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[ez2u]

I recently went to a pilgrimage at my sisters catholic church.  It was 7 hours long in ceremonies .  The priest talking than the audience responding.  There was a healing service, which the priest at the end anointed those that came up.  A service for the dead where they prayed for their dead and a peace service where they prayed for peace for 2.5 hours.  Every service was very traditional very formal.    Each person had their role to do.  The priest and Bishops had robes on   with big hats and they sang the scriptures instead of reading them.  Are you getting the picture now?  One of the Byzantine Franciscans.  One of the Programs passed out I saved to share with you what was written in it  that the people was to respond back to the priest.  Here is what was written

Open to us the doors of mercy, O Blessed Mother of God, that we who place our trust in you may not perish, but that through you we be delivered from all misfortune; for you are the salvation of all Christians.

I talk briefly with my sister and her husband about this and it was very apparent they had been blind to what this was really saying.  Their doctrine blind them to the truth as to what they are truly worshiping.  A den of Demons. 

[Phil3:10]

Ez2U,
Amen, to your den of demons quote. This is the most pagan of the institutional, organized, denominational christian churches and I do feel it is the mother church of all Christianity. This is why I want to be in the Body of CHRIST but not in Christianity. It is only JESUS, THE CHRIST, the SON of THE LIVING GOD that matters and most churches just stand in HIS perfect way. However, there are some wonderful people in each church and JESUS love them all. Keep praying that this deception will die away and all will come to know HIM who is everything.
In HIM,
Phil3:10

[firefly77]

Open to us the doors of mercy, O Blessed Mother of God, that we who place our trust in you may not perish, but that through you we be delivered from all misfortune; for you are the salvation of all Christians.

My mouth just dropped open 
I don't get shocked so easily anymore, but this did.
Thanks for sharing this.

Angie

[OBrenda]

That was my reaction......SHOCK!

[daywalker]

Yea,

I never understood why Catholics put so much more emphasis on Mary, rather than Jesus Christ. I've always wondered when it started, but haven't yet taken the time to research it. I imagine that it started around the same time they started praying to the [dead] Apostles.

Not too long ago, I was talking to someone who is a Catholic, and she mentioned that she prays to Mary and the Saints. I told her that if she wanted her prayers answered she should stop praying to dead people and start praying to the Living God. Amazingly, she was offended by my comments.

The Spiritual Darkness and Deception that has overcome this world, especially Christendom is mind-boggling to say the least. But what's more mind-boggling is that we, too, were overcome by this same Darkness, until Christ shown His Light on us.

That's the REAL shocker...


Peace, Out

Daywalker 

[aqrinc]

Yea,

I never understood why Catholics put so much more emphasis on Mary, rather than Jesus Christ. I've always wondered when it started, but haven't yet taken the time to research it. I imagine that it started around the same time they started praying to the [dead] Apostles.

Not too long ago, I was talking to someone who is a Catholic, and she mentioned that she prays to Mary and the Saints. I told her that if she wanted her prayers answered she should stop praying to dead people and start praying to the Living God. Amazingly, she was offended by my comments.

The Spiritual Darkness and Deception that has overcome this world, especially Christendom is mind-boggling to say the least. But what's more mind-boggling is that we, too, were overcome by this same Darkness, until Christ shown His Light on us.

That's the REAL shocker...


Peace, Out

Daywalker 

Amen.

There but for The Grace Of GOD; go i, and you and you and you and, get the message ?.

Eph 2: 8-9 (MKJV)
8  For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God,
9  not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Below is one long verse.

Col 1: 21-26 (MKJV)
21  And you, who were once alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled
22  in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy and without blemish, and without charge in His sight,

23  if indeed you continue in the faith grounded and settled, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which you have heard and which was proclaimed in all the creation under Heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister,

24  who now rejoice in my sufferings on your behalf, and I fill up the things lacking of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh, on behalf of His body, which is the church;

25  of which I became a minister, according to the administration of God given to me for you, to fulfill the Word of God;
26  the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but now has been revealed to His saints.

george.

[darren]

Hey everybody, I just wanted to throw my two cents worth on this topic. I went to Catholic school from the first grade to the fourth grade. Even at that age I felt uneasy going into the BOX (confession box) every Fri. Then the wait in line in order to eat the wafer (The Body of Christ). Then ever Sunday going to church. I remember being in the pew kneeling down and praying to a statue of Jesus or  Mary. They even had statues of a few Saints. I remember asking one of the priest  why do I have to pray to the Saint and He said because they will bring your prayer to God. Then in my high school yrs I befriend a kid who went to a Catholic school. Him and his parents would go to church every Sunday. I asked him why do we have to pray to the saints and he gave me the same reason that the priest gave me yrs before. When I became an adult I stopped going to the Catholic church. I started reading and studying God;s word on my own. I found out that I did not have to pray to the saints in order for my prayers to be heard. Now,, Is it not a sin to pray to a statue no matter who the statue is. JESUS, Mary, or the Saints. I s it not true that one does not have to go in the box and tell his sins to a man wearing a robe. Why does this man forgives me in Gods name. Why do I need a middle man. Jesus died for all of mankind. would not this make Him the man. As I just read, when we pray The Holy Spirit intercedes on our behalf. Anyway I can keep on going on about the catholic religion. OH YEA, my nice was going to a catholic school last yrs and I started reading Ray's papers. Rays papers hit me like a ton of bricks. I finally found a teacher who teaches the thing I believe. Man you know when you first found out the truth about hell  How sometime you just want to so I knew it and I can't wait to tell someone? Well in my family that someone was my nieces priest. The priest would tell her their truth on hell then she would ask me what do I think, first I would tell her what I believe and then I would show her. I would show her Ray;s papers hell. or what ever subject they were discussing at the time. When she went back to school she would get into trouble. They would show their contempt by calling her mother or request her mother to come in. She hated that. Sorry for rambling on like this, but this topic about the catholics has been on my mind for a very long time. There's so much more but enough is enough.



                                           Thank  you so much for letting me rant.
  PS great topic ez2u

                                                             
                                                             Darren

[Astrapho]

Lolyes Darren I share your thoughts.

I'm still in Catholicism (Although in name only), and I'm still under the Confirmation. They can seriously say "Mother Mary leads us to salvation" and think it's ok. They can say "Hail Holy Queen Mother of Mercy" and think it's ok. Here's an excerpt in a book "The Secret of the Rosary":

"DeMontFort calls the rosary "The mystical rose tree of Jesus and Mary in life, death, and eternity." He says that the roses of your rosary will never wilt or die, and they will be just as exquisite thousands of years from now as they are today."

Uhm no my rosary rusted a long time ago.

"Are you in the miserable state of sin? Then call on the divine Mary and say to her: Ave, which means "I salute thee with the most profound respect, thou who art without sin" and she will deliver you from the evil of your sins.

Are you groping in the darkness of ignorance and error? Go to Mary and say to her: Hail Mary; which means "Hail thou who art bathed in the light of the Sun of Justice"-- and she will give you some of her light.



Have you strayed from the path leading to Heaven? Then call on Mary, for her name means "Star of the Sea, the North Star which guides the ships of our souls during the voyage of this life," and she will guide you to the harbor of eternal salvation."

EDIT: I'm sorry, that was NOT the worst.

"I should like to give you even more reason for embracing this devotion which so many great souls have practised; the Rosary recited with meditation on the mysteries brings about the following marvelous results:

1. It gradually gives us a perfect knowledge of Jesus Christ.
2. It purifies our souls, washing away sin.
3. It gives us victory over all our enemies.
4. It makes it easy for us to practise virtue.
5. It sets us on fire with love of our Blessed Lord. (Comment: I've never felt it through the Rosary.)
6. It enriches us with graces and merits.
7. CLIMAX:IT SUPPLIES WHAT IS NEEDED TO PAY ALL OUR DEBTS TO GOD and to our fellow men, and finally, it OBTAINS ALL KINDS OF GRACES FOR US FROM ALMIGHTY GOD."

NO! -tears out hair-

And so on, and so forth. This obviously completely blasphemous book has sold MORE THAN A MILLION COPIES.
  
I'm feeling so disgusted it's not even funny. After reading this book, I didn't even want to say the rosary anymore, even if I don't mean it.

[arion]

I certainly don't want to club anyone over the head with a scripture and of course the Protestant churches are just as guilty as the Catholic ones albeit in different ways at times yet I have to point out that once we know the truth of these things should be still go to their services and go through the motions with them?

Rev 18:4  And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

I know it's easier said than done and being single I don't have to placate a spouse or children.  However the blashpemy and paganism is getting so rank in the institutional churches of men how much longer can we tolerate having anything to do with them?  The churches and the organization of course....not the people that are caught up in the deception.

[NoviceBeliever]

I have to say, not to proudly, I use to be a Catholic Basher.  I never quite understood the meaning of all the ritualistic behaviors that the church practiced.  And I could never get the fact that the catholic church uses a book of catachism instead of actually reading from the bible  But how can we condemn others, when it is only through GOD opening our own eyes that we have the understanding that we do. GODS ways are not our ways and only he knows the grand plan. NB 

Rom 14: 1-23 (CLV)
1  Welcome all the Lord's followers, even those whose faith is weak. Don't criticize them for having beliefs that are different from yours.
2  Some think it is all right to eat anything, while those whose faith is weak will eat only vegetables.
3  But you should not criticize others for eating or for not eating. After all, God welcomes everyone.
4  What right do you have to criticize someone else's servants? Only their Lord can decide if they are doing right, and the Lord will make sure that they do right.
5  Some of the Lord's followers think one day is more important than another. Others think all days are the same. But each of you should make up your own mind.
6  Any followers who count one day more important than another day do it to honor their Lord. And any followers who eat meat give thanks to God, just like the ones who don't eat meat.
7  Whether we live or die, it must be for God, rather than for ourselves.
8  Whether we live or die, it must be for the Lord. Alive or dead, we still belong to the Lord.
9  This is because Christ died and rose to life, so that he would be the Lord of the dead and of the living. (Dead Spiritually)
10  Why do you criticize other followers of the Lord? Why do you look down on them? The day is coming when God will judge all of us.
11  In the Scriptures God says, "I swear by my very life that everyone will kneel down and praise my name!"
12  And so, each of us must give an account to God for what we do.
13  We must stop judging others. We must also make up our minds not to upset anyone's faith.
14  The Lord Jesus has made it clear to me that God considers all foods fit to eat. But if you think some foods are unfit to eat, then for you they are not fit.
15  If you are hurting others by the foods you eat, you are not guided by love. Don't let your appetite destroy someone Christ died for.
16  Don't let your right to eat bring shame to Christ.

[daywalker]

I certainly don't want to club anyone over the head with a scripture and of course the Protestant churches are just as guilty as the Catholic ones albeit in different ways at times yet I have to point out that once we know the truth of these things should be still go to their services and go through the motions with them?

Rev 18:4  And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

I know it's easier said than done and being single I don't have to placate a spouse or children.  However the blashpemy and paganism is getting so rank in the institutional churches of men how much longer can we tolerate having anything to do with them?  The churches and the organization of course....not the people that are caught up in the deception.

Hello,

I hear you there, brother. I haven't [nor do I even desire to..] attended a church service since 2007. A few weeks ago, though, I went with my sister to the Annual "Fish Fest 2009" in Irvine, Ca. The Fish is a Christian radio station [94.9 FM, Orange County], and they have an annual 'festival' with various Christian bands and singers. I went because I like a few of the rock bands [namely, "Red", "Jars of Clay" and "This Beautiful Republic"].

Anyway, before the 'main event' band played [Mercy Me--my sister's fav...] there was this guy who spoke [don't remember his name...]. He was a Christian Comedian/Speaker. Well, after an entertaining testimony of his childhood and growing up, he started to get a little 'preachy'. I sat there and, in my head, basically picked his message apart, almost everything he said caused Scriptures to poor into my head, me thinking, well that's not true because this verse says this, and so on and so on... A few times I said stuff out loud and my sister just rolled her eyes at me. She's not really for or against my beliefs, as she agrees that 'hell' is just a fear-factor, and free will doesn't make sense... but she doesn't like to "get into all that philosophical stuff" [direct quote].

Then one of Mercy Me's songs were dedicated to the American Soldiers, and I told my sister, how come Christians are supporting and applauding men who kill our enemies, when Jesus says to "love your enemies"?

But the MOST IRONIC and SHOCKING part was when the lead singer was talking about his Dad who had recently passed away. He said that many told him that his dad was looking down on him from Heaven, but he [the singer] didn't believe them because he's never read a Scripture to support that [that's true...], but THEN he says that he believes his Dad has much better things to do like singing praises to his God [Wait, what? Where's the Scripture for that one? I thought he was 'dead'?].

That just about threw me outta my chair! He doesn't believe that people who've died and are in Heaven are looking down on us, because God's Word never says such... which is TRUE... BUT, ...BUT he believes that people who have died, go to Heaven and sing praises to God... which is FALSE, as God's Word never says such! And we have a direct Scripture that proves such:

Psalms 115:17 The dead cannot praise Yah, Nor all those descending into stillness.

*scratches head* 


Anyways, sorry, I wasn't planning on this post being so long... Peace, Out

Daywalker. 

[Astrapho]

But how can we condemn others, when it is only through GOD opening our own eyes that we have the understanding that we do. GODS ways are not our ways and only he knows the grand plan. NB

Yes. We're no better than the others still in Babylon, all that we have, we have only through God's grace and not of ourselves. The clay can't form itself.  

Joh 15:5  I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Ahah, that reminds me, I hope I don't come off as condemning the Catholic faith. I mean they do a lot of good works and serve the community (I actually went painting poor folks' houses with them last Sunday), and then there's the All is of God thing. But some of the stuff they write...

But the MOST IRONIC and SHOCKING part was when the lead singer was talking about his Dad who had recently passed away. He said that many told him that his dad was looking down on him from Heaven, but he [the singer] didn't believe them because he's never read a Scripture to support that [that's true...], but THEN he says that he believes his Dad has much better things to do like singing praises to his God [Wait, what? Where's the Scripture for that one? I thought he was 'dead'?].

That is so cool.

[NoviceBeliever]

This for me ties this topic together with the topic "The Shack"...I had a lovely birthday party last week with some friends.  One of my gifts was a book entitled "Life Together: The Classic Exploration of Christian Community". I have had conversations with the person that gave me this book about coming to this forum and how it has changed my beliefs and how I am growing in my understanding of what GOD is actually teaching us.  Her concern was that I needed a church to feel a sense of "Community" and hence the gift several months later.  What she doesn't realize is that I have all the community I need here and more importantly with my relationship with GOD. There is much information (if you can call it that) that is out there to deceive people.  This is not the first "gift" I have been given in this regard ("90 Minutes in Heaven") which has also given me that icky feeling.  But for me it is just a way to strengthen me in my belief that I am on the right track.  I can't tell you how many books I have on my shelves of self help, enlightment, blah, blah, blah...that I have yet to read and will probably just throw in the trash. All is of HIM! NB

[cjwood]

I'm still in Catholicism (Although in name only), and I'm still under the Confirmation.

in defense of astropho, she is only 15 yrs. old and is still under the authority of her earthly father, so it is apparent that when he says she must attend the catholic services that she is obligated to do so. she has told him in the past that she did not want to go to church with him but, it seems, to me at least, that she must go. i could be wrong on this astropho, and if i am i apologize.

love in Christ,
claudia

[arion]

Except for the grace of God goeth I!!

The pope just made a decision that all who partake of communion are now commanded to kneel to receive it and to have the host placed on the tongue.  Some devout Catholics on a forum I'm a part of have been wagging their tongues over Vatacan II and what they perceive to be apostacy.  One of these posters who is a priest made a comment and another poster followed up with this.

Originally Posted by rodeorector  View Post
It would be impossible to enforce this. Since the apostacy of Vatican II not only were beautiful sanctuaries decimated to the point that they are devoid of an Altar, Tabernacle, or Communion Rail, the number of vocations to the priesthood have plummeted to the point where S.L.A.P. (Sunday Liturgy in the Absence of a Priest) is the major Sunday service in many parishes.

A post in response to what the Priest just said

You're right rodeorector. I have seen some beautiful older churches destroyed to come into what they thought was compliance with Vatican II. Solid marble communion rails ripped out. Jesus being placed into a closet somewhere off to the side. Main alters being relegated to just holding an occasional floral bouquet at a wedding. Some of the more modernly designed churches would not even have a place to kneel at communion let alone a communion rail.

It takes a lot to impress me but this underlined portion did it.

And another poster said;

Here in Los Angeles, Mahoney continues to demand that we "stand in unity" for communion. I have gotten into tug-o-wars over the kneeler with folks when, after the "Agnus Dei", I go to kneel again and they, wishing to obey Mahoney, put their foot against the kneeler to prevent me from bringing it down again. (I now keep to the back of the place in order to get my own kneeler)

I am pleased to note tho' that at my main church, the will of the traditionals have carried through. Before, one had to try and guess which side would be the "priest side" for communion, (he never picked the same line twice), or try to jump to the priest line thus earning the hissed scorn of the female Eurcharistic ministers who would scold people who did that.

Now the priest stands center, flanked by the female Eurcharistic ministers and a lot of folks make a beeline for the priest line including me.

Call me old fashioned, I simply believe that the body of our Lord should be delivered via his priest and no one else.

Astounding, isn't it?  I know that I am no better than these people but when I read things like this it makes me appreciate even more what I've been given as I have read God's truth that we find on this particular website.

[daywalker]

Call me old fashioned, I simply believe that the body of our Lord should be delivered via his priest and no one else.

What? He seriously believes that the little wafer he eats IS the body of Christ? Yikes, even my old babylonian pastor taught us that it was a SYMBOL... He just never explained why we had to partake in the physical act if it just represented a SPIRITUAL act. 


Romans 12:5 thus we, who are many, are one body in Christ, yet individually members of one another."

I Corinthians 12:27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members of a part,


Interesting stuff, thanks Arion!

- Daywalker 

[aqrinc]

The God of this world sure has a mighty hold on most professing Christians; though they think they do what is right. Thank GOD THE FATHER And our Lord Jesus Christ for shining His Light, Grace And Mercy on whom he chooses right now.

My greatest Joy will be when everyone is released, from the dark, stinking, filthy prison they are currently held in. If nothing else, that is one reason for always Thanking our FATHER (ABBA).

Mar 14:36 (LITV)
And He said, Abba, Father, all things are possible to You; take this cup from Me. Yet not what I will, but what You will.

Rom 8:15 (LITV)
For you did not receive a spirit of slavery again to fear, but you received a Spirit of adoption by which we cry, Abba! Father!

Gal 4:6  (LITV)
And because you are sons, God sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying, Abba! Father!

george .

[arion]

Ray has a very succinct, short, direct and to the point saying about all such things that I picked up off of one of his audio tapes.  He calls it "Dirty Religion" and that it is.  To reduce the Son of the living God down to a wafer made by the hands of man and yet it makes perfect sense to them doesn't it?  Yet, at one time although I didn't believe that you had to speak in tongues to be a believer or to have 'prophetic utterances' during a service somehow I felt our church was spiritually superior to those who had not experienced such things.  Pot meet kettle time.   

[Astrapho]

she has told him in the past that she did not want to go to church with him but, it seems, to me at least, that she must go. i could be wrong on this astropho, and if i am i apologize.

Nope, you're not wrong. If I had free will, I would have left, lol.

What? He seriously believes that the little wafer he eats IS the body of Christ?

Yep they do. Why, I have no idea. I remember my mom told me not to chew it because "it's Jesus!". 

My cathecist once told me this horror story of this priest. During communion, when the priest blesses the bread and says "...May be turned into the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ",  and he didn't believe it was indeed Jesus's flesh and blood. So the wafer turned into a heart muscle (supposedly Jesus's) right in his hand!! I believed it because I was like, 8... But now I'm a skeptic. 

My greatest Joy will be when everyone is released, from the dark, stinking, filthy prison they are currently held in. If nothing else, that is one reason for always Thanking our FATHER (ABBA).

I so look forward to His coming. Like really! I'm gonna nuke Him with a thousand questions when I see Him!!

[aqrinc]

What we learn when humility really starts to take hold is; we are just like the worst of sinners anywhere. GOD; In HIS Grace And Faith, Has opened our eyes and ears of Spiritual understanding by HIS Choosing.

If we have anything to boast, it is that our FATHER (ABBA) Will do the same for all our kind (humankind), each in their own course.

1Pe 4: 1-19 (GNB)
1  Since Christ suffered physically, you too must strengthen yourselves with the same way of thinking that he had; because whoever suffers physically is no longer involved with sin.
2  From now on, then, you must live the rest of your earthly lives controlled by God's will and not by human desires.

3  You have spent enough time in the past doing what the heathen like to do. Your lives were spent in indecency, lust, drunkenness, orgies, drinking parties, and the disgusting worship of idols.

4  And now the heathen are surprised when you do not join them in the same wild and reckless living, and so they insult you.
5  But they will have to give an account of themselves to God, who is ready to judge the living and the dead.

6  That is why the Good News was preached also to the dead, to those who had been judged in their physical existence as everyone is judged; it was preached to them so that in their spiritual existence they may live as God lives.

1Pe 4:6 (GW)
After all, the Good News was told to people like that, although they are now dead. It was told to them so that they could be judged like humans in their earthly lives and live like God in their spiritual lives.

1Pe 4:6 (ESV)
For this is why the gospel was preached even to those who are dead, that though judged in the flesh the way people are, they might live in the spirit the way God does.

7  The end of all things is near. You must be self-controlled and alert, to be able to pray.
8  Above everything, love one another earnestly, because love covers over many sins.
9  Open your homes to each other without complaining.

10  Each one, as a good manager of God's different gifts, must use for the good of others the special gift he has received from God.
11  Those who preach must preach God's messages; those who serve must serve with the strength that God gives them, so that in all things praise may be given to God through Jesus Christ, to whom belong glory and power forever and ever(eons of the eons CLV). Amen.

12  My dear friends, do not be surprised at the painful test you are suffering, as though something unusual were happening to you.
13  Rather be glad that you are sharing Christ's sufferings, so that you may be full of joy when his glory is revealed.

14  Happy are you if you are insulted because you are Christ's followers; this means that the glorious Spirit, the Spirit of God, is resting on you.

15  If you suffer, it must not be because you are a murderer or a thief or a criminal or a meddler in other people's affairs.
16  However, if you suffer because you are a Christian, don't be ashamed of it, but thank God that you bear Christ's name.

17  The time has come for judgment to begin, and God's own people are the first to be judged. If it starts with us, how will it end with those who do not believe the Good News from God?

18  As the scripture says, "It is difficult for good people to be saved; what, then, will become of godless sinners?"

19  So then, those who suffer because it is God's will for them, should by their good actions trust themselves completely to their Creator, who always keeps his promise.

george.