Lake of Fire...Num 31:21

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Earl,

I used to believe as you did in regard to the physical Sabbath, I didn't keep it very often or very successfully but I did believe that the 7th Day was significant and was still in effect, now I see it as a shadow of what was to come, our rest is in Christ, He is our Sabbath, the Lord of the Sabbath!

Mat 11:28  Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Mat 11:29  Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

Mat 11:30  For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Mat 12:8  For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Here is an email to Ray from a while back, Ray's comments are in red;

I absolutely agree with you on almost everything!, but I'd like to know how you can get past the Sabbath?

    How do you spiritualize away the Sabbath?
     
    COMMENT:   I do NOT "spiritual away the Sabbath."  Besides, if something is "spiritualized" it will not go away, seeing that the natural is temporary, but the spiritual is lasting (II Cor. 4:18).
     
    How do you spiritually do all your work in six days and spiritually rest on the seventh?
     
    COMMENT:  Your statements proves that you do not understand the "spiritual rest" of the Sabbath day at all. The Sabbath pictures rest (actually and literally to "stop working").  What good is the physical sabbath for people who NEVER stop working. Not only do they do their "works of the law" during the week, but they actually do their "works of the law" on the Sabbath which pictures them STOPPING THEIR OWN WORKS!  When you do you "work of the law" by KEEPING the physical Sabbath, you BREAK the spirit of the Sabbath which is to STOP YOUR WORKING AND LET GOD WORK IN YOU.

    Therefore, when people as me if I keep the Sabbath I always answer by saying, "YES, EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK." As long as you are doing YOUR work on the Sabbath, you will never "ENTER INTO GOD'S REST" (Heb. 4).

    I believe the LUNAR SABBATH should be kept.

    COMMENT:  You are not alone, Johan. Paul had many people who rejected the Gospel by being the same thing: "Ye observe days and months [month means MOON], and times, and years (Gal. 4:10).  Paul could no more persuade them in his day to give up the physical and obey the spiritual (John 6:63), than I am able today. If people can't DO SOMETHING PHYSICAL THEY DON'T FEEL SPIRITUAL.  That's just the way it is.  "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the NEW MOON [as you are now trying to instruct me as necessary], or of the SABBATH DAYS [as you are also accusing me of 'spiritualizing away the Sabbath']" (Col. 2:16).


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4974.0.html

Peace,

Joe

[Falconn003]

Joe thnx for your reply, as i kind bowed out of this thread.

And this is what like minds of Spirit are in agreement.

It is the uncertainty of the carnal mind that questions everthing into oblivion. 

Thnx for your explaination Earl, and hope to discuss other insights with you and everyone else on future threads

Rodger

[Samson]

Hi Earl,

I used to believe as you did in regard to the physical Sabbath, I didn't keep it very often or very successfully but I did believe that the 7th Day was significant and was still in effect, now I see it as a shadow of what was to come, our rest is in Christ, He is our Sabbath, the Lord of the Sabbath!

Mat 11:28  Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Mat 11:29  Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

Mat 11:30  For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Mat 12:8  For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.


   Hello Joe,

                 Thankyou for providing that Email response by Ray regarding the Sabbath showing the distinction
                 the Physical and the Spiritual application of the Sabbath. That reaffirms my previous understanding,
                 but more importantly presents a simplicity in the way it was explained to that Emailer.

                                            Thanks Again, Samson.

Here is an email to Ray from a while back, Ray's comments are in red;

I absolutely agree with you on almost everything!, but I'd like to know how you can get past the Sabbath?

    How do you spiritualize away the Sabbath?
     
    COMMENT:   I do NOT "spiritual away the Sabbath."  Besides, if something is "spiritualized" it will not go away, seeing that the natural is temporary, but the spiritual is lasting (II Cor. 4:18).
     
    How do you spiritually do all your work in six days and spiritually rest on the seventh?
     
    COMMENT:  Your statements proves that you do not understand the "spiritual rest" of the Sabbath day at all. The Sabbath pictures rest (actually and literally to "stop working").  What good is the physical sabbath for people who NEVER stop working. Not only do they do their "works of the law" during the week, but they actually do their "works of the law" on the Sabbath which pictures them STOPPING THEIR OWN WORKS!  When you do you "work of the law" by KEEPING the physical Sabbath, you BREAK the spirit of the Sabbath which is to STOP YOUR WORKING AND LET GOD WORK IN YOU.

    Therefore, when people as me if I keep the Sabbath I always answer by saying, "YES, EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK." As long as you are doing YOUR work on the Sabbath, you will never "ENTER INTO GOD'S REST" (Heb. 4).

    I believe the LUNAR SABBATH should be kept.

    COMMENT:  You are not alone, Johan. Paul had many people who rejected the Gospel by being the same thing: "Ye observe days and months [month means MOON], and times, and years (Gal. 4:10).  Paul could no more persuade them in his day to give up the physical and obey the spiritual (John 6:63), than I am able today. If people can't DO SOMETHING PHYSICAL THEY DON'T FEEL SPIRITUAL.  That's just the way it is.  "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the NEW MOON [as you are now trying to instruct me as necessary], or of the SABBATH DAYS [as you are also accusing me of 'spiritualizing away the Sabbath']" (Col. 2:16).


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4974.0.html

Peace,

Joe

[Akira329]

Lev 14:49  And he shall take to cleanse the house two birds, and cedar wood, and scarlet, and hyssop:
Lev 14:50  And he shall kill the one of the birds in an earthen vessel over running water:
Lev 14:51  And he shall take the cedar wood, and the hyssop, and the scarlet, and the living bird, and dip them in the blood of the slain bird, and in the running water, and sprinkle the house seven times:
Lev 14:52  And he shall cleanse the house with the blood of the bird, and with the running water, and with the living bird, and with the cedar wood, and with the hyssop, and with the scarlet:
Lev 14:53  But he shall let go the living bird out of the city into the open fields, and make an atonement for the house: and it shall be clean.

I could not help but notice that there are quite a few words here that would show the above verses to be not only Mosaic/Priest Laws but more importantly a prophecy of Jesus Christ and the work He would perform.

Check this out;

Mat 27:28  And they stripped him, and put on him a scarlet robe.

Joh 1:32  And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove and it abode upon him.

Joh 19:29  Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a sponge with vinegar and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth.

Isn't the leprosy being cured/healed be true on a spiritual level as well? The cleansing first of certain individuals and ultimately the church as well?

Just some thoughts that occurred to me as I read this.

Peace,

Joe

P.S. As a sidenote I wonder if Lev 14:52 is telling us that the cross was cedar? I know the type of wood used has been debated for centuries and it is certainly not as important as what the cross represents and accomplished.

Great post Joe,
There are so many symbols in law that point to Christ. I'm glad they all represent Christ!!
I remember Marques told me he would like to list them all.
What an exhaustive task!!
There is so much wisdom in the use of figures of speech, God is wise indeed.

I agree Samson, Great email response by Ray
Antaiwan

[Linny]

I just wanted to add my two cents worth here.
For all of you guys that are relatively new to all of this, I don't want to step on your convictions.

I know it feels like that sometimes. 

For me, I understand convictions. I have had SO many over the 18 years I've been a Christ follower. I don't doubt for a moment that my past convictions were from the Lord even though I may not hold them any longer. I also know that He will continue to mold me as He sees fit in the timing that He knows is best for me. He grows us all at a different pace and reveals things to us at different times. It is part of our uniqueness and it all fits into His plan.

I disagree with someone who posted once recently that if your eyes are not open to BT truths then you aren't walking with the Spirit. I have only had my eyes opened to these wonderful truths for less than a year but the Spirit of God has been directing my steps and ALL OVER our lives for long before He opened my eyes to these truths.

Now I also have a different understanding of what the Sabbath is (like Joe's and Samson's and Rodger's) and I have a different understanding of a lot of things now that I used to take literally and physically but now see with Spiritual eyes.

I think that once you really get into Ray's work and see just how the Bible is an entire book about Jesus and is a reflection of Him all the way through the Old to the New, you too will find your convictions changing and reshaping and becoming new and better.

Hope I didn't sound uppity. I certainly am not. Just growing with everyone else here in GOD's TIMING and not my own...

Blessings, Lin

[hillsbororiver]

Hello Earl, Rodger, Samson, Antaiwan & Linny,

Thanks for the responses as we attempt to better understand His Word and each other on a higher level. The freedom we have been given in the Lord can be a confusing thing especially if we are trying to figure all this out with our ego or carnal mind, the whole point of our experience in the flesh is to eventually desire (and obtain) the mind of Christ over all else, if we have this, if we truly have this, then doing the will of our heavenly Father will be the fruit of that transformation of our minds.

There would be no need for memorizing a bunch of do's and dont's, obedience and good works would all flow from the Fountain of Living Waters (Christ) within us. Remember, the standard that our Lord set is infinitely higher than the keepers of Mosaic law ever realized or understood (or could ever accomplish), it is not about the physical "stuff" we might do, it is all about "a state of mind." If we have the right (Christ) state of mind the obedience to God's will manifests itself.

Yes we are "free" from the law, but not "free" to live outside it (willfully sinning), we are free from the death sentence (annihilation) the law demands so we (all) can eventually obtain this mind of Christ which is immortal life! The "law" Christ gave us is a spiritual Law that encompasses every thought we embrace, not just the acting out of our (carnal) thoughts.

Mat 5:17  Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

Mat 5:18  For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

There was probably no one who kept Mosaic and Temple laws better and more thoroughly than Saul/Paul, but he described himself as the worst sinner ever, it was not until he recieved the Spirit of Christ that his mind was transformed and he was able to understand and write the following;

Phi 2:3  Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.

Phi 2:4  Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.

Phi 2:5  Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

Peace,

Joe

[hillsbororiver]

I disagree with someone who posted once recently that if your eyes are not open to BT truths then you aren't walking with the Spirit. I have only had my eyes opened to these wonderful truths for less than a year but the Spirit of God has been directing my steps and ALL OVER our lives for long before He opened my eyes to these truths.

Linny I wanted to add a big AMEN! to your entire post especially what is quoted above, very profound and very true. It is God that directs our paths and we are all a unique creation in the Potter's Hands.

Thank you,

Joe

[Amrhrasach]

I also know that He will continue to mold me as He sees fit in the timing that He knows is best for me. He grows us all at a different pace and reveals things to us at different times. It is part of our uniqueness and it all fits into His plan.

Just growing with everyone else here in GOD's TIMING and not my own...

Blessings, Lin

I'll second Joe's "amen".   Beautifully put Linny.

Best.

Gary

[OBrenda]

I also know that He will continue to mold me as He sees fit in the timing that He knows is best for me. He grows us all at a different pace and reveals things to us at different times. It is part of our uniqueness and it all fits into His plan.

Just growing with everyone else here in GOD's TIMING and not my own...

Blessings, Lin

I'll second Joe's "amen".  Beautifully put Linny.

Best.

Gary

I'll just have to third that Linny!

I know a dear Sister that I respect and admire who just realized she had been under a teacher who teaches "some heresy"  it can be devastating to believe we have "ARRIVED" only to find ourselves still in some error.  Wisdom shared by Linny to understand... We are all being led through understanding & knowledge by the Holy Spirit ...{through these different levels of understandings.}

Peace,
Brenda

[OBrenda]

All my Brothers & Sisters,

Although my original question was on the LOF and what thoughts/revelations that any had on the "Metals" in this scripture.  As the Spirit led this thread to the topic of the Sabbath it is this that I have been struggling with to understand.  I have several loved ones that are observing the Sabbath on Saturday physically as a new revelation.  I have not been able to give answer to my postion on this.  I trust Ray so I have leaned that it is observed in a spiritual way, but thanks to the many posts by all of you,  Eureka.....I better understand!

It certainly is precept upon precept......(Ditto to Samson the email by Ray helped allot)

Love You Guy's

P.S.   Any comments on the metals still welcome?

[hillsbororiver]

Any comments on the gold and the silver, the bronze, the iron, the tin and the lead?

Thanks,
Brenda

Brenda,

I hesitated for a long time responding to this as it is not really covered in the articles but I believe that the metals are consistant in the pattern set forth in the Feasts, Temple (layout), Harvests & livestock.

Gold = Christ

Silver = Elect/Chosen/Remnant

Bronze = Christianity (bronze is a mixture of copper & tin)

Iron, Tin, Lead = Nations/world/unbelievers

We know Christ is the Head, the First in all things and the order of those who follow into the Kingdom (salvation) are represented by different natural/earthly symbols as well as the testimony of the Prophets and the customs of the Jews laid out in the OT.

The following is from LOF Part 4, I believe you will see this pattern demonstrated in what Ray wrote here;

THE THREE FESTIVALS AND THE SALVATION OF ALL

There is a beautiful type in the Old Testament that clearly demonstrates when and in what manner all these Unsaved masses will be saved. This Old Testament type is illustrated all through the New Testament, but the blind and unperceiving eyes of Christendom have for the most part failed to see it, believe it, or teach it.

The American Heritage College Dictionary: "type n  6. A figure, representation, or symbol of something to come, such as an event in the Old Testament that foreshadows another in the New Testament," p. 1485.  There are many such types beginning back in the the first chapter of Genesis.

Here are just two examples:  The Passover in ancient Israel was a type of its true fulfillment to come in our Lord's crucifixion, "Purge out therefore the old leaven that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened [but now speaking spiritually].  For even Christ our PASSOVER [Lamb] is sacrificed [crucified] for us " (I Cor. 5:7).  And James 1:18 clearly demonstrates the foreshadowing of the firstfruits harvest by saying:  "Of His own will begat He us with the word of truth, that we should be a KIND of firstfruits [of the Spring Harvest] of His creatures [not farm products]."  It is also important to note that whenever the word "first" is used, it always suggests more to follow -- there is never a Spring harvest without a following Fall harvest. We will now consider three of the Old Testament types that center on the harvest seasons.

In ancient Israel there were three times in the year when all men were to appear before God:

THE WAVE SHEAF (Feast of Unleavened Bread and Passover): "Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf OF the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest ... And ye shall offer that day when ye wave the sheaf an he lamb without blemish of the FIRST year for a burnt offering unto the Lord" (Lev. 23:10-12).

COMMENT: This wave sheaf of the very first of the firstfruits is a type of our Lord Who was the perfect Lamb without blemish offered in the Spring on Passover. "But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the FIRSTFRUIT of them that sleep" (I Cor. 15:20). Jesus is not the entire firstfruits but rather "the firstfruit OF them that sleep." He is the firstfruit OF the firstfruit or more precisely the "wave sheaf OF the firstfruits." Firstfruit is a term that pertains to agriculture and harvesting. It was never a theological term until introduced into the New Testament with regards to a small number who would be saved prior to a much larger number to be saved later.

THE FIRSTFRUITS (Feast of Weeks): "All the best of the oil , and all the best of the wine, and of the wheat, the FIRSTFRUITS of them which they shall offer unto the Lord, them have I given thee ... And whatsoever is FIRST RIPE in the land which they shall bring unto the Lord, shall be thine..." (Num. 18:12 & 13). "And now, behold, I have brought the firstfruits of the land, which thou, O Lord, has given me. And thou shalt set it before the LORD thy God, and worship before the Lord thy God" (Deut. 26:10).

COMMENT: The type in the New Testament of this Old Testament symbol is the Believer. Notice what James tells us, "Of His own will begat He us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of FIRSTFRUITS of His creatures" (James 1:18). Now a very important point: How far down the road in prophecy can we go until we reach the end of the firstfruits? In Rev. 7:4-8 we read of the sealing of the 144,000. These are a different group from the great innumerable multitude, which no man could number, from every nation and tongue spoken of beginning in verse 9.

In Chapter 14:1 & 4 we are told specifically who these 144,000 are: "And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Zion, and with Him an hundred forty and four thousand [notice that the innumerable multitudes from all nations is not mentioned here] ... These are they which were not defiled with women, for they are virgins [as in the Bride of Christ]. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, BEING THE FIRSTFRUITS unto God and to the Lamb" (Rev. 14:1 & 4). So every believer from the Apostles to the 144,000 just prior to the return of Jesus Christ to establish His reign on the earth, is called and likened to FIRSTFRUITS! So what does this have to do with the lake of fire? EVERYTHING! Everyone saved before the Day of Judging is likened to firstfruits, so there will be no more firstfruits after the white throne judgment.

Paul tells us in Rom. 8:23, "And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the FIRSTFRUITS of the Spirit..." Nowhere do we read of the "LASTFRUITS," but whenever something is FIRST we also know there is something to follow. Nor are there any references to any "ONLYFRUITS." The firstfruits are clearly not the ONLY fruits! Follow this very closely now, for you are in for a big shock when you understand the type in the fall festival of Tabernacles—the great fall harvest.

THE END-OF-THE-YEAR FEAST OF INGATHERING (Feast of Tabernacles): "And the feast of harvest, the firstfruits of thy labours, which thou has sown in the field and the FEAST OF INGATHERING, which is in the END OF THE YEAR, when you have gathered in thy labours out of the field" (Ex. 23:16).

"Thou shall observe the FEAST OF TABERNACLES seven [number of perfection] days, after that you have gathered in your corn and your wine: And you shall REJOICE IN YOUR FEAST, you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, the stranger, and the widow, that are within your gates [that's just about EVERYONE, wouldn't you say?]. Seven days [here's that perfect number again] shall you keep A SOLEMN FEAST [a very important feast to God] unto the LORD your God in the place which the Lord shall choose: because the Lord thy God shall bless you in all your increase, and in all the works of your hands, therefore you shalt surely REJOICE" (Deut. 16:13-15). Here truly was a festival in which EVERYONE, every single person in all Israel, and also did you notice, "the STRANGER" who was NOT an Israelite could really REJOICE! THIS FESTIVAL WAS THE HAPPIEST TIME OF THE YEAR! Do we think it will have no fulfillment in God's grand plan of salvation?

"Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, the fifteenth day of this seventh month shall be the FEAST OF TABERNACLES for seven days unto the LORD. On the first day shall be an holy convocation: you shall do no servile work therein. Seven days you shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD: on the EIGHTH DAY shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall offer an offering made by FIRE unto the LORD: it is a SOLEMN assembly; and you shall do no servile work therein" (Lev. 23:34-36). Why is the profound and marvelous truth of this festival not taught in its proper chronological order by the prophets of Christendom? How is it even possible to avoid seeing the powerful and glorious consummation of God's salvation in this Fall Harvest Festival? Why is the truth of this GREAT FEAST being hidden from the eyes of the world? What is it that they are trying to hide from us? God's Word will show us.

JESUS TAUGHT THE PURPOSE OF THE FALL HARVEST

The eighth day of this Feast of Tabernacles was called "The Last Great Day of the Feast." Jesus Christ Himself came to the Feast of Tabernacles in Jerusalem and spoke on the Last Great Day:

"In the last day, that GREAT DAY OF THE FEAST, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If ANY MAN thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of LIVING WATER" (John 7:37-38).

At what point in future prophecy, will Jesus Christ CUT OFF the invitation to all and any who are athirst to drink of His LIVING WATERS? Our Lord NEVER cuts off the invitation to drink of the living waters. These waters (a symbol for God's SPIRIT) will be available until every creature in heaven and earth is saved:

"And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the FOUNTAIN OF THE WATER OF LIFE FREELY" (Rev. 21:6).

"And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that hears say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And WHOSOEVER WILL, let him take the WATER OF LIFE FREELY" (Rev. 22:17).

And this declaration is made just five verses before the END OF THE BIBLE!

But don't be deceived, Jesus Christ IS the "tree of life" in the Garden, and NO ONE can partake of that tree of life except he first pass the through the "FLAMING SWORD" that points in all directions and guards the tree of life. Remember, "Our God is a CONSUMING FIRE" (Heb. 12:29).

So Tabernacles celebrated the great Fall harvest, the largest harvest of the whole year. It was this great Fall harvest that would sustain Israel through the winter months. There were far more products to be harvested in the END of the year than in the Spring of the year. Therefore this same type must carry over into the New Testament.

So here is where we are. There were THREE great festivals in the yearly calendar of Israel:

"THREE TIMES in a year shall all thy males appear before the LORD thy God in the place which He shall choose; in the feast of unleavened bread [which included Passover], and in the feast of weeks [firstfruits], and in the feast of tabernacles [the time of the great fall harvest]: and they shall not appear before the LORD empty" (Deut. 16:16).

First comes the wave sheaf, the very first of the firstfruits, on Passover, during the feast of unleavened bread. This represents CHRIST, the very first (wave sheaf) OF the firstfruit, our Passover sacrificed for us.

Second was the Feast of Weeks when the firstfruit of the land was harvested. This represents US, the FIRSTFRUIT to enter God's Kingdom. James says WE are the firstfruit of God (James 1:18).

Third came the great Fall harvest, the Feast of Tabernacles, a much much larger gathering, where ALL THE FALL HARVEST was gathered in! What does this Feast picture? This was the time of true REJOICING FOR EVERYONE. Absolutely EVERYONE. No one was left out of this great and final festival of the year:

"And thou shalt rejoice IN THY FEAST [of Tabernacles, the fall harvest], YOU, and your SON, and your DAUGHTER, and your MANSERVANT, and your MAIDSERVANT, and the LEVITE, the STRANGER [GENTILES], and the FATHERLESS, and the WIDOW, that are within your gates" (Deut. 16:14).

NO ONE was EXCLUDED! EVERYONE was INCLUDED!

And so we see in the New Testament that these three festivals of ancient Israel are really TYPES in God's master plan of salvation. Christ the FIRST of the firstfruit. Then believers, the FIRSTFRUITS. And then the great FALL HARVEST.

But wait a minute. We know that Christ was the First of the firstfruit to be resurrected to life. We also know that all the believing saints who are to reign with Christ at His coming are the rest of the firstfruits. So where then does the great fall harvest of souls come into God's family? When have you ever been taught about the great fall harvest, which excludes no one but includes everyone? There is a reason why you haven't heard the truth of these Scriptures in Christendom.

According to Christendom THERE IS NO GREAT FALL HARVEST OF SOULS at the end of the ages!

That's right, they say there will be NO Fall Harvest in God's Kingdom. Just how do they account for such a thing? Is God such an inept and unskilled Farmer that He has a total crop failure when Fall harvest time comes, or will He just BURN THE ENTIRE HARVEST in the eternal fires of some fabled hell?

Read the entire article here: http://bible-truths.com/lake4.html

Peace,

Joe

[aqrinc]

Wow Sisters and Brothers,

Now i begin to remember this story that has perplexed me for years . Thanks for posting this Scripture and
Ray's explanation again Today. Over 25 years ago i had an understanding of this Prophecy that was very close
to Ray's writings but totally bollixed it with the damnable heresy of Christendom.

Brenda, thanks for bringing up the subject that lead me and many others to this Great Declaration Of GOD'S
Word Jesus Christ in the OT. After the pounding of these last few weeks, at last i can again rest for a little
while and reread these stunning Truths with new eyes of understanding.

Love Peace Power Salvation and Understanding,

Holy

george.

Isaiah 11:2:
And the spirit of the LORD shall rest on him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might,
the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;

Any comments on the gold and the silver, the bronze, the iron, the tin and the lead?

Thanks,
Brenda

Brenda,

I hesitated for a long time responding to this as it is not really covered in the articles but I believe that the metals are consistant in the pattern set forth in the Feasts, Temple (layout), Harvests & livestock.

Gold = Christ

Silver = Elect/Chosen/Remnant

Bronze = Christianity (bronze is a mixture of copper & tin)

Iron, Tin, Lead = Nations/world/unbelievers

We know Christ is the Head, the First in all things and the order of those who follow into the Kingdom (salvation) are represented by different natural/earthly symbols as well as the testimony of the Prophets and the customs of the Jews laid out in the OT.

The following is from LOF Part 4, I believe you will see this pattern demonstrated in what Ray wrote here;

THE THREE FESTIVALS AND THE SALVATION OF ALL

There is a beautiful type in the Old Testament that clearly demonstrates when and in what manner all these Unsaved masses will be saved. This Old Testament type is illustrated all through the New Testament, but the blind and unperceiving eyes of Christendom have for the most part failed to see it, believe it, or teach it.

The American Heritage College Dictionary: "type n  6. A figure, representation, or symbol of something to come, such as an event in the Old Testament that foreshadows another in the New Testament," p. 1485.  There are many such types beginning back in the the first chapter of Genesis.

Here are just two examples:  The Passover in ancient Israel was a type of its true fulfillment to come in our Lord's crucifixion, "Purge out therefore the old leaven that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened [but now speaking spiritually].  For even Christ our PASSOVER [Lamb] is sacrificed [crucified] for us " (I Cor. 5:7).  And James 1:18 clearly demonstrates the foreshadowing of the firstfruits harvest by saying:  "Of His own will begat He us with the word of truth, that we should be a KIND of firstfruits [of the Spring Harvest] of His creatures [not farm products]."  It is also important to note that whenever the word "first" is used, it always suggests more to follow -- there is never a Spring harvest without a following Fall harvest. We will now consider three of the Old Testament types that center on the harvest seasons.

In ancient Israel there were three times in the year when all men were to appear before God:

THE WAVE SHEAF (Feast of Unleavened Bread and Passover): "Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf OF the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest ... And ye shall offer that day when ye wave the sheaf an he lamb without blemish of the FIRST year for a burnt offering unto the Lord" (Lev. 23:10-12).

COMMENT: This wave sheaf of the very first of the firstfruits is a type of our Lord Who was the perfect Lamb without blemish offered in the Spring on Passover. "But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the FIRSTFRUIT of them that sleep" (I Cor. 15:20). Jesus is not the entire firstfruits but rather "the firstfruit OF them that sleep." He is the firstfruit OF the firstfruit or more precisely the "wave sheaf OF the firstfruits." Firstfruit is a term that pertains to agriculture and harvesting. It was never a theological term until introduced into the New Testament with regards to a small number who would be saved prior to a much larger number to be saved later.


But wait a minute. We know that Christ was the First of the firstfruit to be resurrected to life. We also know that all the believing saints who are to reign with Christ at His coming are the rest of the firstfruits. So where then does the great fall harvest of souls come into God’s family? When have you ever been taught about the great fall harvest, which excludes no one but includes everyone? There is a reason why you haven’t heard the truth of these Scriptures in Christendom.

According to Christendom THERE IS NO GREAT FALL HARVEST OF SOULS at the end of the ages!

That’s right, they say there will be NO Fall Harvest in God’s Kingdom. Just how do they account for such a thing? Is God such an inept and unskilled Farmer that He has a total crop failure when Fall harvest time comes, or will He just BURN THE ENTIRE HARVEST in the eternal fires of some fabled hell?

Read the entire article here: http://bible-truths.com/lake4.html

Peace,

Joe

[Dennis Vogel]

Gold = Christ

Silver = Elect/Chosen/Remnant

Bronze = Christianity (bronze is a mixture of copper & tin)

Iron, Tin, Lead = Nations/world/unbelievers

But we have a problem here Joe:

Act 17:29  Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

Dennis

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Dennis,

I certainly would agree if we were to take this literally rather than prophetically. How would we interpret the following?

1Co 10:4  And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Mat 21:42  Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the Scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes?

Mar 12:10  And have ye not read this Scripture; The stone which the builders rejected is become the head of the corner:

Luk 20:17  And he beheld them and said, What is this then that is written, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner?

Isn't Jesus comparing Himself to a building stone? We know this is symbolic not to be taken literally, I believe this same principle holds true albeit in different prophetic/symbolic language.

Also, what is Christ saying in regard to "buying gold tried in the fire" isn't anything and everything tied to our salvation rooted in Jesus Christ?

Rev 3:18  I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eye salve, that thou mayest see.

Perhaps I am totally off base (but it needs to be proven false scripturally) but I see Christ (prophetically speaking) as the gold, the white raiment and the eye salve.

There are many more examples I could give in regard to this.

Peace,

Joe

[Carlos31]

wow nice verse.

num 31:21

[Carlos31]

exactly Dennis.

the gold, silver and all that, ARE WORKS!!

MAN WORKS!!!



Whether a person builds on this foundation with gold, silver, expensive stones, wood, hay, or straw,
1Co 3:13  the workmanship of each person will become evident, for the day will show what it is, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person's work.
1Co 3:14  If what a person has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward.
1Co 3:15  If his work is burned up, he will suffer loss. However, he himself will be saved, but it will be like going through fire.


Jesus IS THE ROCK, NOT A MATERIAL, Jesus is the foundation, and you put your works on him.

then they shall be tried

[Akira329]

exactly Dennis.

the gold, silver and all that, ARE WORKS!!

MAN WORKS!!!



Whether a person builds on this foundation with gold, silver, expensive stones, wood, hay, or straw,
1Co 3:13  the workmanship of each person will become evident, for the day will show what it is, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person's work.
1Co 3:14  If what a person has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward.
1Co 3:15  If his work is burned up, he will suffer loss. However, he himself will be saved, but it will be like going through fire.


Jesus IS THE ROCK, NOT A MATERIAL, Jesus is the foundation, and you put your works on him.

then they shall be tried

Just like to add to your post Carlos:
From Rays Lake of Fire Part One: Physical Fire vs. Spiritual Fire
"For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is JESUS CHRIST. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, WOOD, HAY, STUBBLE; Every man's work shall be made manifest; for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed BY FIRE; and the FIRE shall TRY EVERY MAN'S WORK of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be BURNED, he shall SUFFER LOSS; but [pay close attention to this BIG BUT] BUT HE HIMSELF [the one who had his works burned and consumed in God's consuming fire] SHALL BE SAVED [What will save him?], yet so AS BY FIRE" (I Cor. 3:11-15)!!!

Ah dear readers, can we begin to understand the workings of God? God consumes with fire, the wood, hay and stubble in our lives. The things that don't deserve to continue. But he REFINES the gold, silver, and precious stones (those doctrines and godly character traits of God's spirit that abide the fire). It is figurative language, it is an analogy, it is a parable, it is metaphorical (where one thing is called another thing). Our lives have either qualities of character (which are likened to gold and precious stones, things of value to refine and retain), or gross lacks in character (which are likened to wood, hay, and stubble and which are not worthy to retain or preserve).

And just as real literal fire is used to refine and purify gold and precious metals, so God's SPIRITUAL FIRE refines and purifies us from our sinful and carnal nature. And likewise, as real literal fire is used to burn up wood and stubble, so God's all consuming SPIRITUAL FIRE will consume and burn up all the impurities in our life. These things MUST DIE. This purging is the SECOND DEATH. And whether the person God subjects to His consuming fire has many good qualities or none, the person himself shall be purged, purified, and SAVED BY GOD'S ALL-CONSUMING SPIRITUAL FIRE!!! We just read it in God's Holy Word. How can any deny it? Every person who has ever lived will be subjected to the cleaning fire of God's spirit.

Wood, Hay, and Straw are burned in the fire(Lake of Fire)
Metals are purified or refined in the fire(Lake of Fire)
Right! He himself shall be saved!

Psa 12:6  The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

I also find these passages intereseting in light of whats to be burned and refined:

Revelations being a book of symbols
Rev 18:2  And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
Rev 18:3  For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

Rev 18:9  And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
Rev 18:10  Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
Rev 18:11  And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
Rev 18:12  The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,
Rev 18:13  And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.
Rev 18:14  And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.
Rev 18:15  The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,
Rev 18:16  And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!
Rev 18:17  For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,
Rev 18:18  And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!
Rev 18:19  And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.
Rev 18:20  Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

Does anyone else find significance in these passages of scriptrue?
These seem to be all the things burned and refined in the fire(God consuming fire or even by Gods word?)

Hey Joe
I see a lot of symbols similar to these but I have yet to understand there significance or connection to Christ, though I believe they do have a connection!! As I also believe Christ is the very image, substance and reality or all these types and shadows.

There's so many!
I believe sometimes I can't grasp the significance unless I know about a certain symbol such as Gold.
If I didn't know its refined in fire what would it mean to me spiritually speaking. Hope that made sense.

Antaiwan

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Antaiwan,

Being refined is a metaphor for learning obedience to the will of God, who is our example?

Heb 5:8  Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

Jesus IS THE ROCK, NOT A MATERIAL, Jesus is the foundation, and you put your works on him.

Eph 2:20  And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

Pe 2:6  Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Zion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

1Pe 2:7  Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, 

Hi Carlos,

This language being used is spiritual and symbolic, it is not literal, is Christ really a lamb?

Joh 1:29  The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Is every scriptural reference to lambs speak of Christ? Of course not.

1Co 15:23  But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Is Christ a crop to be harvested, is He even every scriptural reference to firstfruits? No & no.

Scripture is full of symbolism and some things refer to the natural others refer to the spiritual many to both, on multiple levels. Gold in the natural is quite different than it's spiritual meaning, just like "lamb" and many, many others.

What is this saying to you?

2Ti 2:20  But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some  to honor, and some to dishonor.

Is this some meaningless bit about expensive and cheap water pitchers in some guy's house? Do you see the same 4 part pattern here as we did in the metals mentioned in Numbers 31:21? The pitchers get progressively cheaper and more bountiful as we go through the list.

Let us all pray for spiritual discernment as we journey together.

Peace,

Joe

[aqrinc]

Rodger and Joe,

The only thing i can contribute is to say thanks for the Scriptures and the exposition of them to us.

george.

[Akira329]

What is this saying to you?

2Ti 2:20  But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some  to honor, and some to dishonor.

Is this some meaningless bit about expensive and cheap water pitchers in some guy's house? Do you see the same 4 part pattern here as we did in the metals mentioned in Numbers 31:21? The pitchers get progressively cheaper and more bountiful as we go through the list.

Let us all pray for spiritual discernment as we journey together.

Peace,

Joe

Hey Joe and Rodger Thanks for those scriptures!!

Joe,
Is the scripture your referring to above speaking about the many are called few are chosen?

And,
21And Eleazar the priest said unto the men of war which went to the battle, This is the ordinance of the law which the LORD commanded Moses;
22Only the gold, and the silver, the brass, the iron, the tin, and the lead,
(Then we are speaking of teasures right or good works?)
23Every thing that may abide the fire, ye shall make it go through the fire, and it shall be clean: nevertheless it shall be purified with the water of separation: and all that abideth not the fire ye shall make go through the water.
(When tried in the fire abide or refined?)
24And ye shall wash your clothes on the seventh day, and ye shall be clean, and afterward ye shall come into the camp.
(Also are garments are made clean, washed white or pure)
(and then we can enter the camp or the Kingdom of God)
(Am I understanding?)
This scripture seems to reveal Gods purification process!
This is such a great scripture Brenda! Glad you found this!
I love the discussion!

Antaiwan