I'm ok in this area but the idea I'm alright in every area in my life as if I have become complete in the express image of God is absurd.

Life is very difficult and I'm wondering if our life is not in a constant state of chastisement? 


                                                          In His Love. Richard.

[aqrinc]

Jackie Lee, Richard,

Thanks for responding to my post, it is a painful and difficult life we must all live here and now.

With a few scars on me i have some understanding of chastening. When my children did right
or learned something i am always quick with praise. When they do wrong or repeat the same
mistakes i will first gently chide, then strongly suggest then command them to change. At no
point do i stop loving or caring about what they do or that they should do well and good. The
scars have come from always waiting to the last minute to give them the chance to change or
fix it based on what they have learned in the past.

Just So but with a Trillion times more Love and Patience and Pain does Our Father go through
with each of us His children. So yes; the chastening and rewards are similar only in type and
in no way in kind. That is probably the lamest explanation yet, but it is the best i can do at
this time.

I will ask you all to put in a good word (Prayer) for me and my Family in this trying time.

Love, Peace, Endurance and Grace,

george.

[hammerandnails]

Dear George,
I so feel for you, brother!
I know exactly how it feels.
As I go through chastening myself, I get so wrapped up in poor me mentality.
Some days I want somebody to wrap their arms around me and tell me that everything
will be ok, even if is a lie.
But, then, out of nowhere scripture come to me.
Especially the one :

                "Looking to Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; WHO FOR THE JOY THAT WAS SET BEFORE HIM
                 ENDURED THE CROSS, despising the shame, AND IS SET DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF THE
                 THRONE OF GOD."  Heb.12:2

So, my brother,

                "Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees," v.12


This scripture helps me to do just that, may be it may help you:


                "And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of
                 bonds and imprisonment:
                 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with
                 the sword: they wondered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute,
                 afflicted, tormented;"

                "(OF WHOM THE WORLD WAS NOT WORTHY:) they wondered in deserts, and
                 in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth."

               " And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, RECEIVED NOT THE PROMISE:"

               "God having provided some BETTER THING FOR US, that they without us should not made PERFECT."


       My heart and prayers go out to you and for you and your family,
       that the Lord will give you strength to endure!!

      Grace and peace from the Lord Jesus Christ!

          Love you
          Ariel

[Kat]

Hi George,

I came across this and thought it would fit right into this thread.

http://bible-truths.com/lake3.html -------------------------

                        GRACE AND JUDGMENT

"For whom the Lord loves He CHASTENS ..." (Heb. 12:6).

There is no escaping it. If you are to be a "son of God" you will be chastened. Now I don't want to pile too much on you at once here, but there's more. As you can see from the definition above, the word "chastened" is paideuo, and is not too severe. Even if involving some punishment, the whole thrust of the word is to train, educate, discipline, instruct, etc. These are all good things not to be feared. But there is more, so we might just as well read it and get our attitudes adjusted to it. The rest of the verse:

"For whom the Lord loves He CHASTENS, and [AND] ... SCOURGES every son whom He receives [or is assenting]" (Heb. 12:6)

"SCOURGES?" No, not scourging! Does God show His love toward us by scourging us? It is absolutely necessary. Scourging is definitely even more severe and harsh than chastening.

The word "scourge" in Heb. 12:6 is from the Greek word mastigoo and here's its definition: "to flog (literally or figuratively) -- scourge" Strong's Greek Dictionary, page 46. And what does "flog" mean?

"flog 1. To beat severely with a whip or rod." Page 531 American heritage College Dictionary.

This word "scourge" in Heb. 12:6 which God performs on us, is the very same word found in John 19:1 where it says they took Jesus and "scourged" Him. Now then, will God literally "BEAT SEVERELY WITH A WHIP OR ROD" every son that He receives? No, not necessarily, even though they did literally do so to Paul and many other followers of Jesus Christ. Remember that the definition said it can be "literal OR figurative."

Many people have come to know Christ in their senior years, and God does not literally beat every little old lady with whips and rods when they turn to Him. However, the chastening of God's grace which we read about in Titus 2:11 can certainly seem like a real flogging. God will chasten us until He drives out the beast in us. The beast of supposed "free will" which is really self-will does not want to leave peaceably! It takes the very presence of Jesus Christ to dispel the beast of humanistic self-determinism, commonly called "free will."

Although we are not condemned when God judges us, we nonetheless must be chastened.

"If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chastens not? But if you be without chastisement, whereof ALL are partakers, then are you ********, and NOT sons. Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection into the Father of spirits, and live? For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but He for OUR PROFIT, that we might be partakers of His holiness. Now no chastening for the present seems to be joyous, but GRIEVOUS: nevertheless afterward it yields the PEACEABLE FRUIT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS unto them which are exercised thereby" (Heb. 12:7--11).

So it is essential that we accept God's chastisement which is how He "judges" us.

The reason we are not "condemned" with the world is because we accept God's judgment in our lives

"There is therefore now NO CONDEMNATION to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit" (Rom. 8:1).
----------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[aqrinc]

Thanks Kat,

Yes i do have those Scriptures in my heart every second of the day. I am learning like Paul to
have real Joy when chastening comes because i know that God is really Doing His Work In and
On me. I thank each and every Brother and Sister for being just so and Give Thanks to God
The Father And Our Lord Jesus Christ in Great Joy for His Love and Mercies and Adoption.

Peace and Power and Glory and Love,

george.

[Richard D]

I hear much talk about chastisement on this thread and was wondering what really constitutes chastisement?

It must be something uncomfortable as to get one's attention as to cause one to think about one's actions in a way to persuade change of heart.

Is the chastisement from God uncommon from that which all of humanity goes through?
Can one point out any type of chastisement from God and say this is happening as a result from some wrong doing one has done?

Example, a believer does something not right and losses their job but a non believer does something wrong and losses their job.

How can one with certainty say they are being chastened by God without doubt?


                                           In God's Love. Richard.

[Stevernator]

Sometimes I think about things I have done in the past and realize that what I did was wrong. Can you imagine how Peter felt running to meet the Lord Jesus after He was resurrected. I listened to a preacher on the radio who was talking about how maybe Peter went out first to meet Him before the others to get his rebuke over with so he would be back in His grace.

Heb 11

24By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;

25Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;

26Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.

When I was reading the letter to the Hebrews that last verse really connected to me. I liked thinking about Moses deciding to endure the chastising of Christ and enduring affliction with his people rather than live a life of carnal luxury.

[Marlene]

Wow, that is an awesome verse. Makes you think for sure. You know, I often thought how could anyone with so many blessings as we have in the USA ever be saved . I know the verse that with God all things are possible. Its like someone once on here told me. To think we have many more things to overcome. Everyday, I realize this.

In His Love,
Marlene

[Kat]

Hi Richard,

The chastening that the Elect recieve I believe is actually teaching us to live righteous.  It is directed in a way to help you grow spiritually.  The Spirit works in you so when you do something wrong you feel guilty and repent or if you don't God will chastise you, so you see your error.  It's like when you post something here that is not correct and someone points it out that you were wrong and it stings a bit.  Or it can be anything that God uses to call attention to a sin we have and causes us to change.

I guess it's sort of like getting a speeding ticket, you might not even have noticed you were going over the speed limit, just going with the flow.  But God does not want us to go with the flow of this world any more, we are to come out and be separated (2Co 6:17).  That is why we are chastened, it's like getting a speeding ticket and that gets your attention.  Like you said, It must be something uncomfortable as to get one's attention as to cause one to think about one's actions in a way to persuade change of heart.

Here is an excerpt from the LOF part 3 'Judgment By Fire Must Begin At The House Of God.'

http://bible-truths.com/lake3.html ----------------------------------

                                WHEN GRACE IS A VERB

Grace means favor, a gift, to be cheerful, well, happy, graciously, freely, deliverance from danger, and a dozen other benevolent qualities of peace, joy, goodness, and salvation. It is one of those truly wonderful words of blessing. But just how does it operate in "the real world" as we say? A definition does not tell us everything about a word. We can, likewise, define "love" as, a deep, tender feeling of affection. But does that definition tell us how love actually functions?

We learned that "... when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord" (I Cor. 11:32).

Chastening defines how it is that God judges us. Now then, we are about to learn one of the most remarkable spiritual truths in the whole Bible:

"For the grace of God that brings salvation hath appeared to all men , teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world [eon or age]" (Titus 2:11-12).

Here then is the remarkable parallel between God's judgment and His grace:

God "judges" us by "chastening" us! (I Cor. 11:32) "chasten," Greek: 'paideuo' #3811
God "graces" us by "teaching" us! (Titus 2:12) "teaching," Greek: 'paideuo' #3811

WOW! Do you even begin to understand what you have just read? Whether God "JUDGES" us (and later the wicked world), or "GRACES" us, He does it THE SAME WAY!!

"Judging" is CHASTENING (Strong's #3811), and "gracing" is CHASTENING (Strong's #3811). It is the SAME WORD!

"Grace" is not a stagnant feel-good noun -- it is also a verb -- that is, it does something; it accomplishes something; it produces something of great value in the believer.

"Teaching" accomplishes something essential in making man into God's very image.

The next verse tells us what it "teaches" us: "denying ungodliness and worldly lusts ... living soberly, righteously, and godly!" Just the words "living godly" will cover every single thing that God EVER ASKS OF US -- EVERYTHING. "Living GODLY" covers every possible act of faith, love, and obedience that anyone could ever conceive of.

When God uses the SAME WORD to describe something that He wishes to accomplish, it behooves us to study deeply what that word means, especially when that word has to do with the very destiny of all peoples who have ever lived.

The subject of I Cor. 11:32 is JUDGING.
The subject of Titus 2:11 is GRACE AND SALVATION.

HOW does God "judge" us? BY CHASTENING (#3811, paideuo)!.
HOW does God's "grace and save" us? BY CHASTENING (#3811, paideuo)!

God JUDGES by chastening (I Cor. 11:32), and God GRACES by chastening (Titus 2:11).
By GRACE GOD JUDGES US and by JUDGING GOD GRACES US!

Gracing us by means of chastening, TEACHES US TO LIVE GODLY and brings salvation. Judging us by means of chastening, also TEACHES US TO LIVE GODLY and brings salvation!

It is high time we dispense with the hypocrisy.

When God JUDGES US THROUGH CHASTENING (I Cor. 11:32) it is for our good and for our benefit and for our salvation. Why then do we think that God changes character when He likewise judges the wicked, unjust, and non-believers at the great white throne? Why? God changes NOT! God is NOT a respecter of persons. You read all of these Scriptures. Do we think the Scriptures LIE?
v
v
This is an absolutely marvelous teaching. God "judges" us by "chastening "(paideuo) us, which means, teaching, training, learning, disciplining, punishing, instructing, and educating. And God "graces" us also by this same "chastening" (paideuo) which does not change meaning from one Scripture verse to another. Notice how other translations render this word paideuo in Titus 2:11-12:

       "Teaching us..." King James

       "Instructing us..." American Standard Version

       "Disciplining us..." New Testament (Henry Alford)

       "And schooling us..." The Centenary Translation (Montgomery)

       "Training us..." The New Testament in Modern Speech (Weymouth)

Now it is true that the Greek word paideuo #3811 can also mean "punishment." But punishment is not the main force of this word. Notice that none of the above translations (nor any that I know of) translate this word, "For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, PUNISHING us that denying ungodliness ..." No, the force of this word is to DISCIPLINE, TRAIN, INSTRUCT, SCHOOL AND TEACH. Let's at least have the sensibility of a ten year-old. Of what value is "disciplining, training, instructing, schooling, and teaching" if it goes on forever and ever and ever, and while being burned with fire, for ALL ETERNITY? Gee, do we think they will EVER "learn their lesson?" I, of course, speak as a fool.

All of these aspects of paideuo are with a view to amendment, correction, and setting right, not merely punishment for punishment's sake. A father chastens his children with a view to amendment and correction, not for the sole sake of CAUSING PAIN! Why do we think carnal-minded human fathers are a billion times more noble and merciful in the disciplining of their children than God is in the disciplining (chastening -- judging -- gracing) of HIS children?
v
v
Remember that Jesus Christ does not change and that He does not respect (have partiality) with regards to persons. With those two thoughts in mind, what is accomplished by the "chastening" of the Lord? He "graces" us by chastening and He "judges" us by chastening. What does it always accomplish? Answer:

"For the grace of God [that chastens us] ... BRINGS SALVATION" (Titus 2:11)!!

And all of this is of God. God judges, God graces, God chastens, and God brings SALVATION!
--------------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Richard D]

Kat.

Thank you for responding to my reply on this thread. Sometimes when I read what a brother or sister says about being chastised by God I'm thinking are these experiences we experience uncommon to unbelievers?

Before I came or am coming to I should say an accurate knowledge of God my life was full of difficulties and still are.

Anything I practiced as a way of life before asking Christ into my life I never thought twice about, now in some of those things I now feel guilt and others things God has not burden me at this point in time.

I find everything that happens in my life is not uncommon to humanity in general.  God's dealings with me I do not view as severe anymore as I view the severity of life itself.

Everyday I think of God and ask forgiveness in those things I believe are wrong but am powerless to do anything about, I believe God has left things in my life to keep me humble.

I believe if God is not calling someone then that one has no interest in God at all and just goes about life without acknowledging God.
 
Those who are interested are so because God is calling them, the problem I see is a question of the many called but few chosen. No one seems to know where they stand with God. Are they called or are they chosen?

I believe God keep one humble this way. Or maybe the elect know they are the elect and the rest of us hope in vain as far as being the elect. But we need to learn righteousness anyways so in this respect it's not in vain that we believe or learn.

                                            In God's Love. Richard.

[winner08]

I posted on the subject of chastisment a while ago. I was telling of the time when God slaped me upside me head (really hard) I actually forgot what I did to deserved that but I am sure I needed it. I posed the question when was the last time you were slaped by God and Why. I was chastised just the other day because I was not keeping up on my studies and God reminded me of that by letting a good friend of mine know this and she came out of the blue and asked me if I stoped reading and studing and I said its been a week or so. I then then asked how did you know and she said I can tell. She said I seemed to have lost something in my eyes and attituide. WOW.

Darren

Richard D. I don't know if that's true, that God only calls that who are interested in God. I think there's a few people that God called to serve His purpose and I don't think they wanted anything to do with God.
pharroh was one, I think Paul didn't want anything to do with God.Except to kill or put the christians in prison. I could be wrong.

[Richard D]

Hi Darren.

No one is interested in God as we know scripture says inclination of mans heart is evil from early youth up but what my meaning was is that unless God is calling us we would have no desire or have any interested in God.

                                        In God's Love. Richard.

[aqrinc]

Before we get into another misunderstanding, here is Richard's comment on the subject. Come on Brothers

(Mote versus Beam)

Kat.

I believe if God is not calling someone then that one has no interest in God at all and just goes about life
without acknowledging God.
 
Those who are interested are so because God is calling them, the problem I see is a question of the many
called but few chosen. No one seems to know where they stand with God. Are they called or are they chosen?


                                            In God's Love. Richard.

Darren

Richard D. I don't know if that's true, that God only calls that who are interested in God. I think there's a few
people that God called to serve His purpose and I don't think they wanted anything to do with God.
pharroh was one, I think Paul didn't want anything to do with God.Except to kill or put the christians in prison.
I could be wrong.

[Richard D]

George.


This is too funny to be on the general board. George, if you tell me who the Mote is I'll tell you who the beam is, of course in God's love my brother. 


Darren, I think they picking on us now....................LOL 


                                        In God's Love. Richard.

[aqrinc]

Brothers and Sisters,

We all have mahogany LOGS in our eyes  , it looks like my brethren has a mote in their eye that i need to clear.
In reality it is a mahogany LOG also. My log is so blocking my vision that their log looks like a mote.

I write in the Spirit on this as God makes it plain that the accuser is trying His best to deceive us; His (God's)
Little ones.

Brings us back to the reason for chastening that we may know that we are all fallen and He Only
can Fix our condition. Now what i really dread is if and when i have to be scourged (That really will hurt).

george.

[winner08]

Yes Richard D. I understand what you are saying. I think I just read something into it that I shouldn't have Sorry.

[aqrinc]

These are a few more verses that are pulled from different passages of Scripture. Chastening By God is
shown through the Scriptures as a necessary part of humanity living and learning to do Right In The Sight
Of God. Each of the verses has the same message yet show a different part of the ongoing process of our
condition from rebel to redeemed. There really is a lot more to learn in each Word and sentence of Scripture.

Deuteronomy 11:2:
And know all of you this day: for I speak not with your children which have not known, and which have not seen
the chastisement of the LORD your God, his greatness, his mighty hand, and his stretched out arm,

Job 34:31:
Surely it is meet to be said unto God, I have borne chastisement, I will not offend any more:

Psalms 94:10:
He that chastises the heathen, shall not he correct? he that teaches man knowledge, shall not he know?

Isaiah 53:5:
But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was
upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Jeremiah 31:18:
I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself thus; You have chastised me, and I was chastised, as a bullock
unaccustomed to the yoke: turn you me, and I shall be turned; for you are the LORD my God.

Hebrews 12:6:
For whom the Lord loves he chastens, and scourges every son whom he receives.

Hebrews 12:8:
But if all of you be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are all of you b astards, and not sons.

george.

[20en^y]

Hi George,

I came across this and thought it would fit right into this thread.

http://bible-truths.com/lake3.html -------------------------

                        GRACE AND JUDGMENT

"For whom the Lord loves He CHASTENS ..." (Heb. 12:6).

There is no escaping it. If you are to be a "son of God" you will be chastened. Now I don't want to pile too much on you at once here, but there's more. As you can see from the definition above, the word "chastened" is paideuo, and is not too severe. Even if involving some punishment, the whole thrust of the word is to train, educate, discipline, instruct, etc. These are all good things not to be feared. But there is more, so we might just as well read it and get our attitudes adjusted to it. The rest of the verse:

"For whom the Lord loves He CHASTENS, and [AND] ... SCOURGES every son whom He receives [or is assenting]" (Heb. 12:6)

"SCOURGES?" No, not scourging! Does God show His love toward us by scourging us? It is absolutely necessary. Scourging is definitely even more severe and harsh than chastening.

The word "scourge" in Heb. 12:6 is from the Greek word mastigoo and here's its definition: "to flog (literally or figuratively) -- scourge" Strong's Greek Dictionary, page 46. And what does "flog" mean?

"flog 1. To beat severely with a whip or rod." Page 531 American heritage College Dictionary.

This word "scourge" in Heb. 12:6 which God performs on us, is the very same word found in John 19:1 where it says they took Jesus and "scourged" Him. Now then, will God literally "BEAT SEVERELY WITH A WHIP OR ROD" every son that He receives? No, not necessarily, even though they did literally do so to Paul and many other followers of Jesus Christ. Remember that the definition said it can be "literal OR figurative."

Many people have come to know Christ in their senior years, and God does not literally beat every little old lady with whips and rods when they turn to Him. However, the chastening of God's grace which we read about in Titus 2:11 can certainly seem like a real flogging. God will chasten us until He drives out the beast in us. The beast of supposed "free will" which is really self-will does not want to leave peaceably! It takes the very presence of Jesus Christ to dispel the beast of humanistic self-determinism, commonly called "free will."

Although we are not condemned when God judges us, we nonetheless must be chastened.

"If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chastens not? But if you be without chastisement, whereof ALL are partakers, then are you ********, and NOT sons. Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection into the Father of spirits, and live? For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but He for OUR PROFIT, that we might be partakers of His holiness. Now no chastening for the present seems to be joyous, but GRIEVOUS: nevertheless afterward it yields the PEACEABLE FRUIT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS unto them which are exercised thereby" (Heb. 12:7--11).

So it is essential that we accept God's chastisement which is how He "judges" us.

The reason we are not "condemned" with the world is because we accept God's judgment in our lives

"There is therefore now NO CONDEMNATION to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit" (Rom. 8:1).
----------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Thanks Kat,  share those revalations with you, thanks for putting them together for me.      peace in CHRIST