Vegan

[G. Driggs]

Your absolutely right Kathy. I thought and prayed more about this and Im really beginning to think the verses I used are for spiritual, immortal life in the next age and they are not necessarily talking about physical food or physical death. Obviously if we sin we can expect spiritual death, because everyone dies physically, but not everyone will receive immortality in the next age. No doubt everyone will eventually receive immortality someday.  

I also realized I was just being stubborn and I really dont want to change my eating habits which is why I was feeling guilty. I just now got through watching Dr. Steigers video, and I think I will try to change some of my eating habits. It cant possibly hurt, and I really do feel unhealthy at times. Maybe start by changing a couple things at first and see where that takes me. I can quit milk, beef and pork no prob and maybe even the soda pop, but I think the hardest part is gonna be the coffee and cigarettes. Lord help me!

Thanks again Kathy and everyone else.

G.Driggs

[Ninny]

Marques, thank you..you used the scriptures to my paraphrase! 
George..always remember that God knows every motive and every thought..so let His love fill you, my brother!!
Kathy

[G. Driggs]

Thats some good Scripture Marques, I completely forgot about that, it really helps, thank you.

Peace, G.Driggs

[Kat]

Hi George,

The normal way the the body system works as these Scriptures states is, "everything that enters the mouth goes into the stomach. Then it goes out of the body" (Mat 15:17).  So we eat and our body takes what it needs and the rest passes through, this is talking about the physical processes of the body, not the spiritual.  So your body is not "unclean," because of occasionally eating something improper, as it passes on out of the body or by not following some standard of cleanliness.  Think about the dietary habits at that time too... much different than most of what we have today.  But this was talking about the physical and how it does not make you "unclean" as some at that time were saying.  

Mat 15:2  "Why do Your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread."

But then comes the great spiritual lessons for us, "But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart. "Those are the things that make you 'unclean' " (v. 18), SPIRITUALLY.  Our heart is the seat of our emotions and morals and is where our personality comes from and that is the difference being expressed here.  As Kathy was saying 'God looks on the heart.'
Notice a few comments Ray made on this.

http://bible-truths.com/lake9.html -----------------

Notice Prov. 23:7, "For as he THINKS in his heart, SO IS HE." The 'heart' is the innermost seat of our deepest emotions, but it is accessed through the MIND. It is what one thinks that determines what one is.

http://bible-truths.com/lake3.html ------------------

This next fact doesn't necessarily "prove" anything, it's just the way my mind works. Jesus Christ said:

"O generation of vipers, how can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the ABUNDANCE of the heart the MOUTH SPEAKS" (Mat. 12:34).

I think we all understand that statement: What is heaviest and most dominant on our heart is what we talk about the most.
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So it is the spiritual that is by far the most important.  
But I want to add that most of our diets today are a far cry from what they should be, certainly since the time of Jesus most of our eating habits have changed considerably.  With all the modern conveniences of stores filled with processed foods, we can take the easy way to get our foods at the expense of our health.  You know the saying, 'you are what you eat'... well to me this means that the healthier the foods, the healthier the body will be.  So physically in the long run the food you eat plays a big role in our health.  

Now certainly you can not gain spirituality from eating a healthy diet.  But I believe we have to do the best we can with what we have and so as we learn spiritual truth we should apply them in our lives.  Likewise, while we are yet physical, when we learn how to better take care of our physical body, we should make the effort to change what we can as we are able.  Sure everybodies life situations are different, so no one can judge another as to what they are able to do.  I just thin we are to try to do the best we can, as God reveals things to us, then that is what He wants 

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Ninny]

Amen, Kat!! Thanks!
Kathy

[Astrapho]

Well I've read somewhere that an animal that has been humanely treated (ie. they're able to graze around, no chemicals force fed to them or anything etc.etc.) tastes noticeably different from one that's... Uhh I call it "factory produced". That's a scary thought. o.o

Lol well written, Kat.

[daywalker]

Not all animals are tortured and such... My wife and I usually buy organic meat and it'll say on the box/container whether the animals are well taken care of or not... Like for example, we always get eggs from cage-free farms.

Besides the moral issue some have, the better the animals are treated [are they fed well? etc], the better quality of the food.

Just my 2 cents; I'm no expert in the field though...


Daywalker


PS. I just wanted to add... this verse is what got my attention:

Acts 15:20 We should simply write and tell them not to eat anything that has been offered to idols. They should be told not to eat the meat of any animal that has been strangled or that still has blood in it. They must also not commit any terrible sexual sins. [Contemporary English Version]

Well, I'm aware that 'animals' isn't in the Greek, and the literal translation is "from that which is strangled", I believe this is an accurate interpretation of what was meant.

Greetings,

What do you guys think about veganism?

My wife brought this issue to my attention and advocated for us to become vegans. Now, I love meat and have never thought twice about eating it, but the things that she told me about how these animals were treated was disturbing to say the least.

As Christians,should we participate in a practice that ,for the most part, completely disregards the ethical treatment of animals?

If you are curious to see what I am talking about, PETA has plenty of information and videos.

Comments are welcome!

-Shaine


P.S.- I personally would still like to continue to eat meat, just not from animals that are raised inhumanely.

[Dave in Tenn]

George, I think the rule is:  If it's on the floor for less than 4 seconds, you can eat it.   

Remember:  We can sin when we fast, and live rightly when we feast.  You want scripture, I got that too.   

[Ninny]

Dave, you made me laugh!!  and you're right about the feasting and fasting...and that 4 second rule would really depend on where you dropped it, yes?? heeheehee!!!
Kathy

[shaine]

Hey guys,
thanks again for all the help  .  Many of you have pointed out that it is not what goes into a body that makes one unclean but what comes out.  This is what the Lord tells us so it is true. 

But if the cruelty has been brought to my attention, and it has become an offense to me, am I in sin if I overlook that offense for the pleasure of my stomach?
 
"All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offense." from Romans 14.

I am in no way saying that all men who eat meat are in sin, but are those of us who grieve over the treatment of animals in sin if we continue to eat meat?

One day the Lord may set a plate of meat down in front of you so you can see whether you choose love and thankfulness or beliefs and 'religion'.  Love trumps even faith.  Me?  I'll have a little, thank you very much...and God bless you.          

Dave, you are 100% right  .  Love and gratitude are always weightier matters that diet plans. We are to eat whatever is set before us with gratitude.

Casey

[Linny]

Absolutely agree with you Ninny on the soy. Soy products that most use are all over processed foods. Little girls should NEVER eat them either. And I heard from an excellent source  that a common denominator for children with tumors and cancers was being on soy formula. 
And CottonPicker, I see this as I see most things in life these days. We tend to take very seriously the Scripture regarding not conforming to this world but being transformed by the renewing of our minds. You are right, most are not interested. But you are not alone in your
non-conformity.
We feel blessed to have been shown the truths of God's amazing love for us through Ray and others and we feel blessed to not fear disease anymore.
Lin

[Dave in Tenn]

Hey guys,
thanks again for all the help  .  Many of you have pointed out that it is not what goes into a body that makes one unclean but what comes out.  This is what the Lord tells us so it is true.  

But if the cruelty has been brought to my attention, and it has become an offense to me, am I in sin if I overlook that offense for the pleasure of my stomach?
 
"All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offense." from Romans 14.

Hi again, Casey.  I don't see any 'sin' here (in Romans 14) directly concerning eating or not eating.  I see 'sin' in "...And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin."  A concience or intentional choice/belief to refrain from meat is described as 'weak'.  So it's a matter, since all things are clean, of weaker or stronger, more or less mature.  And neither are to judge the other over things which are not sin.  I think that's the point.

So the short version again is...you can not eat whatever you do not want.    Nobody here is going to condemn you for such a tender-hearted choice.    I'll just be careful either preparing or choosing to invite you on my next picnic.      

[G. Driggs]

George, I think the rule is:  If it's on the floor for less than 4 seconds, you can eat it.   

Haha good one Dave, did you ever see the episode of mythbusters where they test that theory? Here is an excerpt from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MythBusters_%282005_season%29#Five-second_Rule
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Myth statement    
The "Five-second rule" is valid when it comes to food dropped on the floor.

Status
Busted

Notes
This myth yielded a varied number of results, but in the definitive test where the only variable was time, the myth was definitively busted. There was no real difference in the number of bacteria collected from 2 seconds exposure as there was from 6 seconds exposure.
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I thought that was pretty interesting, considering my previous fear of germs.

G.Driggs

[ez2u]

okay  vegan is not that good for you unless you go raw.  this support your minerals and vitamins which can be cooked out of your foods   also the life of the food is in the raw  enzymes.  which greatly aids in digestion absorption cellular   a few foods should be cooked  slowly in an oven like squash  but raw fooder would debate that  its a science  and after going the whole gamete  i found  that i prefer raw food  there are some wonderful receipts on you tube but  its hard to do when you are not in a supportive setting.  my body mind  function best  and it makes you look prettier too   peggy

[Kat]

Hi Peggy,

I can see the benefits of raw foods, as raw foods are 'living' food and better for you.  Cooked food is devoid of enzymes, which the body needs in the digestion and absorption of food. So we should make sure we get a daily helping of living (raw) foods, like crisp colorful salads and fresh ripe fruits or veggies and their juices.  Ones that you grow yourself or purchased at a farmers market (organic) are much fresher and better for you. 

There are so many food diets out there that people claim will lead to the greatest health benefits, I think we need to try to keep things in moderation.  Variety seems a good way to go, not too much of any one type, keeping to the fresh and the less processed the better.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[shaine]

Hey Everybody,

Okay, after all the hoopla I made, I've decided not to be a vegan. 

Through the Lord's Spirit and all of your wonderful feedback, I know for sure that there is nothing holy in that diet, or any other for that matter.  Though I do feel badly about what the animals go through, I know that they have been given to us to eat by God.  Jesus ate fish and lamb while He was in the flesh and I'm not going to try to be holier than Him! 

This diet is so radical compared to my normal diet that I would need serious conviction to follow it, and I just don't have that.  I don't want the animals to be abused and so I am glad for animal rights groups, and will pray for them to succeed in changing the lives of livestock.  I think I'll leave it at that.  After doing some research, it seems like most these groups think it is wrong to eat any animals, for the reason that they are living creatures.  I don't agree with that and neither does God.

Also, I thought it would be a lot healthier, but I heard that vegan diets can make women infertile!  Definitely not healthy!!  Thanks again for all your input!

Casey

[Linny]

Yes Casey, veganism is a religion of sorts. That is why when I was eating vegan, I didn't call it that so as not to be confusing to anyone about why I was doing it.
I do plan on going on a mucousless diet beginning in January, for a season, to heal some things that have been needing to go away. But it will not be forever. It is basically a "vegan" diet by another name. A great healing diet if you need that.