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[jacobbsladdr]

What started as a simple conversation (my Mom was a JW) turned into a slightly heated argument the other day at my office.  Our IT guy is a JW and we were casually talking about my Mom and growing up and having to study w/JW's.  He finally got around to asking me what my doctrinal beleifs were.  I hesitated cause I knew where this was gonna go... but I bit.  I told him I was only answering him because he asked.

I explained in basic terms.  I explained that I follow the Scriptures, not Biblical interpretations, that were to study the Scriptures to show ourselves approved.  I explained about no free will.  That set him off.  He was like then explain why we have prisons if God creates people to be criminals.  I laughed and asked why he was trying to defend the Worlds institutions when were not suppose to be off the World.  He said well if we are not suppose to judge then how can people be put in prison.  Again I said why are you defending the worlds practices?  Since when has the world been a role model to follow?  I said either God is 110% sovereign or He isn't.  You don't have the power to go against what God has already declared.  I said God directs our steps.  He said Pharaoh hardened his own heart and God didn't have anything to do with it.  He kept asking for chapter and verse and said he had read the Bible over and over several times and didn't know those Scriptures.  I said well next time try pay attention to the words.  He said what Scriptures do I base my doctrines on?  I explained a bit about esword and all the different sources out there to use as study tools and his come back was, well how do you know their right or accurate.  What gives them the authority.  I said it's up to each of us to search the truth out.  I said why do you only use your new world translation, what gives the JW elders the authority?  If you spent more time reading the actual Scriptures instead of reading your pre-written Awake and Watchtower magazines you might actually learn something.  You don't even know what your Bible was translated from.

Needless to say, we got interrupted and he didn't want to talk anymore after that.  It wasn't actually heated, just aggressive once he understood that just because my Mom had been a JW didn't mean I thought they were correct in their doctrines.

-JL

[Marky Mark]

Hi JL. Nothing wrong with trying,but all to often the results are already ordained from the foundation. Scripture always reveals the Truth.

2John1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

1 Kings 13:16 He said, "I cannot return with you, nor go with you, nor will I eat bread or drink water with you in this place.

Romans 16:17 Now I urge you, brethren, keep your eye on those who cause dissensions and hindrances contrary to the teaching which you learned, and turn away from them.

2 Thessalonians 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from every brother who leads an unruly life and not according to the tradition which you received from us.
 
2 Thessalonians 3:14 If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of that person and do not associate with him, so that he will be put to shame.

Titus 3:10 Reject a factious man after a first and second warning





Peace...Mark
 
 

[aqrinc]

Hi JL,

Now maybe you can try with my Mom, she has been JW for 50+ yrs; unfortunately still blinded. Two of my brothers are also just about 40 yrs into their trek in the desert, however, the older brother had about a two hour conversation with me last week. At the end we were actually going over Scripture and he was admitting that he has a lot of questions but needed to study the Scripture Topics we discussed again.

I have to repeat; if GOD could get a donkey to talk, to and show a self righteous powerful preacher (Baalam) what he wanted done; who are we; to not just wait; even though we want to fix the little (errors) we think; God may have overlooked?.

Psa 27:10-14 (Rotherham)
10 When, my own father and mother, had forsaken me, Then, Yahweh, took me up!
11 Point out to me, O Yahweh, thy way,—And guide me in a level path, because of mine adversaries.

12 Do not give me up unto the desire of mine adversaries, for there have risen up against me witnesses that are false, and he that fanneth up violence.

13 I believe that I shall see—The goodness of Yahweh in the land of the living,
14 Wait thou for Yahweh,—Be strong, and let thy heart be bold, Wait, then, for Yahweh!

george.

[Ninny]

Hey Mike,
You know sometimes you just have to say what you said to that guy..it actually sounds like you sort of answered him with questions about his own way of learning scriptures..there is nothing wrong with giving an answer to those who ask..and you guys know that JW's are pretty hard nuts to crack just as are about every other church-going Christian out there..You know I was a Seventh Day Adventist for years and man don't even try to make them think that anyone else has truth! Even though I have heard from that pulpit many times "Well, we don't have a corner on the truth." ha! wanna bet me on that one? But, here's what we are told to do..give an answer for those who ask..so Mike that's just what you did..I have given up long ago trying to convince anyone of anything..I think the only convincing that we do is to convince anyone by our actions if we are what we claim to be...what is important is that where the rubber meets the road you are who you claim to be and that is reflected in your character..so even though many times I have fallen so short of the mark and so have we all..in the end we know that God is in control and when He says something is finished then..IT IS FINISHED and all we can do is to show people that we don't condemn them for anything they do.. if we are Christ's ambassadors then our job is to represent his Character which is formed in love and respect for those around us..do you think yes or no on this? If we have been given light and truth then we are bound to share it..and I hope it's beams would be reflected in this world! Mike, it was a good thing you did! George, you know that God is in control with your family! We are all in one way or another "A sermon in shoes"
Kathy

[aqrinc]

I think the only convincing that we do is to convince anyone by our actions if we are what we claim to be...what is important is that where the rubber meets the road you are who you claim to be and that is reflected in your character..so even though many times I have fallen so short of the mark and so have we all..in the end we know that God is in control and when He says something is finished then..IT IS FINISHED and all we can do is to show people that we don't condemn them for anything they do.. if we are Christ's ambassadors then our job is to represent his Character which is formed in love and respect for those around us..do you think yes or no on this? If we have been given light and truth then we are bound to share it..and I hope it's beams would be reflected in this world! Mike, it was a good thing you did! George, you know that God is in control with your family! We are all in one way or another "A sermon in shoes" 
Kathy

!!!!YEP!!!

george. 

[jacobbsladdr]

I didn't expect a conversion hahaha.  I just felt he got very hostile and was testing me to see what I knew so he could try to correct me.  when that didn't work he didn't want to continue but you could tell he was not satisfied.  I felt fine afterward.  He asked.  I told.  Done.  It's not up to me to give him ears and eyes.   But I thanked God for not making me look like a fool.

[Ninny]

You're a good egg, JL! You went down the right path with him..he asked, you answered. If you'd have looked like a fool, it would only have been to him..God takes care of everything..
Kathy

[lauriellen]

I ENJOYED THIS THREAD AND IT IS SOMETHING I HAVE HAD MY MIND ON LATELY....NOT THAT I WANT TO "PREACH" TO PEOPLE OR ANYTHING, BUT I JUST LOOK AROUND AND SEE SO MUCH HOPELESSNESS, I WANT TO SHARE
MY HOPE WITH THOSE AROUND ME AND LET THEM KNOW THE WONDERFUL THINGS THAT I HAVE LEARNED THAT HAVE GIVEN ME SO MUCH COMFORT
AND JOY EVEN IN MY SORROW....MY PROBLEM IS, UNLIKE JL, I AM NOT SMART
ENOUGH TO ANSWER BACK SO QUICKLY......GIVEN TIME TO THINK AND LOOK
UP SCRIPTURE, I COULD ANSWER SOME QUESTIONS, BUT IT WOULD JUST TAKE ME A WHILE....I WOULD GIVE ANYTHING IF I WAS A QUICK THINKER AND COULD CALL SCRIPTURES TO MIND WHEN I NEEDED THEM (I CAN QUOTE MANY, BUT I JUST CAN'T TELL YOU INSTANTLY WERE THEY ARE!)....I HAVE PRAYED AND ASK GOD TO HELP ME HAVE A BETTER MEMORY CONCERNING THIS, BUT IN THE MEAN TIME, I JUST TRY TO DIRECT PEOPLE TO THIS WEBSITE IF THEY ARE TRUELY INTERESTED IN LEARNING ANSWERS TO THEIR QUESTION....I FIGURE FOR ME, IT IS BETTER TO NOT SAY ANYTHING, THAN TO GIVE A FALSE ANSWER....
UNLIKE ANY OTHER TIME IN MY LIFE, I FEEL LIKE MY COMMUNITY HAS TAKEN IT UPON THEMSELVES TO "CONVERT" MY FAMILY AND I....I GUESS SINCE WE LOST OUR SON 8 MONTHS AGO, AND MOST PEOPLE AROUND ME KNOW I DO NOT ATTEND CHURCH, I GET WHAT I CALL "OFFICAL VISITS" FROM THE CHURCHIES AROUND ME ABOUT ONCE A WEEK.....THE SAY THEY ARE CONCERNED FOR OUR FAMILY AND THEIR CONVERSATION ALWAYS GETS AROUND TO "DO YOU KNOW THE LORD?"....AND HOW THOSE WHO DON'T KNOW
THE LORD WILL END UP IN HELL.....AFTER TRYING TO EXPLAIN TO ONE WOMAN MY BELIEFS, SHE EXCLAIMED IN SHOCKED DISBELIEF "WHAT KIND OF RELIGION TO YOU HAVE ANYWAY!"...SO I JUST DON'T GO THERE AT ALL UNLESS THERE IS NO ESCAPE...AND SOMETIMES IT IS HARD TO TO STAY SILENT....THEY USUALLY WANT TO LEAVE A BOOK OR SOMETHING FOR ME TO READ.....SO LATELY, I HAVE BEEN KEEPING SEVERAL BOOKS AROUND THAT
EXPOSE THE FALSE DOCTRINE OF HELL AND I JUST GIVE THEM ONE OF MY
BOOKS IN RETURN....=)  NEEDLESS TO SAY, THE ONES I HAVE GIVEN THE BOOKS TO HAVE NOT RETURNED.....I JUST LOOK AT IT AS PLANTING A SEED AND IT IS UP TO GOD (THE GREAT FARMER) WHAT THE OUTCOME WILL BE...
IT IS JUST HARD WHEN YOU KNOW THAT PEOPLE ARE SUFFERRING AND YOU OFFER THEM THE KEYS TO THEIR RELIEF, AND THEY REJECT IT FLATOUT....

[Ninny]

lauriellen,
It's not his smarts that helped JL answer so quickly..he has some experience recounting his beliefs and why he believes the way he does..don't compare yourselves to others..God gives to each what we need when we need it! When the time is right you'll be able to do it. I can speak from experience..I have been studying on Bible Truths since 2005, I've been on this forum for only a little over a year..I have told my family what I believe, some of them understand some don't and some don't really care! I have a lot of friends still in churches and they have no idea what I believe only one person who knows me from my former 'church life' knows, and he has visited Bible Truths a few times..other than that..no one knows..no one has asked me! I have things posted all over my facebook and no one notices..so if God sent someone across my path who asked I'd answer the best way I could!
You don't have to worry about it..
I know your situation is a little different, since your loss people think you have turned your back on God..I used to think "how can a person be a Christian and NOT go to church?!" That's ignorance talking right there!!

Just rest in the Lord Lauriellen...He'll give you words to say when the time is right..that's the best I can tell you...just rest, sweet lady! 
Kathy