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Author Topic: Mobile Conference 2009 - all audios  (Read 44714 times)

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Mobile Conference 2009 - all audios
« on: March 09, 2010, 03:01:23 PM »

Mobile Conference 2009                     Audio 1 - Worship!                   Audio 2 - Are You Yet Carnal?                Audio 3 - Are You Yet Carnal? continued            Audio 4 - Define The Day           Audio 5 - Is Jesus “God?”

audio 1

                                           HOW WE MUST WORSHIP GOD

I said in my announcement in the forum whether anybody would be surprised to know that my wife’s little Shih Tzu worshipped me this morning? You would say, ‘well how does a dog worship you?’

Strong’s; Greek: proskuneō  worship - from G4314 and probably a derivative of G2965 (meaning to kiss, like a dog licking his master’s hand); to fawn or crouch to, that is, (literally or figuratively) prostrate oneself in homage (do reverence to, adore): - worship.

So when you think about worship think about a dog licking his masters hand, showing affection and love and so on.

The churches across the country they all love to worship and your more earthy churches like the Pentecostals and the Church of God and all of those like to have a Wednesday night worship or Sunday evening. They call them ‘Worship Services’ and they do all kinds of things; they sing, they pray, they dance and fall over backwards. There’s no doubt about it, that is a form of worship. I don’t think it’s the kind of worship that God appreciates, but that is worship.

(Notes) Tis true, such carrying ons does constitute a form of worship, but is this what God wants us to do? In the Valley of Hinnom they sacrificed babies to worship their god Moloch.

When one bows down to a monarch, he is acknowledging that this royalty is his Lord and Master and is willing to obey in any and all things commanded of him.

When people bow down and kiss the Pope’s ring, that’s worship. That is almost right with the definition, like a dog licking his master’s hand, that is a form of worship. Any time you pay homage or bow in obedience or put yourself at someone else’s service that is a form of worship.

Hebrew: shâchâh  worship - A primitive root; to depress, that is, prostrate (especially reflexively in homage to royalty or God): - bow (self) down, crouch, fall down (flat), humbly beseech, do (make) obeisance, do reverence, make to stoop, worship.

The first time “worship” is used in Scripture is with Abraham and he is willing as part of that worship to sacrifice his own son!

Gen 22:2  And He said, Take now your son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou love, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell you of.

Gen 22:5  And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the a@@; and I and the lad will go yonder and WORSHIP, and come again to you.

Generally people worship in a way that makes THEM (not God) feel good. Worship service is a feel good service. This is one reason why some of the really big Mega churches now hold worship services which mimic rock concerts. They literally entertain themselves with their own worship.

Worship today consists of many centuries of church tradition:

The church today has accumulated a lot of things that have nothing to do with the Scriptures. Yet they are very fond of these things. I’ve put down here things that just aren’t true, but are part of their religiosity.

No they aren’t. They are not, but I get probably one or two emails a week about angels from Christians. These pictures of 15, 16 or 17 year old teenage girls with bleach blond hair that are sexually clad and they think that those are the furious and terrible cherubim of the Bible. No!

Where do they come up with this stuff? I don’t know, some of it comes out of paganism and different places. But if you check the Scriptures you will find this in Judges.

Judges 13:6  …A man of God came unto me, and his countenance was like the countenance of an angel of God, very terrible.

It was a man.

Genesis 16:7-8 “HE said unto her…” it was a man.

Genesis 31:11-12 “And HE said...”

Luke 1:19 it talks about Gabriel, which is a man’s name.

Angels are not women. But how would you tell the church that angels are not woman or that most angels have wings?

When people put together these scenes of what their religion means to them… like the Christmas season and they have the manger scene. That is totally unscriptural. They have ‘three wise men.’ How many have hear of the ‘three wise men’? How many know in the Scripture where it talks about the ‘three wise men’? No where does it talk about three wise men. It talks about “wise men,” but not three.

Matt 2:1  Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,

Matt 2:7  Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, inquired of them diligently what time the star appeared.

Matt 2:16  Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men
Tradition says that there were thirty. But they say there was three, there was not three.

I know my little Methodist church had a picture of Jesus… I really believe it was a picture of the Greek god Zeus, with long curly hair. That’s how they worship, they worship this image of Jesus with the long curly hair. He didn’t have long curly hair. You know what Paul said.

1Co 11:14  Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?

It isn’t just long hair it’s long curly hair, locks of hair. But will they get rid of that image of Jesus? No. They show Him as this beautiful man… remember in Nashville I went through Isaiah 53.

Isa 53:2  For He shall grow up before Him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: He hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see Him, there is no beauty that we should desire Him.

Yet the picture that supposedly represent Jesus, He’s like the most handsome dude that ever lived. It’s all false worship. There is nobody like that. And there weren’t three wise men, but that’s not a big deal, it’s just not Scriptural.

Mat 2:11  And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary His mother, and fell down, and worshiped him:

It said they (wise men) came into the “house” and saw the “young” boy. He wasn’t a baby in a manger, but a young boy. That’s why they killed all the boys two years and under, He was really close to two years old by the time the wise men got there.

We are taught the first recorded sin in the Bible is where Eve ate the forbidden apple or forbidden fruit. No it wasn’t. The first sin was when she looked at it to LUST after it.

1John 2:15  Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
v. 16  For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

She had already broken all of the commandments before she ever took the first bite. Why can’t people see that? Well I didn’t see it either until I started paying closer attention to all the words. I have never heard of anybody in my life, no one that seems to understand that Eve sinned before she ever ate the fruit. They think eating the fruit is what caused them to be sinners, because now they had a knowledge of good and evil or whatever. They had knowledge before that, they weren’t robots, they weren’t stupid.

Gen 3:1  Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
v. 2  And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
v. 3  But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

The serpent said aren’t you allowed to eat whatever you want? She said yes, we are allowed to eat everything we want, except of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. So she knew that, she had knowledge she knew that was wrong. Right?

One of the biggest stumbling blocks to worshipping God is the belief that man had a free will. I mean that will really screw you up, because then you will take credit for anything that you do that’s good. You will take credit for your own salvation quite frankly. There’s not a Christian alive that would not acknowledge that he save himself or that he‘s responsible. No. It’s all of God, ALL OF GOD.

But they say, ‘you had to do something or you wouldn’t be saved. Am I right?’ Oh yes of course. ‘Well how do you say it’s all of God?’ Well I mean you have to accept it, you have to accept Jesus and you have to repent of your sins and you have to, etc.  But God doesn’t make you do that, oh no. ‘No you just do that on your own.’ You just decide to do that? ‘Yea.’ So you’re a sinner and one day for whatever reason you decide, I am going to stop sinning. Right? ‘Yea.’ You repent and you accept Jesus? ‘Yea.’ Well how come the Bible says in Jeremiah if a leopard can change it’s spots, then you can choose to do good when you have been practicing evil all of your life?

Jer 13:23  Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.

Do you know any Christians that can change the spots of a leopard or the skin of an Ethiopian? ‘No.’ Well then they can’t choose to go right or come to Christ.

Jesus said, “No man can come to Me,” (John 6:44).  Well sure you can, ask any Christian. It’s all up to you. Billy Graham said when he gives an alter call, ‘don’t you be praying for these people now. It’s fine it you prayed for them before, fine it you pray for them after, but don’t pray now. This must be their decision.’ WHAT? The most important decision that anybody will ever make in their life, boy that’s the time for sure you don’t want God’s help? Idiotic nonsense.

Jer 10:23  O LORD, I know (Too bad that the church doesn’t know.) that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walks to direct his steps.

They say, ‘yea but it seems like we direct our own steps.’ Well just more of the deception. Can an Ethiopian change his skin? Can a leopard change his spots?

Php 2:13  For it is God which works in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure.

I was telling somebody last night at a little gathering here that I had a couple of Jehovah Witnesses ladies come to the door about a year ago. I didn’t let them in, but I did accosted at the door for a little while. They were telling me how corrupt the world was and how man chooses to do evil and he needs to choose to do right and follow Jehovah and all that. She was talking about your free will to do this and they just don’t do it. Well I said a man doesn’t have a ‘free will.’ They said, ‘oh yea, God gave man a free will. Oh yes, absolutely we have a free will.’ So I said no, the Bible says, it is God that wills and does whatever is His good pleasure. Then one lady said, ‘that’s not in the Bible.’ I said not only is it in the Bible it’s in your New World Translation Bible, check out Philippians 2:13.

They literally dusted their feet off and went on their way. They were offended at the word of God. Why? Because they despise the word of God. You can open up your Bible and read them a verse and they despise it.

I’ve told ya’ll how I once I had this girlfriend, one day she said something really stupid. All I did was I quoted a verse, I didn’t set it up, I didn’t comment on it, I just quoted a simple verse. Her response was, ‘yea well that is your interpretation.’ Boy where does this stuff come from?

I’m giving just one more, because there is just no end… I said many years ago that there is not one doctrine in the Christian church that is Scriptural. Not one, not completely, no.

So a year or two ago I was thinking about this ‘saying grace.’ I had a friend and we went to a restaurant and everybody would bow their heads, people would be getting their food and we would be praying and I thought that was a little awkward. I’m not embarrassed to pray or to talk about God, but I just thought that was a little awkward, you know. So I got to thinking about where did that come from? Does anybody have any ideas why we say ‘grace’? When I say ‘grace’ I don’t mean say the word grace. Grace means gratuitous or gift.

[Comment from attendee: Was it because Christ was blessing the bread?] Okay, that sounds logical. Anyone else?

[Comment from attendee: Was it when He feed the multitude?] Alright. Anyone else?

[Comment: Paul gave grace before he broke bread, in Acts, on his last trip.] Okay, can anybody find that? I want to know where they sat down for a meal and before they ate the meal they ask God’s blessing and thanks on the meal. This is not a big deal, in fact I do it, it’s a custom and there is really nothing wrong with it. I just don’t believe it’s Scriptural. Some say I Timothy 4.

1TiM 4:3  Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

That has nothing to do with saying grace. Some authorities say it came from Deuteronomy 12.

Deu 12:7  And there ye shall eat before the LORD your God, and ye shall rejoice in all that you put your hand unto, you and your households, wherein the LORD your God hath blessed you.

I don’t see anybody saying grace over a meal there. Do you?

Well what about the first Biblical dinner? That’s found in Genesis 18:1-8, that’s the first real dinner mentioned in the Bible.

Gen 18:1-8  And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;  And he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground, And said, My Lord, if now I have found favor in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant: Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree: And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said. And Abraham hastened into the tent unto Sarah, and said, Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes upon the hearth. And Abraham ran unto the herd, and fetched a calf tender and good, and gave it unto a young man; and he hasted to dress it. And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.

There’s nothing about saying grace or a blessing.

What about when they were entertaining angels with a meal in Genesis 19:1-3?

Gen 19:1-3  And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground; And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night. And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat.

There is no thanks given.

What about the first Passove? There is no thanks given, no blessing said, not that I see in the Scriptures.

What about when they went through the field and the disciples were eating grain?

Mat 12:1  At that time on the sabbath, Jesus went through the grain fields. And His disciples were hungry, and began to pluck heads of grain and to eat.

Did they say a blessing over the grain/food first? It doesn’t say so.

« Last Edit: August 28, 2011, 05:42:48 PM by Kat »


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Re: Mobile Conference 2009
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2010, 03:02:52 PM »

Someone had said feeding the multitudes. Now that is a little different. That is not like sitting down for a meal here, because they haven’t even got enough food for a meal. Now He ask God’s blessing because He’s got a couple loaves of bread and two fishes and He needed God to multiply them.

Mat 14:16  But Jesus said unto them, They need not depart; give ye them to eat.
v. 17  And they say unto Him, We have here but five loaves, and two fishes.
v. 18  He said, Bring them hither to Me.
v. 19  And He commanded the multitude to sit down on the grass, and took the five loaves, and the two fishes, and looking up to heaven, He blessed, and broke, and gave the loaves to His disciples, and the disciples to the multitude.
v. 20  And they did all eat, and were filled: and they took up of the fragments that remained twelve baskets full.

That’s a special pray. God, take these little morsels of food and make a whole lot out of it. But that’s not the traditional blessing of a meal. It’s a miracle of turning a little food into a lot of food.

It says “looking up to heaven, He blessed and broke it” that’s true. But this was in the context of multiplying the fish and so on and of course they took up twelve baskets that were left over when they were done eating.

The Pharisees had a major problem with the disciples of Jesus not washing their hands before they ate. But they didn’t have a problem about them not saying a blessing or a pray.

Mat 15:2  Why do Your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.

Well what about the last supper? There for sure, right? For sure there we have an example of blessing the food and everything before they partake of the dinner. Right? No pale face.

Mat 26:26  And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and broke it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is My body.

Did you catch that? “As they were eating,” they already started dinner, they didn’t ask a blessing on it.

When did He bless the wine? It was blessed “after supper,” after the meal.

Luke 22:20  Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in My blood, which is shed for you.

Even after the resurrection did Jesus bless the food?

Luke 24:40  And when He had thus spoken, He showed them His hands and His feet.
v. 41  And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, He said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
v. 42  And they gave Him a piece of a broiled fish, and of a honeycomb.
v. 43  And He took it, and did eat before them.

He said have you got anything to eat and they said yea we’ve got some boiled fish and they gave it to Him and He ate it. It doesn’t say He blessed it or ask God‘s grace on it or anything.

So it’s not a big deal, all I’m saying is we have these traditions that you just know in your mind, ‘well that’s Scriptural.’ The church has been doing that for two thousand years, but I don’t find it in the Bible. Sorry, but I don’t find it there.

It’s fine though, you can start traditions that are not used in the Bible as examples. But the point is people do think it is in the Bible. It’s like the saying, ‘cleanliness is next to godliness.’ People think that’s a proverb from the Bible, it’s not in the Bible, okay.

So then we read in Paul’s writings.

2Tim 4:3  For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
v. 4  And they shall turn away their ears from the truth…

Well any of you that have tried to tell your friends about Bible Truths or just tell them anything about the Bible, they won’t hear it. They will not want to hear it, they will turn their ears from it.

None of us are worthy to approach God’s throne.

Luke 17:10  So likewise you, when you have done all those things which are commanded you, say, we are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

Here is what we must by all means avoid.

Mark 7:7  Howbeit in vain do they worship Me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

John 17:17  Sanctify them by Your truth: Your word is truth.

Exo 20:4  Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
v. 5  Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord your God am a jealous God

1John 5:21  My little children, guard yourselves from idols.

They literally worshipped idols in ‘those’ days.

Acts 7:41  And they made a calf in those days, and brought a sacrifice unto the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their hands.

But in ‘these’ days we are a little more clever and sophisticated.

Col 2:8  Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.

“cheat you”
“philosophy & empty deceit”
“tradition of men”
“principles of the world”

2Tim 4:2  Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching.
v. 3  For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;
v. 4  and they will turn their ears away from the truth,


So if we are going to worship God properly we have got to have true knowledge and we have got to have the right attitude.

Hosea 4:6  My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge:

Mat 15:8  This people draws nigh unto me with their mouth, and honor Me with their lips; but their heart is far from Me.
V. 9  But in vain they do worship Me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

There is a form of worship going on out there, but I don’t think it is necessarily what God wants.


What attitude must we have to make our worship meaningful?

James 4:6  …God resists the proud, but gives grace unto the humble.

James 4:10  Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He shall lift you up.

That is one simple all encompassing statement. I mean there are hundreds of commands in the Bible, but here is a simple one, “humble yourself.” Now we could talk a couple of hours on that; Debase yourself - lower yourself - get down on your knees - get rid of your haughty looks - stop thinking your better than other people, and on and on and on. “Humble yourself” and God will “lift you up!” That’s a promise He said so, you’re humble, then God will lift you up. How simple is that?

Luke 18:9-14  Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: "Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, "God, I thank You that I am not like other men--extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector.  I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.'
And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, "God, be merciful to me a sinner!'
I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."

So when you worship God humble yourself, don’t be like the Pharisees, ‘glad I’m not this Publican here. I mean I fast twice in the week and I do this and I do that.’ Jesus said that man did not go down to his house justified, he might as well not prayed at all.


Now we are admonished to assemble ourselves together and it is a difficult thing when you live in Great Britain and central Mexico and northern Canada and all of that. But we are here today and you know we are making a jolly good effort. As Jesus say;

Matt 18:20  For where two or three are gathered together in My name, there am I in the midst of them.

Heb 10:25  Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another…

1John 1:7  But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

So hopefully that is what we are doing here. We are assembling… trying to get the true knowledge of God… we are hopefully humbling ourselves… we are determined to walk in the lightlearn God’s Truth… we are having fellowship one with another… the end result is we will be cleansed from all our sin! How good is that! That’s a good thing. Right? That’s worship.

We are worshipping here. We are not singing, we are not dancing, we are not falling over backwards and foaming at the mouth or speaking in mumbo jumbo. But we are here, we are assembling, we are fellowshipping, we will hopefully have a humble attitude, we are hungry and thirsty for God’s Truth. That’s WORSHIP! We are worshipping. Do you follow?

Well what about all the days we don’t assemble? Well you don’t have to be in a physical assembly to worship. Just follow instruction.

John 4:21  Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe Me, the hour cometh, when you shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
v. 22  You worship you know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
v. 23  But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeks such to worship Him.
v. 24  God is a (‘a’ is not in the Greek) Spirit: and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.

Not that you can, but you “MUST worship Him in spirit and in truth.” Not that you can or can’t, you “must.” We must worship “in spirit and in truth.”  There’s the answer as to how, when and where we are to WORSHIP God.

When Israel was condemned for idolatry, they didn’t worship “in truth.” Those statures and stuff that they bow down to, that’s not truth and it’s not spiritual, but very physical. You can bust the nose off of those gods.


So ‘true’ worship is obedience to the truth! All of the truth, all of God’s word. To know what that is you have got to pay attention to all the words. I’m going to show you a couple of examples of how I do that and why I can take any truth of God and just keep going with it, there is no end.

Matt 4:10  Then said Jesus unto him, Get you hence, Satan: for it is written, You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only shall you serve.

Luke 6:46  And why call ye Me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Rom 12:1  I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

That’s worship!

Mat 22:37  Jesus said unto him, you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.

That’s worship!

John 14:21  He that hath My commandments, and keeps them, he it is that loves Me:

That’s worship!

« Last Edit: March 10, 2010, 11:00:15 AM by Kat »


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Re: Mobile Conference 2009
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2010, 03:03:10 PM »

Later I’m going to talk about does Jesus deserve the title God. Not that He is God the Father, of course not. But God is a title, does He deserve that title? Because that’s a big deal from the perspective of, is Jesus just a brother or is He in effect a God to us?

There is only one Father, but you don’t go to the Father accept through the Son and you don’t get to the Son accept through the Father. It works both ways.

I find it hard to believe that if Jesus was just a man, that we would pray to Him and worship Him and all of that, for just a man. Oh He’s a good man, don’t get me wrong, but if He is just a man?  Then the question comes up, why is one man’s life worth all the billions of people that ever lived? Why would the death of one man justify the forgiveness of all other men, why?

You would say, ‘well because He didn’t sin.’ Why didn’t He sin? Did God the Father have anything to do with the fact that Jesus didn’t sin? He had a lot to do with it didn’t He. So from that perspective Jesus can’t take credit for being the perfect sacrifice. If He can’t take credit for it, why do we give Him credit? We will talk about that later.

When Jesus was ascending into heaven He gave some final instructions to His disciples.

Matt 28:20  Teaching them (the nations) to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:

That’s worship, to do everything that Christ commanded. One of the main things we have to do is to forgive other of their sins. That is a difficult thing to do. You can not worship God if you have got a grudge against somebody.


Mark 11:25  And when you stand praying, forgive, if you have aught against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
v. 26  But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

In other words, you might as well not be worshipping at all. That’s dead in the water, if you’ve got a grudge or hold bad feelings towards people.

Now when I say hold bad feelings, that’s where you wish bad on people or you hope they get theirs or something like that. It doesn’t mean you can’t think about what they are. I call a spade a spade and people hate me for doing that. I’ve had more than five or ten, twenty or thirty or forty Christians and ministers say, ‘Ray what are you doing, you name names.’ I said, duh. Jesus Christ named names, Paul named names. Paul said the copper smith really did me dirty. What about the loving John?  Third John, it’s less than a half a page in the Bible, less than half a page and do you know what it centers around? The pride of Diotrephes.

3John 1:9  I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes (that carnal minded jerk), who loves to have the preeminence among them, received us not.

John named names didn’t he. But if I do it… I don’t condemn these people, I just tell what they are.

Wait until you see my article on ‘23 Minutes in Hell.’ I mean I have to constrain myself, because I tell you I am going to blow that thing out of the sky. I would love for that to get on U-Tube. But I have no ill feelings towards Bill Wiese, that something horrible happens in his life or I hope he gets to really go to hell that he says everybody else is going to, no I don’t wish that on him. But I am going to expose him and I am going to name names, you bet I am.

Mat 6:12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
v. 13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: [Note this colon [:] - the rest of this verse “For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, forever. Amen.” is not in the original Greek].
v. 14  For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
v. 15  But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

James tells us to, “Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you.” (James 4:08 )

Colossians 3:2  Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

1Cor 6:20  For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

1Peter 1:15-16  But as He which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

So I said true worship is obedience, I mean it’s just like one and the same thing.

1Sam 15:22  And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

Obedience is better than sacrificing or delicious food or anything. Obedience!

Exo 19:5  Now therefore, if you will obey My voice indeed, and keep My covenant, then you shall be a peculiar treasure unto Me above all people: for all the earth is Mine:

The whole earth is God’s, but what is His “peculiar treasure”? The gold or diamonds in south Africa? No, His people are His peculiar treasure. I was telling someone, His chosen are His favorites, so it’s the ones He favors.

Jer 7:23  But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey My voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be My people: and walk you in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.

Jer 12:17  But if they will not obey, I will utterly pluck up and destroy that nation, saith the LORD.

Dan 7:27  And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints (that’s us) of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey Him.  

But that’s not going to happen until we learn to do the obeying first.

Act 5:29  Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

Act 5:32  And we are His witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Spirit, whom God hath given to them that obey Him.

Do you want His Holy Spirit? What have you got to do? OBEY! That’s worship.

Rom 6:16  Know you not, that to whom you yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants you are to whom you obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

It’s all about obedience.

Mat 6:24  No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.

You can’t serve God and mammon, that’s why it says in 1 John.

1John 2:15  Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

You can’t serve God and materialism.

Col 3:22  Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eye service, as men pleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God:

Col 3:20  Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing unto the Lord.

Heb 5:9  And being made perfect, He became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey Him;

1Peter 4:17  For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?


What is the conclusion of all this?

Deu 10:12  …what doth the LORD thy God require of you , but to fear the LORD your God, to walk in all His ways, and to love Him, and to serve the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul,
v. 13  To keep the commandments of the LORD, and His statutes, which I command you this day for your good?

This is a really good verse. That’s a lot of doing, that’s a lot of obedience. That’s a lot of WORSHIP!
“Walk in all His ways…”
“To love Him…”
“serve the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.”
“To keep the commandments of the LORD, and His statutes…”

(KJV)  Ecc 12:13  Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.  

(CLV)  Ecc 12:13 The terminus of the whole matter has been heard: Fear the One, Elohim, and keep His instructions, For this is the whole duty of humanity."

“Fear God, and keep His commandments and instructions; for this is the whole duty of humanity.”  That’s about as simple as I can make it. I could talk for hours and we could have more Scripture, we could do a lot of things. But I just want you to learn some basic things.

If we are to do these things, the obedience and so on, we need to read the Scriptures to see what it is we need to be obedient to. But the main thing that I want you to get out of this lesson this morning, if you only remember one phrase, WORSHIP IS OBEDIENCE! Just remember that. What is true worship, obeying God, everything He says.

Luke 4:4  And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

But don’t be so stupid as that little group that left our fellowship… talk about not getting the spiritual lesson and taking everything literal. They say, ‘you have to obey everything that Jesus Christ said even if He says, don’t do it.’ I mean wow, it’s just hard to believe that your mind could be that perverted. If Jesus says don’t lust after a woman in your heart, then you’ve got to lust after a woman in your heart? Because it came out of His mouth and you have to live by every word?  When you figure that one out you let me know or don’t let me know, I don’t want to know.

So pay attention to all the words and I’m going to show you how to pay attention to all the words. I thought at the Nashville conference I covered pretty well the proofs of how long the creation days were. That there was no global flood. I had at least a hundred different proofs. But I’m still getting emails, ‘no Ray.’

Well I’m going to show you how to pay attention to the words. Because I’m not afraid to go back and take up these challenges, because I learned a principle and I told it to you. I’ll tell it to you again.

If something is really true, now it doesn’t matter if you know it’s true or not. If it is really is true, then the more you study, the more you look, the more you examine, the deeper you go, if that subject really is true, what you discover will add credence to the fact that it is truth. If it is not true, if it’s false, then the more you study the more you look, the more detailed you go, the deeper you go, the more evidence you have that it’s not true. That’s just the way it works.

So I thought what does it take to persuade these people, of course it takes a miracle. But I’m going to shut their mouths anyway, so that they can’t answer back. So it’s going to be an exercise in paying attention to the words. I am going to show you how I do this. It’s just something that God put in my head and I know how to do it. I know how to zero in and keep going and going and going. I’m just amazed at what you find or what God reveals if you humble yourself. I just say, God show me… show me, because I don’t understand this verse… I don’t understand it, so show me. He hasn’t shown me everything yet.


Somebody ask me about woman preachers, what do I think about women preachers? I said I don’t know. He said, ‘what do you mean, “you don’t know,” Ray you know everything.’ When people ask I say, well Paul said that women should keep silent in the church. He said, ‘well do you believe that?’ I said I don’t know. He said, ‘but what do you think.’ I said, I don’t know! I said about a year or two ago I studied it for a whole week, like ten hours a day I studied that and I don’t know the answer to it.

I mean there seems to be somewhat of a contradiction between, “Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak,” (1Cor 14:34). Then the fact that even the woman at the well. When Christ was talking to her about you have to worship God in spirit and truth… she ran back to town and told the whole city that she had just met the Lord and she started spreading the gospel.

Paul had different woman help him out. Who supported Christ’s ministry? Women. It names Joanna and Susanna (Luke 08) and Mary Magdalene and there isn’t a man among them. Women supported the ministry of Jesus Christ.

But you’ve got to pay attention to the words and we are going to do that. As you leave this conference and you want to worship God, you will have to read this Bible very carefully, look at all the words. Don’t be guilty of ‘reading without heading.’ If it says to do or to think, or not to do or not to think, that’s what you do. That’s worship. When you can accept that God says it and I’ll do it, that’s worship.

« Last Edit: March 09, 2010, 03:12:51 PM by Kat »


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Re: Mobile Conference 2009
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2010, 03:04:49 PM »
Audio 2

                                                    ARE YOU YET CARNAL?

This second lecture I have is entitled 'Are You Yet Carnal’ it’s taken from 1 Corinthians 3.

Carnal: Probably from the base of G4563; flesh as stripped of the skin), that is, (strictly) the meat of an animal (as food), or (by extension) the body (as opposed to the soul (or spirit), or as the symbol of what is external, or (by implication) human nature (with its frailties (physically or morally) and passions), or (specifically) a human being (as such): carnal, carnally; flesh, fleshly.

But then it means by implication human nature, physical and morally, the one with human passions and so on.  Carnal is like the word con carne in Spanish, Chili Con Carne is chili with ‘meat.’

Is it bad to be “carnally minded?” YES it is, it's very bad.

Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is DEATH; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Being carnally minded is the complete opposite to being spiritually minded. Carnal minded and spirit minded are at diametric opposite poles, and one is life and the other is death.

So ask yourself are YOU “carnally minded?” Well, I would suspect that a lot of you would say, 'well yeah, I guess somewhat. I guess I’m still somewhat carnally minded at least.' In Revelation the third chapter Christ is talking about the church of Laodicea.

Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write;
v. 15 I know your works, that you art neither cold nor hot: I would you wert cold or hot.

You’re not real spiritual and you’re not totally carnal, “you’re lukewarm.”

v. 16 So then because you art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue (or vomit) you out of My mouth.
v. 17 Because you say, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and know not that you are wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

Now then, that’s pretty many negative things, isn’t it?

v. 18 I counsel you to buy of Me gold tried in the fire, that you may be rich; and white raiment...

"White raiment" stands for the righteousness of the saints.

v. 18 ...that you may be clothed, and that the shame of your nakedness does not appear...
v. 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
So the sin here of these lukewarm Laodiceans was that they thought they were rich and “increased with goods.”  But He said, no you’re not, you’re poor, you’re naked, you’re wretched, you’re miserable, you’re blind.

                                            ARE YOU RICH AND INCREASED WITH GOODS?
A danger when we come to and you start learning these things is that you start elevating yourself above your brothers and sisters. You think you have esoteric knowledge that they don’t have and that they’re just a little down here at this spiritual level and you’re up here, because we know the truth of these things.

We know the truth about:
Eternal torture...
The idea that man has an immortal soul...
That when you die do you go to heaven...
Should you tithe money...
Is there a secret rapture...
We know what the fire and the brimstone stands for...
We know the difference between Gehenna fire and the Lake of Fire...
We know that death is not life...
We know the importance of the resurrection...
We know that we are saved by grace through faith...
We know about the spiritual aspects of the law...
How you keeping the Sabbath day is a spiritual thing, where you no longer do your work according to Hebrews 4...
That the commandments are spiritual...
We understand that man doesn’t have a free will or immortal souls…
That the Bible is not to be taken as totally literal at most places…
Sovereignty of God…
The god of context…

So you see you feel like you are pretty "INCREASED with goods.” You know a lot about God and the Bible and you’re pretty rich and increased with goods. You’re increased in many spiritual gifts of understanding and you could begin to feel that way.

BUT ARE YOU YET CARNAL? Because you can have all that and still be carnal. Are you guilty of despising portions of God’s Word? What is it to be carnally minded? "DEATH"... it’s not good. Are you more interested in the physical and the material things of this world than the things of the Spirit? Well, if you are, then you’re carnal. Let’s notice in Corinthians the first chapter.

1 Corinthians 1:4 I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;
v. 5 That in everything you are enriched by Him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;
v. 6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:
v. 7 So that you come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:
That sounds pretty good, doesn’t it? You don’t come behind in anything, "in everything you are enriched, in all utterances, in all knowledge," right? Then you go across the page to chapter 3.

1 Corinthians 3:3 For ye are YET CARNAL…

See that? So you can have a lot of knowledge and a lot of gifts and a lot of stuff and you're still carnal. Which is?  [Attendee: Death]. What are you going to do with all this?

So this is what I try to tell people, when you learn all these truths, don’t try to jam it down peoples’ throats, they don’t want to hear it anyway. People will not judge you by how clever your arguments are, they will judge you by how you live. It’s the old story of; I’d sooner see a sermon any day than hear one. So you need to be a walking, talking sermon, not a clever arguer. Not that you shouldn’t know how to argue, you should. Peter says you should “be ready always to give an answer to every man that asks you a reason of the hope that is in you” (1 Peter 3:15).

People say, 'well Ray you don’t believe all that stuff in the Bible, do you?' I say yeah, yeah I do, not all translations, but even in all translations God’s truth is there. Yeah I believe it and I can tell them why.

There are dozens (hundreds) of ways in which you can be “yet carnal” and I could give you a whole list of them. You would probably agree and I don’t know how beneficial that would be. You would say, 'okay Ray told us 127 different ways that we are carnal and I’ve got them all down.' I’d sooner teach you principles, because you can apply a principle to different things. 

One specific piece of information, sometimes you can’t really apply it all over, it’s too isolated. But a ‘principle.’  See it’s kind of like that saying about; rather than give a beggar a fish, you would do better to teach him how to fish. Because if you give him a fish that’s very limited, he’ll make one meal out of it and he’s hungry again. But you teach him to be a good fisherman, he can catch fish all week.

So, I’m not going to try and cover all the different ways that we are still carnal, but I want to touch upon a principle and I want you to know right up front that I’m not doing this because I expect something out of you. I’m here to teach and then the chips fall wherever they may and what you do with it, is between you and God.

I thought if I say, well you know if you’re nasty to your wife or if you're a nagging wife to your husband and that this is just a carnal attitude and you shouldn’t do this and on and on. I mean you might get something out of it, but I don’t know how many of you are naggers or how many of you are men who are mean-spirited toward your wife or whatever. So I wanted to pick something that I can know whether you’re carnal or not and I got the proof. I know I open myself up for criticism…

I got an email from one of our detractors, a little group that left our communion a couple of years ago, who accuses me now of begging for money. I don’t beg for money, but he accuses me of begging for money. So I was a little wary about this because I don’t want anybody to think that I’m asking you to send money to, because I’m not.
But I want to show you an area where most of you are carnal. I know it for a fact. That is I know it for a fact if you tell me you think bible-truths is a place where God’s word is being taught and people have benefited by it and lives are being changed and that you agree with it and think it is a good ministry. If you tell me that’s what you believe, then I can tell you that most of everyone sitting in this room is yet carnal.

I certainly do not have the time to cover many way that you are “yet carnal.” But my hope is that covering a few in more detail, that it will prepare your minds to obey all such commandments and admonitions from God’s Word. 

Mat 6:21  For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

Alright let’s go through it. Luke 18, you know the story but we’re going to take a quick look at it.

Luke 18:18 And a certain ruler asked Him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
v. 19 And Jesus said unto him, Why do you call Me good? There is none good, but one, that is God.

Some people would use that to prove that Christ cannot be referred to as God, because He said “only God (speaking of His Father here) is good.” But when He said this, He had divested Himself of all His power and glory, so He was in human form in the weakened state of flesh.

v. 20 You know the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honor thy father and thy mother.
v. 21 And he said, All these have I done from my youth.
v. 22 Now when Jesus heard these things, He said unto him, You lack one thing, sell all that you have, and distribute it unto the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven: and come, follow Me.

He was offering him apostleship, not discipleship, apostleship. He turned it down!
It’s like:
Christ - How would you like to be My apostle?
Certain ruler - Yeah okay, what will it cost me?
Christ - Everything you’ve got.
Certain ruler - Nope, too high a price.

v. 23 And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.
v. 24 And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, how hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God.

Now, if you think this is a small subject, a physical small subject, you know this filthy lucre - money and this is not important in God’s realm of things.
Chapter 18 -- the whole chapter deals with money.
Chapter 19 -- the whole chapter is centered around money and riches and what you do with them.
Chapter 20 -- centers around money and riches and wealth.
Chapter 21 -- same thing.

You think that it isn’t important? I mean, when God mentions something two or three times in the Bible, it’s pretty important… four whole chapters! Okay? Alright.

He KNEW the commandments of God and he obeyed them from his youth! So, he went away sorrowful. Was that being spiritually minded or carnally minded? [Attendees: Carnally minded.] He wanted to know what he needed to do to inherit eternal life... he went away sorrowful. He was carnally minded, which ends in? [Death.] That wasn’t what he wanted, was it? If he had said, what should I do if I want to inherit death? Jesus could have said, keep doing what you’ve always been doing… enjoy your money.

But they say, ‘yeah, Jesus asked A LOT of the rich man to give up all his money.’ Guess what? Jesus asks A LOT of us, a lot. He didn’t say you couldn’t get in the kingdom of God, but he said it is nigh onto, almost impossible.

What if anything then can a rich man do to enter the Kingdom? In the next chapter (Luke 19) we have the story of Zacchaeus, he was rich. He was a short guy who couldn’t see Him, so he climbed a tree or whatever. They criticized him… he said, 'Lord I know I’m not a perfect man, but half of everything I have, HALF, I give to the poor.'  Now He didn’t ask him to give all. I think Zacchaeus was probably old and Jesus probably didn’t want him as an apostle or maybe he didn’t have those talents or whatever. He didn’t offer him apostleship, but he volunteered that he gave half of his riches to the poor and with Jesus that was fine. He said, “salvation come to this house…” (Luke 19:9). He said you’ve got the right attitude.

Now, there are a lot of things in the Bible that says “God HATES.”

Proverbs 6:16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto Him.
v. 17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
v. 18 An heart that devises wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
v. 19 A false witness that speaks lies, and he that sows discord among brethren.

Amos 5:21 I hate, I despise your feast days, and I will not smell (scent no fragrance, Rotherham) in your solemn assemblies.

Now there are a few things that it says, "but God LOVES," not that many where He just comes out and says that, but there are a few. Where is the first place in the New Testament where you read where it says God "loves"?

I like to do these things. Where’s the first place it says in the Bible about this or that or whatever. Maybe it’s important when it’s the first time something happens? The first place we find where God loves something?

John 16:27 For the Father (Jesus’ God and Father) Himself loves you…

There is one thing that God loves, He loves you and me. Now it says,

v. 27 …because ye have loved Me,

In other words if you love Me (Jesus), He will love you.

v. 27 …and have believed that I came out from God."

Well now here’s where we have one of these Scriptures again... who is Jesus? “He came out from God.” How did He come out from God? We’ll talk about that in another lecture, maybe tomorrow. So what do you need to do to get God’s love? Well, you need to love Jesus and you need to believe that He came out from God.

What else do we find in the New Testament that “God LOVES?”

                                                        GOD LOVES A CHEERFUL GIVER

2 Corinthians 9:7 Every man according as he purposes in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loves a cheerful giver.

He “LOVES a cheerful giver.” So if God says, you know how I would really love you… be a cheerful giver. (Notes) Do you pretend that this verse is not in the Bible? Does not apply to you? I said we are going to get up close and personal on this Bible conference. I want to help you to grow spiritually and get rewarded for your journey. What’s the difference between being “cheerful” or being “sorrowful”? The sorrowful man who came to Jesus won’t be in the Kingdom of God. Some of you are saying, ‘Ray I would much prefer that you talk to us about how “God loves us.”

The “cheerful giver” is loved of God and will be in God’s Kingdom and He will also receive a reward.

Mat 16:25  For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for My sake shall find it.

Gal 6:7  Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man sows, that shall he also reap.
v. 8  For he that sows to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that sows to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
v. 9  And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

Luke 6:38  Give, and it shall be given unto you, good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again. 

Now we have some wonderful cheerful givers in this room, yes we do, not that many I’m sad to say. We have now reached probably (based on the last three or four years), by now we have reached maybe six million people. Most of those people don’t give a penny.

Then we have thousands of people who really get something out of this site and most of those don’t give a penny. Then we have probably hundreds who actually have their lives changed and hardly any of those give a penny to this work. Then we have the members of our forum who are more of an inner circle and most of those never give a penny to this work.

So out of six million, we have about thirty people who give regularly to this ministry. About thirty, about two and a half dozen and you know who you are in this room. They are some very generous, very loving cheerful givers. You will be rewarded, believe me you will be rewarded. Out of that thirty people or so, it varies from year to year, but I’d say out of 30-32 or something, 95% of the income of this ministry comes from about seven of those people. That’s about one in a million. Of the six million who come to the site, we have seven people who are very generous. It’s a little sad though, don’t you think? At least we have some.

For a few years, Dennis and I did most everything, the work, the contributions and so on. You all know my webmaster? Dennis Vogel, he’s the man who started He said, 'I thought you started it Ray.' Nope, Dennis did. I wrote the first article Exposing Those Who Contradict, then he said, 'we have to get this out to the world’ and he came up with the name. Actually the name was taken, Bible truths, so we put a hyphen in it. But now we own both of them, we own it with and without the hyphen. We’ve had people wanting to buy it. I think some want to buy it so as to shut us down, but it’s not for sale. I think Dennis told them for six figures we would consider it.  Because for six figures we could come up with another name and figure out how to get our readers to come over. 

« Last Edit: July 21, 2014, 01:16:58 AM by Kat »


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Re: Mobile Conference 2009
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2010, 03:05:31 PM »

                                     I HAVE TRIED TO SET AN EXAMPLE OF CHEERFUL GIVING

Now, I have tried to set an example, a personal example on not being materialistic and to be giving and being a cheerful giver, to give of my time and my talent and so on. I was just amazed when I got this email from one of our detractors, it accused me of begging for money. For about eight years now, my wife and I have not taken a vacation. We always took vacations, two or three a year and we haven’t taken any in the last eight years or so.
I put probably five to ten hours a day into our Bible-truths site. There were long stretches where I put in twelve to fourteen hours every day, even when I worked full time.

I usually didn’t work a forty-hour week, because I did roofing and all the days it rained you can’t work. So I hardly ever put a forty-hour week in, because of the weather, so I had a little more extra time in that way. I averaged about $40 an hour, so even on the shorter work week, I still did okay. I didn’t have any real expense, never advertised and my clients loved me, so it was just word of mouth... 'get Ray, he’s your man. Ray takes pictures.' I would too, when we tore a roof apart, I would take pictures. Because I know these shyster construction people and how they operate and I wanted people to know that I could be trusted. I had a Polaroid and I would go through them and I couldn’t make a Polaroid last a year, because I just took too many pictures and in nine months it was finished. I would go down and say, okay here’s what you’ve got and they’d see it and say, 'that’s not my roof, with all that rot.' Yeah, that's it and I’d say, is that your red Chevy there? ‘Well yeah.’  Then that’s your roof. So they knew we were up there working and not drinking beer.

I took an early retirement, if I would have stayed down there another five years, with all those hurricanes that came through there, I could have, as we said, 'cleaned up.' I would have got three or four crews and my best men, rather than working I’d have made them all foremen.

But if you take the hours I put in, five, ten, sometimes twelve, fourteen or sixteen hours a day… I sometimes sit at that computer, either studying or writing or answering emails, sometimes for six or seven hours at a time and not even get up for a glass of water. I’d sit there from 4:00 in the morning till almost noon. If you take the hours, $40 an hour times the number of hours I put in, 365 days a year... The only time I’m not on my computer or don’t do something with bible-truths is the couple of days I’m out of town at a conference. It’s the only time I’m not on my computer every single day of the year. If you multiply $40 by say just seven hours a day for ten years, it’s a sizeable amount of money… it’s about a million dollars. So, when people accuse me of being selfish or greedy or begging for money, they really don’t know what they’re talking about. Dennis has devoted hundreds and hundreds of hours many many thousands of dollars toward this ministry.

My wife and I try to be frugal and set an example, we do a lot with a little, you know. My wife will hardly buy anything unless she gets 50-75% off. That’s just the way she is. She’s a coupon cutter and takes advantage of all that stuff. Although we didn’t take a vacation, in August we went back to Pennsylvania for my class reunion. I bought a new shirt, which I’m wearing today and bought a jacket, but I got it on sale, it was $200 at JC Penney for $79. Got new shoes $25, they’re not real leather.

I told my wife she could fix the house up, she was excited about you all coming. We had been using hand-me-down drapes from when we bought the house six years ago and they were faded, tattered and looking kind of rough and she wanted to paint.  So I said go ahead and have somebody paint the walls and ceilings and make it look new and we put new drapes up. We bought the drapes for 50% off at JC Penney.

Now the rods, especially for the big windows, the big heavy rods and the hardware and everything that goes with them, were $100.  Nobody had those on sale. JC Penney didn’t have 50% off on those, nothing, they were full price. I just think that God blesses me all the time, because I called around and not only did nobody have any on sale, but they didn’t have what I needed. They didn’t have enough, told me they could order them and that’d take a couple of weeks.  Somebody said, ‘did you check Bed and Bath.’ I said, oh, they’re so expensive.  But I called them and they said, yeah, we’ve got something on sale. I needed six curtain rods for the big windows, the rods and the things that screw on the ends and everything, $100 for the lot. Then the smaller ones are like $69-$59. I needed six of them, six rods and the assemblies for six windows, three were one size and three were all different sizes. I didn’t want junk, so they had one of their best quality, top of the line on sale, six rods, all the right sizes. Now you tell me, just a coincidence?  $100 rods, guess how much? $19.95, that’s 80% off! My wife did a good job and I helped her some, to hang the curtains.

When I’ve work four or five hours at the computer, then I gotta get out and do something else, play with the cats or do something for a while. But God blesses me, in little things. I know when we moved in I wanted to set up the carport, because you only drive into two stalls and the rest you can’t drive in and I thought that it would make a nice recreation area outside. I like to sit outside and I wanted to fix it up and we went to Hobby Lobby. There was a loveseat, it was kind of an Egyptian/Grecian type design and I thought that is really neat that would look nice. It was over $400 and I thought no way.

My wife is a scrap-booker and some months later we went back up there and she wanted to get something for her scrap-booking and here’s this loveseat, it’s on sale. $400 down to $110… I bought it. I was afraid of this material on it, because it would be out in the weather and in six or eight months it would probably get mildew. I said, well I’ll take a chance. I’ve had it almost six years now and it looks like the day I bought it.

                                                    ANSWERED PRAYER FOR A HOUSE

Have I ever told you how I bought my house? We were talking about getting out of Miami and maybe retiring early and we thought we’d move to one of the smaller cities in north Florida. So we had a Bible study up here about six years ago in Mobile. While I was conducting some of this, my wife was out driving around at noon. When we got together she said, 'boy, this is a nice place, I never saw such friendly people, they are so friendly.' I said, Yeah, it’s a nice place.

Later on she said, 'you know we talked about moving out of Miami, would you ever consider coming back to Mobile? I used to live here before.‘  I said, no I never considered it for a minute, but maybe. That’s all it took and she was writing to the Chamber of Commerce and Real Estate companies.  Anyway, we came back about six months later and she had all these realtors lined up to show her houses.  So for the whole weekend, she was out looking at houses. There was nothing, they didn’t hardly showed us anything we were looking for.  They wanted to show us two story houses and we didn’t want one. So we didn’t find anything and it was Sunday evening and we were going to go back home. Sometimes we flew up, but we’d brought the car up.
We were staying with Dennis and the sun was going down and I stepped outside. I decided to hop in the car, I didn’t even tell them I was leaving, I just hopped in the car and took off. As I came down Cottage Hill, I was thinking, you know I think there are some subdivisions down Nolewood that we didn’t look at. I turned down Nolewood and turned into Lands Down side entrance. I saw a nice house for sale and I pulled up and was looking at it and a guy came out with his trash and I said, is this your house? He said, 'yes.' I said, well it’s nice what are you asking for it? He said, '$189,000.' I said, yeah, that’s a good price, but not for me. So I continued on and then I said a prayer out loud in the car by myself. This is what I said, God if you want me to move to Mobile find me a decent house that I can afford.

I continued through the subdivision and I came out to like the service road and I thought  I’ll just go back. Then I thought, no, I can go down to the bottom of the hill and hit Highway 90 and go that way rather than circling back through the subdivision. But right down at the bottom of the hill, I saw this sign in the yard, For Sale by Owner. I had my cell phone and called. A lady said, 'I just got out of the shower, give me five minutes and I’ll let you see the house.' I said okay.

Well it was pretty nice, so I asked what they were asking for it… $128,000. I didn’t see anything for $200,000 that I liked as well. They were leaving town for a few days and I couldn’t show my wife as it was getting dark and he was coming home to have dinner. So we waited a few days and went back so my wife could see it. They said, ‘128,000, we know the realtor said we can get a lot more for it, but we just want to sell it and get out.’ I said, I don’t want to haggle price with you, it’s well worth the money. I just don’t have much money, so would you take $125,000, that’ll help pay for some new appliances. 'Yeah, okay we’ll take $125,000.'  People that saw it said, ‘you didn’t buy this house, you stole it!’ I said, no I gave him what he wanted. My Allstate agent said now the replacement cost of my house is $300,00... I bought it five and a half years ago for $125,000.

I don’t know how many minutes it was from the time I said that prayer till I found that house, but not many, just a few minutes. So don’t tell me God doesn’t answer prayer. Anyway, be faithful in little things and God will give you more. But don’t be carnally minded, do the right things, think the right things... let God bless you, don’t try to force your own blessings.

Now I do have to admit though, about a year ago, when I was told I only had few months to live… I always had my eye on one of these flat screen televisions, but they were way too expensive. I thought, well if I only have a few months to live maybe this will be my last hurrah. So Sears had a sale on a good Panasonic, not a discontinued model and a three day sale (Thursday, Friday, and Saturday), so there was another discount. If I put it on a Sears card, I got another 10% discount, so I got a third off, which is pretty good. I got a 50 inch flat screen TV, so shoot me. [And you’re still alive.]  I’m still alive, over a year now.

« Last Edit: March 12, 2010, 01:04:43 AM by Kat »


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Re: Mobile Conference 2009
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2010, 03:06:06 PM »

I’m going to read a little of this email that this guy sent me. This man fervently believes in the ‘salvation of all,’ trust me when I tell you that believing in the salvation of all is not the test for spiritual conversion. He said;

I felt that I should mail you and thank you for all you do. God is using you in my life and I hope that your healing will come soon. (Ray’s comment: That’s nice… God is using your false teachings to sharpen me for His use.)

You’re not as foolish as those in orthodoxy, you have obviously been given ‘brains’ and the ability to teach with authority. You have so much to give, but you’re throwing it all away for your own ego. I beg you to turn from your false teachings and really understand what this means…

What do you think your cancer is, not the wrath of God? Jesus never sinned, yet He endured the wrath of God.  Are you above ‘your’ Master? I beg you to turn and accept that the wrath of God abides on all ungodlyness including your own.

Your teachings are ALL outward physical, they are the milk of the Word and you know what that means.  You know what your doing and just because those of YOUR flock don’t know any better and you ‘wow’ them with your ‘knowledge’ of how foolish orthodoxy is they think therefore that your ‘God’s prophet.’ You’ve turned so far against the word of God that you are now begging for money.

Do you think I get angry with such mean-spirited slander? No, I rejoice! Then he pronounces an anathema upon me (anathematized means to be excommunicated and cursed, it’s a prayer that evil and misfortune befall somebody). A nice Christian attitude. I hope we don’t have that attitude toward anyone. 

James 3:8  But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
v. 9  Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.

                                                                THE WIDOW’S MITE

You all know the story of the widow’s mite, right? 

Luke 21:1 And He looked up, and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury.
v. 2 And He saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites.
v. 3 And He said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all:
v. 4 For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.

The coin referred to in this passage was the ‘half prutah,’ also known in Greek as the ‘lepton.’ Leptons were first minted by Alexander annaeus beginning in the year 103 BC. These coins were of very low value and were used only in the poor province of Judea.

A mite, it’s worth half a penny, well I paid $12 for it, it‘s two thousand years old. It’s got little spurs on it, that’s because it was on like a band and they would stamp this thing really roughly and break them off. But it took two of those to make a penny. The widow had two mites, which is a penny. Back in the time of Jesus, it took about 48 mites to buy a loaf of bread. So two mites would buy maybe one slice of bread and one mite would buy half a slice of bread.

The widow who tossed her last two mites into the temple treasury has been extolled for two thousand years now for that cheerful act of giving. Christ was looking at these people tossing money into the treasury. Now this had nothing to do with tithing, this was for expenses, for the priests and the different people for some of the expenses of the temple. He said, did you notice all these rich people put a lot of money in there, but this widow she put in two mites. You know, she gave more than all of them, because she gave her livelihood, she gave all she had.

My question to you is, why do you think that story is in the Bible? [Attendees: It’s important.] I would think it’s important. 

2Tim 3:16  All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Remember I said Luke chapter 18, chapter 19, chapter 20, chapter 21 are all dealing with money and wealth. So in chapter 21 we have the widow’s mite.

I said I chose a topic because it’s one where I can know whether you’re carnal or not, because I know how many people in this room contribute to bible-truths. If you don’t, I’m not down on you, I love you just as much. But maybe it takes a little prodding for some of you. I’m not ashamed to say that I think it’s a good thing that everybody could give to this ministry. We could do a lot and we do a lot with a little.

You know in my Tithing Paper, I said I had never seen in this world of Christendom so little accomplished with so much. They have so much money and accomplish so little. Denny and I often muse about, if we had $10-20,000 a month… what they take in, in two or three hours. If we had that much a month, imagine how many people we would reach with this message. But, you know, people go away sorrowful.

I had a couple (might have been several years now) wrote me and thanked me for my Tithing Paper and said, “wow, was that an eye-opener, now we see the light. Wow, that’s so simple, boy were we taken in.’ It was a husband/wife doctor team, they’re both doctors from California. They were tithing $60,000 a year to their church. $60,000 a year! Boy they thanked me and said, ‘we were just taken in… we thought God commanded us to pay ten per cent of our salary.’ They just thanked me and thanked me. I have never heard from them again. They are so thankful to save that $60,000 a year, yet they wouldn’t give six pennies to the ministry that told them the truth... I don’t care.

Let me address this, because this person sent a very nasty, nasty email… and mean spirited, you know. “Ray, don’t be so stupid. God is pouring out His wrath upon you, what do you think this cancer is?” We had a parting of the way because of this one subject years ago. They were teaching that God pours out His wrath upon His Elect and I said you’re not going to teach that in our group.

Let’s just take a quick look at that. Because all of you will sooner or later come into some condition in your life where you’ll really wonder whether or not God is really angry with you and bringing a curse in your life or pouring out His wrath or something, because things aren’t going well and you’re praying, but your wife is going to leave you… you’ve got a disease… you’ve lost your job. You say, ‘whoa, God must really be angry with me.’

I want to show you that if you love God and you have the spirit of God, then God is not angry with you and he will NOT pour His wrath upon you.

Rom 1:18  For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness…

We are told that even God’s Elect are ungodliness & unrighteousness? Then God’s wrath IS revealed against us (God’s Elect), right? Rest of the verse:

v. 18 …of men, who hold (Gk: hold back/suppress) the truth in unrighteousness;

The Greek means hold back or restrain. “Hold back the truth in unrighteousness.” Does their ministry consist of “holding back the truth in unrighteousness?” Apparently so, as they contend that God’s wrath is upon them. I guess that they’re admitting that their ministry consist of holding back the truth in unrighteousness. Do you think they would want to admit that? Probably not.

(From notes)
Is Romans 1:18 speaking of God’s Elect? Or is this speaking of those who, “Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,” (Romans 1:22). The Concordant says, “they became stupid.” In Ephesians 5 it talks about the “children of disobedience.”

Ephesians 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
v. 7 Be not you therefore partakers with them.

So, if the wrath of God is poured out on the children of disobedience, Paul says, don’t you be one of them. Then that has to mean that there are those that don’t have to be one of them. “Don’t YOU be a partaker with them.” If God’s Elect are still “the children of disobedience,” then it is impossible and foolish on Paul’s part to admonish us to “BE NOT ye therefore partakers with THEM.”

Eph 2:3  Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Col 3:6  For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
v. 7  In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
v. 8  But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.

You don’t have to have the wrath of God poured upon you, as they are teaching we’ll all have the wrath of God… even Jesus Christ had the wrath of God poured on Him. NO, He didn’t! I mean, that’s not only heresy, that’s blasphemy to say that God was angry, indignant with His own Son.
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

No matter how bad things are going for you or you have terminal cancer like me or whatever, understand there is “no condemnation” from God upon your life. Wrath, anger and indignation is severe condemnation! Extreme condemnation! We have NO condemnation… none! But I tell you, when you become stupid you can try to make the word of God say anything. So I want to show you, what are you going to do with this though?

1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

That is pretty simple and straight-forward, isn’t it? You know what they teach that means? That the “us” there means the world. “God did not appoint (the whole world) to wrath,” but that the whole world would be saved? I just marvel at how people can just twist and distort and pervert the word of God.

I want to show you an example of how you pay attention to all the words. Because any time I come back to study a subject… now I just don’t want to study the same thing I did before, I want more and new information. So let me show you how I read this chapter now… or at least half of this chapter. I’m going to pay attention to the words. All the words.

So it says, 1 Thessalonians 5:9 “For God hath not appointed us to wrath.” They’re saying that means the world, He appointed the world, “us” is the world. God has appointed the world to wrath, but He is ultimately going to save everybody, so He hasn’t appointed them all to wrath. Well it isn’t that wrath last an eternity, anyway. Let’s pay attention to the words and see who is the “us.” When God says “not appointed us to wrath.” Is this the Saints, God’s Elect or is the “us” the unrepentant, unregenerate sinners of the world? Can you know for sure?Let’s pay attention to all the words.

1 Thessalonians 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye…

“Ye,” who is that? The sinners of the world, the unrepentant, the degenerates? No.

v. 1 … ye have no need that I write unto you.

Is he writing to the world? No.

v. 2 For yourselves (God’s elect) know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
v. 3 For when they…

Are “they” God’s elect? No…we have you, brethren, ye, yourselves, but “when they,” that’s somebody else, now we’re talking about the world.

v. 3 …shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

“But ye, brethren,” can you see that’s a different group? Is that simple enough for a first-grader?

v. 4  But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
v. 5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
v. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others;

Who are the “others”? That’s the “they”, that’s the “them,” that’s the world, that’s the sinners.

v. 6 …but let us watch and be sober.
v. 7 For they (that’s the sinful world) that sleep, sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
v. 8 But let us (different group), who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
v. 9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath…

Am I going too fast for anybody? Can you even conceive that somebody of normal intelligence would try to teach that the “us” there means the unrepentant, unregenerate world of sinners? Unbelievable!

v. 9 …but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
v. 10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.
v. 11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

So you have, ye - brethren - we - us - our - children of the day - children of the light - brethren - ye - you - yourselves, and then you have they - them - they (again) - the drunken ones of the night and so on.

That’s what I mean by when you pay attention to all the words, you can keep going deeper and deeper and deeper. If something really is true, it’s going to prove that truth… did I not just do that? Is there any doubt in anybody’s mind who the “us” is? God hath not appointed “US.” Is that talking about the whole sinful world of humanity? No. It is contrasting ‘them’ with the ‘they’ and then the ‘them.’

« Last Edit: May 28, 2016, 11:58:17 PM by Kat »


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Re: Mobile Conference 2009
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2010, 03:10:43 PM »
Audio 3 - Continuation of ‘Are You Yet Carnal’

                                                               DEFINE “SIX DAYS”

I don’t want to offend anyone and I hope I didn’t offend anybody talking about the widow’s mite. What I wanted to show you is there is a lot of stuff in the Bible and if you don’t pay attention to it… like how many of you really considered the story of the widow’s mite and said, ‘this is a lesson for me that God is teaching,’ how many? Probably not too many. But it’s in there, you know. This has been preserved in hundreds of millions of copies of the Bible, it’s in there for us, it‘s Scripture. Paul said to Timothy;

2Tim 3:16  All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

When you read and study the Scriptures APPLY THEM ALL TO YOURSELF for either “doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.” So I knew that was one area that I would get you, because I know how many contribute and it’s not many. 

But really when God devotes chapter eighteen, nineteen, twenty and chapter twenty one, all on wealth and money and riches and what you do with it, then that probably pretty important.

Mat 6:21  For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

So as I taught in this lesson, if you are not a cheerful giver… you are yet carnal. But I could have chosen hundreds of subjects. If you do not ‘do unto others as you would have them to do unto you,’ you are yet carnal.  Now we could give a whole talk on that… do unto others.

If you do not “turn the other cheek” (Mat. 5:39) … you are yet carnal. 

If you do not “humble yourself” (Dan. 10:12) … you are yet carnal. 

If you do not “…deem one another superior to one’s self” (Phil. 2:4 CLV) … you are yet carnal.

If you do not “pray without ceasing” (1Thes. 5:17)… you are yet carnal.

If you do not “but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God” (Phil. 4:6) … you are yet carnal.

I could go on for hours and hours.  EVERYTHING in the Scriptures that admonish you personally, you must obey and follow or ye are yet carnal.

These are all things from Paul. Some of them are commands of the Lord, as Paul says and others he says, I don’t have I specific commandment from Jesus to do this, but none the less it is something that he saw as necessary to do. So if it is in there and you read it, then you should do that. 

So we have got to get away from this idea that living a righteous life or living the spiritual life or being a Christian or whatever, consists of believing these ‘doctrines.’ You know, I believe this and I don’t believe that, believe this, not that… and that’s what makes you a Christian or whatever. IT’S A LIFE! It’s not a game. 

If you yell at your wife or you yell at your husband and talk down to them, you’re carnal. I don’t care how much you go to church or whatever else you do, if you do that, you’re carnal and you have got to stop doing that.

So first of all READ your Bible. You learn these basic truths and you say, ‘I know the Bible.’ There is a LOT in there, trust me there is a lot. I can take any subject and I can just keep going and going and going. I’m going to show you a little bit about how when “you pay attention to all the words” you can keep going and going and going. 

The great thing is, if what you are studying you believe to be the truth, then it is going to PROVE to be the truth. The more you study, it is going to prove to be the truth. I’ve been doing that with several subjects and no matter what direction I go, no matter where I go or how I go about it, what I knew to be the truth last year or five years ago, it’s still the truth. That’s not to say I was never wrong about things, but one thing is I’ve not been wrong about anything major that we have published in the last ten years. I mean you don’t see where I have an article up and now we had to take it down. Like they would say, ‘what happen to your Rapture paper Ray?’ Oh we found out there was a rapture? No.

So if you think, ‘well yeah, Ray’s got a lot of stuff, but there is a couple of areas I don’t know, I think he’s all screwed up on.’ Just give it time, because I would say that chances are that I probably spend a good deal more time on that than you did and I pretty much already know what you know, but what you don’t know is what I know.  That’s the difference. 

People ask me, ‘what makes you think you know more than all these ministers?’ In a haughty arrogant way, I don’t. But here is the answer to that, I know what they believe and why they believe it. But they don’t know what I believe and why I believe it, they don’t know that. That is a big difference. 

I’ve told ministers already, I could argue your false doctrine better than you do and I don’t believe it. But I could argue more convincingly than you do. If I wanted to be a real spiritual S.O.B. and somebody paid me a lot of money, I could give a talk on tithing and I’d get people to tithe. I’d have to lie, I’d have to distort the Scriptures, but I guarantee you I’d give them a more convincing talk on giving your tithe to some church or some lying charlatan than they do. Because I know the ins and outs of what it’s all about. 

So I know what they believe and I know why they believe it. What they don’t know is what I believe and why I believe what I believe. So sometimes I have more in reserve than you think, because I can’t say everything that I know about everything, all the time. There just isn’t time. But I could have taken all kinds of subjects, but I zeroed in on that one, just to let you know that I know there are areas that you don’t take it very seriously. So whether you do or you don’t now, that of course is up to you I’m just trying to teach you and help you out.

                                                    DO YOU DESPISE THE WORD OF GOD?

Now this section incorporates quite a lot of stuff… there’s a lot of scriptures.

Leviticus 26:15 And if you shall despise My statutes, or if your soul abhor My judgments, so that you will not do all My commandments, but that ye break My covenant:
v. 16 I also will do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague (alternating chills, fever, sweating), that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and you shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it.

Now that’s strong. That’s an agrarian setting, back in ancient Israel.

Job 5:17 Behold, happy is the man whom God corrects: therefore despise not the chastening of the Almighty:

Proverbs 3:11 My son, despise not the chastening of the LORD; neither be weary of his correction:

Proverbs 23:9  Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words.

Hebrews 12:5 And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks unto you as unto children, My son, despise not the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when you are rebuked of Him:

In Isaiah… from where I wrote about ‘The Towers’ paper.

Isaiah 30:12 Wherefore thus says the Holy One of Israel, Because YOU DESPISE THIS WORD, and trust in oppression and perverseness, and STAY THEREON:
v. 13  Therefore this iniquity shall be to you as a breach ready to fall…

He is going to bring a calamity, like the bulging out of a tower or falling down and being totally destroyed.

Now most people would never admit or concede that they despise the word of God. Not everybody who is deceived and doesn’t understand a lot of truth despises the word of God. They just don’t know, they’re deceived. But when you come to see and you study God’s word, and you know what it says and you absolutely refuse to believe it or obey it, then you’re despising the word of God. When you despise the word of God, you’re despising God.

I have some examples here of how the church just despises the word of God… they know better.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not ANY THING...

That’s pretty plain. There’s no great variant, mis-translations there or anything and yet the whole Christian world for the most part does not believe that. They don’t believe that… why?

Oh, they have this story of Lazarus and the Rich Man. Here is a case where a rich man and a poor man died, right? They did know something, because they were alive and talking back and forth between heaven and hell, supposedly. For that reason they have to absolutely demand that Lazarus and the Rich Man is not a parable, it’s got to be a literal, historical event that took place. Why? Because they despise that scripture that says, “the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing,” they despise that. So they’ve got to find something to justify their stupid pagan notion that when you die you go to heaven or you die and you go to hell. There’s nothing like that in the scripture - ‘Oh but, Lazarus and the Rich man’... but that’s a parable - ‘No it aint!’ Why isn’t it? - ‘Oh, because it mentions somebody by name.’

So I show them ‘parables’ that mention people by name and even God the Father and Satan and so on, are mentioned in parables. I wrote a whole paper of 40 pages or something on Lazarus and the Rich Man. I mean how many proofs do you have to have that this is a parable? I proved it up one side and down the other and people still say, ‘Ray, it’s not a parable.’ I have one other approach here. 

                                                              IF A PREMISE IS TRUE

Remember my thing, never forget:
If a premise is true, then all truthful and scientific research will back up the fact that your premise is indeed TRUE! But if your premise is false, then all truthful and scientific research will back up the fact that your premise is indeed FALSE! If something is true, you just keep digging and digging and you’ll prove it and prove it and prove it. But I’ve got another approach.

Is Lazarus and the Rich Man a parable? Because if it’s a parable, then it’s not literal. This man did not die and at the same time he died… he woke up and he was able to talk. One was in heaven and one was in hell and all of this other nonsense.  The rich man was supposedly being tortured by fire.

Let’s settle this very simply, because I’m telling you, the Bible tells us Lazarus and the Rich Man is a parable, it says that. You say, ‘I don’t think so, Ray.’ Well, it does and I’m going to show you. You just have to have eyes to see, ears to hear, that’s all. You have to pay attention to what? [All the words.] Yeah, pay attention to all those good words. So, let’s see how we do with this.

Luke 15:3 And He (Jesus) spoke THIS PARABLE unto them, saying…

Now, it says parable, in the singular. The thing is, over in Luke 16:19 my Bible has a heading that says, PARABLE of the Rich Man and Lazarus. That’s because whoever wrote this and put those headings in, was not a strict orthodox Christian or he would never have put that in there. 

PARABLE of the Lost Sheep:
Luke 15:4  WHAT MAN of you…

Now, is this a parable? Well yeah, it just said, verse 3 “He spoke this PARABLE.” That’s a parable, right? Then the next heading over in the beginning of verse eight says, the parable of the lost coin? It doesn’t say in the text that it is a parable. But that kind of sounds similar, the ‘parable’ of the lost sheep… the ‘parable’ of the lost coin… the ‘parable’ of the lost son… gee is there some kind of a common thread here? I think so.

PARABLE of the Lost Coin:

Luke 15:8 EITHER WHAT WOMAN having ten pieces of silver, if she lose one piece, doth not light a candle, and sweep the house, and seek diligently till she find it?
v. 9 And when she has found it, she calls her friends and her neighbors together, saying, Rejoice with me; for I have found the piece which I had lost.
v. 10 Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repents.

Now as far as proving whether or not that is a parable or not a parable, what is the most important word in those three verses? Is there anything in those three verses that proves that this is a parable, because it doesn’t say in the text.

[“Likewise“]. No, likewise only ties together the fact that the lesson to be learned here is tied in with somebody who repents.

[“What woman“]  No, that doesn’t tell you either, well it does a little bit. But people could argue that and say, ‘because you have “what man” and then “what woman,” that seems like a tie-in, right?’ But there’s a more important word than that. That’s good though, that’s part of it. It’s the first word, “either.” That’s what I’m talking about, I want you to understand how my mind works. Pay attention to ALL the words.

Why is that word “either” so important to prove that this next discussion is a parable? It connects to the first one, it is a connecting word. EITHER( Greek: ay - A primary particle of distinction BETWEEN TWO CONNECTED TERMS disjunctive, or comparative), see that? That’s what it says in Strong’s Dictionary of the Greek. “A primary particle of distinction between two connected terms“….“what man of you” (verse 4) is connected to “what woman” (verse, it’s connected by the word “either.” You don’t start off a sentence that way. If this was just a verse some place that said, ‘either what woman having ten pieces’… what do you mean, either? Why is the word ‘either’ there? Why don’t you just say, ‘what woman having ten pieces of silver’? Why would you say either? Either connects it to the previous parable. Do you see that? The word ‘either.’

Now you come down and theologians won’t debate whether these are parables, until you come to the fifth one. But I want to show how you can prove it. The next parable in verse 11, my Bible says;

PARABLE of the Lost Son:

Luke 15:11 AND He said, A certain man had two sons:

We have the parable of the lost sheep… parable of the lost coin… parable of the lost son. Now what do you suppose the most important word out of the next fifteen, twenty verses? [And?] Yes, the word “and.”  AND (Greek: deh - a primary particle (adversative or continuative; but, and, etc.: - also, and, but, moreover, now.)

It’s a continuing thought. There shouldn’t be a paragraph break there, you don’t end a paragraph and then start out a new paragraph with ‘and.’ It’s very closely related to the last one. “And” what? And - also. We’ve got, “what man” (verse 4) and “what woman” (verse 08) and we have “a certain man” (verse 11). In addition to these two “and” we have another one, so that’s three.

That parable of the lost son is pretty long. Then we come down to chapter 16.

PARABLE of the Unjust Steward/Servant:

Luke 16:1 AND He said ALSO unto His disciples, There was a certain rich man…
which had a steward; and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods.

So we have the two ideas of the parable itself, “a certain rich man,” the last one was “a certain man.” Do you see any similarity in that? The greatest theological minds in the world don’t see any connection there, ‘I don’t see any connection there with that. A certain rich man - a certain man? No, I don’t see any connection.’ Well of course not you despise the word of God.

Notice, we’ve got another word in here, in verse 1 “And He said ALSO…” See what happens when you pay attention to all the words. “And (Greek: deh - see above) He said also” (AND in addition to - ALSO included to the above parables examples.)  ALSO; Greek: kahee - a primary particle, having a copulative (to connect coordinate words or clauses) and sometimes also a cumulative force; and, also, even, so, then, too, both, but, even, for, if, indeed, likewise, or, so, that, then, therefore, when, yea, yet. 

So verse 1 “And (in addition to) He said also (these parable) unto His disciples, THERE WAS A CERTAIN RICH MAN… and that ties it right back to “the certain man” and the others. Then He discusses that parable. Then over in verse 19 He says;

PARABLE of the Rich Man and Lazarus:

Luke 16:19 THERE WAS A CERTAIN RICH MAN, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
v. 20 And there was a CERTAIN BEGGAR named Lazarus,

So, we have two here, and “there was a certain rich man… v. 20 AND there was a certain beggar…”  It’s amazing that they (orthodox Christians, pastors & priests, theologians and college professors) couldn’t see “a certain man…” “a certain rich man…” and “a certain rich man…” They say, ‘well the certain man, the certain rich man, yeah, I can see them, but the second a certain rich man, no, that won’t fly.’ Can you see the carnality in that? Can you see the twisted mind who would throw away the word of God, so they can believe their pagan nonsense?

THIS PARABLE… WHAT MAN OF YOU… EITHER WHAT WOMAN… AND He said ALSO… THERE WAS A CERTAIN RICH MAN… THERE WAS A CERTAIN RICH MAN… THERE WAS A CERTAIN BEGGAR… Is it Scripturally even possible that Luke 16:19 is not a parable… not unless Jesus lied!

Matt 13:34  All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake He not unto them:

John 10:6  This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which He spake unto them.

Mark 4:33  And with many such parables spake He the word unto them, as they were able to hear it.
v. 34  But without a parable spake He not unto them:

If you look, that’s just one other aspect of this. Maybe by next week, next month, next year I’ll say, wow look at this! Why can we keep finding more and more, because it’s true and it is a parable.

                                         WHAT DOES “THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH” MEAN:

What does that mean? I got this from the Internet site: The Phrase Finder. Are you ready for this? “The wages of sin is death” -- ”Meaning, sinners will be cast into everlasting torment.” That’s what that means, it says so. Where did they get that? They made it up! The lying fraudulent, hypocrites… they made it up, the Bible doesn’t teach that.

Rom 6:23  For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

So, what they’re really saying is that Paul said, ‘for the wages of sin is ETERNAL LIFE, but the gift of God is ETERNAL LIFE.’ It’s just that they say one eternal life is in heaven and the other is in hell. But they are both eternal life, right? But he didn’t say that. One is DEATH, one is LIFE. Two different things, death and life are not synonyms. Death is the absence of life and nowhere in Scripture is death called a ‘separation’ from God.

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                                  THREE (3) PRINCIPLES FOR UNDERSTANDING GOD’S WORD

So when you start studying the Bible, from now on, the first thing you need to fine out.

1)  WHAT DOES THE SCRIPTURE SAY?  If it’s nebulous, then check some translations. But find out what it says.
3)  BELIEVE WHAT IT SAYS! You’ve got to believe it.

That’s simple: be sure you’ve got the right words, look at all the words, believe all the words.

In Lazarus and the Rich man, they like to quote Matthew 25. You know, about being cast into everlasting fire. Their favorite proof text for this unscriptural nonsense.

Matthew 25:41 Then shall He say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from Me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

v. 46  And these (the ‘cursed’) shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

It’s there they say, the wicked go into everlasting punishment and the righteous into eternal life. They say, ‘Ray, it’s both the same Greek word.‘ So if the righteous receive eternal life, so that they don’t ever die, guess what? The wicked receive the same punishment that never ends, because it’s the ‘same word.’ Well, what’s wrong with that argument? What’s wrong with their explanation? [There is no word in the Scripture for ‘eternal.’] Well that’s true, but where did they get that word eternal? ‘Oh, from the word aionios.’ But that doesn’t mean eternal. ‘But then, you’re saying that the gift to the righteous people is not eternal life?’ That’s right. Nowhere does it say it’s eternal life. It’s aeonian life.

“Everlasting fire”: aionios - eonian, age-lasting [the adjective of the noun aion]. James Patrick Holding (aka Robert Turkel) agues on his Tetonic site that I am wrong on this and gives two examples to prove it: The noun super vs. it’s adjective superior, and the noun time vs. its adjective, timeless, price and priceless, etc., …Nonsense!

“Everlasting punishment”: aionios - “chastening eonian” (CLNT); “age-abiding correction” (Rotherham); “aionian cutting-off” (the lopping off branches of trees, to prune, Diaglott). Pruning trees does not punish them, but aids growth.

“Life eternal”: “age-abiding life” (Rotherham); eonian life (Diaglott); “life eonian” (Concordant)

Rom 2:7  To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honor and immortality (Greek: aphtharsia - incorruptibility, unending existence, immortality), eternal (age-abiding, eonian) life: (KJV)

Rom 2:7 to those, indeed, who by endurance in good acts are seeking glory and honor and incorruption, life eonian; (CLV)

Rom 2:7 Unto them, on the one hand, who, by way of endurance in good work, are seeking, glory, honor and incorruption, life age-abiding, (Rotherham)

‘Well, you’re saying that they’re going to…’ I’m not saying anything, I believe the scriptures, what do you believe? Apparently a bunch of hogwash. The scriptures say that the righteous will go into aeonian life. ‘What do they do then, die?’ I didn’t say that. The scriptures didn’t say that. ‘Well, if it’s only for an age, pertaining to an age, then how can you say that their life doesn’t end?’ Because they’re given “immortality,” because they’re given “incorruption.” You need to look at ALL the words.

There’s more than one way to skin a cat… There’s more than one way to come to a knowledge of the truth. You don’t have to always rely on just one verse or one word.

1 Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in INCORRUPTION:

It’s “incorruptible,” it can’t be corrupted, because it can’t decay, it can’t die.

v. 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a SPIRITUAL body…

Spiritual bodies don’t die.

v. 54 …this mortal shall have put on INMMORTALITY…

So whether aeonian life is so many years or so many centuries or whatever, it’s really immaterial as far as will we live forever? Yes, we’ll live forever, but not because that word says so. It isn’t the word aionios or aeonian or age-abiding that shows we will live forever, that shows two things, a certain duration. Jesus is going to reign for a thousand years… how long is a thousand years? Till He puts down all His enemies, it says so.

1 Corinthians 15:25 For He must reign, TILL He has put all enemies under His feet.

What kind of life are we promised with Him? “Aeonian life.” We reign aeonian with Him. ‘After that we die?’ No. Don’t try to mix apples with oranges.

Besides that, everlasting punishment: aionios - “chastisement eonian“ (CLNT); “age-abiding correction“ (Rotherham). The word “chastisement” comes from the word ‘to cut,‘ ‘to cut off,’ ‘to prune.’ Aionian cutting-off. When you cut back or prune a tree, are you torturing it, are you trying to kill it? No, it aids growth, you want it to produce more fruit. So, this is a good thing that the wicked will be ‘pruned.’ The word is “chastisement,” not punishment. Chastisement always carries the connotation of correcting what is wrong. If it was eternal, they would never be corrected.

                                                     CHALLENGES ON WHAT RAY TEACHES

A couple of years ago this fellow Craig Nolan challenged one of my Lake of Fire papers on hell. He said, ‘it says that “whosoever believes on Jesus Christ shall never die” (John 11:26).’ I said, No, in the Greek it is, shall not die for or into the eon, you will be ruling with Christ during that time. He fought me on that and I just would write email after email, sometimes five pages, for weeks. For weeks we went back and forth and they were putting this on our forum and some of the forum members said, ‘well, I think Ray has met his match here, I think Craig has got him nailed on this one.’ After five weeks, I just finally cornered him so badly with his own ridiculous nonsense, that he had to concede he was wrong. Of course I don’t know if everybody on the forum read that. 

I know that people from time to time say, ‘I don’t know about that Ray.’ I never claimed to be perfect and I will change if I’m shown that I’m wrong. You show me I’m wrong. If you have any thoughts about I’m wrong in something major, we can just talk about it or whatever. I can’t always spend weeks or months on something just because it comes up. Sometimes I have other things I need to do, not the least of which is to try to stay alive, as I’m not in the best shape.

Of course I was challenged by our little dissident group over the wrath of God. We talked about that a little bit and we went through that whole thing this morning and it’s just one more way to prove it. Who is the ‘us’ and who is the ‘they’? The ‘they’ and the ‘them’ and the ‘us’? We are the ‘us.’ Their arguments are just nonsense.

Let’s look at one or two other things here. This letter that this guy sent me - the one where he said I was begging for money and he anathematized me. Here is what he said.


Here’s the definition of what a day is; “And calling is the Elohim the light "day,” and the darkness He calls "night." And coming is it to be evening and coming to be morning, day one.” (Gen 1:5 CLV)

A ’DAY’ is the coming of the evening and the coming of the morning, not just the light = day. But it’s both the ‘coming of the evening and the morning,’ that makes a ‘day.’
Let’s hope God gives you the ability to see it.

Okay, let’s look at that a little more deeply. First of all, I’ve never argued that the coming of the evening and the coming of the morning is not called a day. I never said that. It plainly says it’s a day. Now it could just as easily be called a ‘time’ too. Because the same word translated “day” is the same Hebrew word that’s translated ‘time,’ so it could be “time one.” Though they call it “day one,” it could be called “time one.” I could show you a dozen scriptures where the word yom - day can be translated time.
So, I’m not arguing whether or not the scriptures call it a “day,” what I’m arguing is, it’s not what they call a 24 hour day. It’s not 24 hours.

Deuteronomy 10:10 And I stayed in the mount, according to the first time (day--yom), forty days (yom, same word) and forty nights; and the LORD hearkened unto me at that time also, and the LORD would not destroy thee.

Do you see how they translated time? For the “first time, forty days and forty nights.” If a day is 24 hours, why did he have to say “and nights”? If a day is 24 hours, then forty days would be forty times 24 hours, right? Why then put in forty days AND forty nights? A day includes the night, doesn’t it? NO. That’s why they put it in, because a day does not include the night. This is so basic to the scriptures and yet there’s hardly a person alive who knows this. 2300 times I think, the word “day” or “days” is found in the Old Testament scriptures and I can’t find one that means 24 hours… not one! If you know of one, let me know.

There are lots of verses where you’d think, well that’s a 24 hour day, ‘they went on a seven day journey,‘ or something like that, right? Isn’t that seven 24 hour periods? That’s not what it says. Can the night be included in that? It can. Is that what it means? No. You go on a seven day journey, you start out one morning when the sun comes up, you journey one day… the next day, when the sun comes up, you journey another day… the next day… and you journey seven days. [Attendee: and nights?] No, they would never ‘journey’ at night, you sleep at night, you rest at night.

So, people try to show me, ‘oh, here’s one Ray. “Six days shall you labour and do your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath.” There you go. The Sabbath is a whole day, right? All day from sunset to sunset, you shall keep your Sabbaths, from evening until evening (Lev. 23:32). So, isn’t this an example of a 24 hour day?’ NO. ‘How so?’

He’s not telling us to rest and not do any work for 24 hours, He’s only telling us not to work on the Sabbath DAY, during the daylight. How do we know that? Because He reflects back to the fact that we are to work for six days and then rest the seventh day.

How long were the days that they worked? Twelve hour days. They did not work 24 hours a day, day after day after day for six days, before they took a break. He didn’t say, you shall work for six days and six nights, then you get a break. Six DAYS.

So that doesn’t prove that a day has 24 hours in it at all. Whenever the night is included, it says so. Then it says, day and night. [Even Jesus said there were 12 hours in a day.] Yes He did (John 11:9), nobody believes Him.

Here’s a couple of scriptures. On that last one, “forty days and forty nights” is reckoned as the “the first time” (Heb. Yom/day). So there’s yom, which is translated day, translated “time” here and it lasted for “forty days and forty nights.”

Deu 20:19  When you shall besiege a city a long time (day--yom)…

Joshua 11:18  Joshua made war a long time (yom--day) with all those kings.

1 Sam 7:2 And it came to pass, while the ark abode in Kirjathjearim, that the time (yom--day) was long; for it was twenty years:

How long did that “time” period last? “Twenty years.” It’s called a yom or a day.

1Kings 11:42  And the time (yom--day) that Solomon reigned in Jerusalem over all Israel was forty years.

A forty year ‘day.’

2Kings 10:36  And the time (yom--day) that Jehu reigned over Israel in Samaria was twenty and eight years.

This ‘day’ lasted twenty-eight years!

1Sam 27:7  And the time (yom--day) that David dwelt in the country of the Philistines was a full year and four months.

Here’s one that’s a year and four months. But they are all called a ‘day.’ A yom - a day is often used in scripture to represent a period of time, sometimes consisting of a very long period of time, even years.

Here’s the main point to learn from this section: The way the Bible oftentimes uses a day, like in Genesis where God said, “let there be light… the evening and morning were the first day.” The way that the Bible oftentimes uses the word “day” is not the ‘definition’ of the word day. 

Their contention is this:
1) That this is the DEFINITION of the word “day.”  IT IS NOT.
2) That it was a 24-hour day.  IT IS NOT. 
Both premises are false and unscriptural. Now, let me see if I can make that clear for you.

Joel 2:11 And the LORD shall utter His voice before His army: for His camp is very great: for He is strong that executes His word: for the day (24 hours?) of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?

Is that day 24 hours long? Now you’ve read everything that happens in “the day of the Lord,” it’s a long period of judgment. It’s not a 24 hour period. So, can you define the word “day” by saying, a day is a long period of time of God’s judgment? That’s the definition of a day? No, it‘s not. That’s a way of using the word day, it is not the definition of the word day. I’ll give you another one in Joel.

Joel 2:2 A day (24hours?) of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness…

So, is a period “of darkness and gloom and thick clouds,” is that the definition of the word day? No. It’s just how that is used in Joel’s prophecy, that’s all.

2 Peter 3:8 …that one day (24 hours?) is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

So, is thousand years the definition of the word day? Are you following me? No, a thousand years is not the definition of the word day. Now a day can be defined as a long period of time, as many dictionaries do. I haven’t seen one that defines it as a thousand years. But the Bible uses that example, it’s ‘like’ a thousand years.

Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day (24 hours?) that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

Okay, what do my detractors say that a day is? 24 hours, that’s the definition they said. Remember they said, it’s the daylight period and the night-time period, that’s a day, 24 hours. Did God create the heavens and the earth and all that in them is, in 24 hours? Well then how can that be the definition of the word ‘day‘? Because here it says, “These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth… IN THE DAY,” singular, one day. It’s got to be more than 24 hours there, doesn’t it? So is 24 hours the definition of the word day? No. No it is not.

Psalms 95:8 Harden not your heart, as in the provocation, and as in the day (24 hours?) of temptation in the wilderness:

Is it forty years temptation in the wilderness, if I look in the dictionary at ‘day?’ Forty years temptation in the wilderness? Does that sound like the definition of the word day? ‘What’s a day? Oh a day is forty years temptation in the wilderness.’ Are you crazy? How come people can’t see this stuff? It’s not that hard. But when you despise the word of God, you can’t see anything. 

Now, why is this so important? People say, ‘Ray, is this one of your pet peeves?’ No, I’ll tell you why it’s such a big deal. You have the ‘us’ and the ‘them,‘ right? God is not appointed ‘us’ to wrath, but there is coming wrath, on whom? ‘Them.’

The whole world of non-believers and let’s specifically talk about the scientific community, the ones who’ve studied a good bit of the aspects of both sides of this thing. What is one of the reasons they just flat-out reject the word of God? Because of these two-faced, lying, hypocritical theologians, that’s why. Like this guy who wrote me this email, like he had some vague idea of what he’s talking about. He’s not got a clue.

When somebody suggests to scientists, ‘you know, you ought to obey the scriptures,’ or ‘you ought to believe the Bible.’ They reply, ‘what? Do you really believe that God created this earth six thousand years ago, are you crazy? Here’s five thousand proofs… here’s billions of tons of strata, all of them prove that the earth is very old. You cannot account for five miles of sedimentary rocks which are laid down by water happening in one flood, in a year. Come on! It’s not even conceivable. It took millions and billions of years.’

(From notes)
So it is the Christian theologians and teachers that are causing God and His Word to be blasphemed in the world today. They assume that what teachers teach about the Bible is true. Maybe they never read a word of the Bible, but they know that theologians teach that God created the heavens and the earth six thousand years ago in six 24-hour periods. They know that that’s what is taught and they know that it is foolish nonsense. So they turn their back on God. Little do most of them know that the Scriptures are in total agreement with most of the findings of geologists, scientists, astronomers, etc. It is very important that we know the truth on such vital subjects.

God is being blasphemed among the nations, by whom? By the people like this guy who wrote me this email, ‘Ray, here’s the definition of a day…’ Oh, really!
Audio 4

                                                                  DEFINE THE DAY

Let’s get back to our study on ‘the day.’ We want to be able to represent to the world or anybody that asks you, how to prove to them that the scriptural explanation of how God created the heavens and the earth and how long it took and how long ago it was, is in absolute keeping with what science has found. Absolutely.

Not that scientists are right about everything, but as long as they are sticking to their science, almost all scientists are honest. I’ll tell you which science I’ve found where scientists are not honest. The scientists like Stephen Austin and these guys who try to defend the ‘young creation.’ Now I can show you where these people lie or distort or misrepresent. Why would they do that? Because the truth doesn’t uphold their teaching, that’s why. When we get into the talk about Jesus Christ, I’m going to show that too… how people would distort and twist the scriptures and say, ‘well the scriptures says this…’ They say no such thing. Why do they say that then?Because they have to say something to justify their heresy. The truth won’t justify it, so they have to lie.

So he [emailer] says, ‘Ray, here’s the definition of a day, “there came to be evening, there came to be morning... day one.” There’s your day. Daylight… darkness… day/night, one day, 24 hours.’

Let’s look at it. Let’s look at all the words.

Concordant Literal
Gen 1:5 And calling is the Elohim the light "day” (24 hours?)…

Now was that day, the light period, 24 hours? No. Well, they’re in big trouble already in the fifth verse, because it tells us that God called the daylight, day. That’s the definition of a day. “He called the light - DAY.” It’s not 24 hours. If DAY was 24 hours, there wouldn’t be any night. Are you following me? Do you think you could repeat that to somebody?

v. 5 …and the darkness He calls "night (24 hours?)…"

Is that 24 hours? No.

v. 5 …And coming is it to be evening and coming to be morning, day one.

Excuse me, did God change His mind as to what the definition of a day was halfway through a verse? Is He telling us in the first part of the verse that the daylight portion, when the sun is out is called DAY. Now He is telling us that the evening and the morning (it does call a day), which they interpret as being daytime and nighttime is a day, it can’t be both.

This very exact word in Hebrew meaning “he is COMING” or “IT IS COMING” is used hundreds of times in the Old Testament, and we can learn a lot from how it is used.

First, just what in the world does God mean by “it is coming?” Coming from where? Notice this in the Concordant Literal.

Gen. 1:3, And saying is the Elohim, "Become light!" And it is becoming light.
Verse 9  and it is becoming so.
Verse 11 and it is becoming so.
Verse 24 and it is becoming so.
Verse 30 and it is becoming so.
NO, when God gave these commands, it was NOT so, but rather it was “becoming so,” over an extended period of time. So there was not “evening and morning,” as the King James and others say, but only after it CAME to be so, WAS it so.

God told us what DAY is. It’s the light. They say, ‘No, day is the light and the dark.’ Does the scripture say that a day is the light and the dark? Well, they would say, ‘yes, it’s the evening and the morning.’ Jesus Christ didn’t say, And calling is Elohim the MORNING Day, does it? The EVENING He calls Night? Is that what it says? If you look it up in a dictionary, the word ‘day’ and the word ‘morning,’ will it give you the same definition? [No.] Well then how can they be the same? Why does it use different words? It says in the New Testament to distinguish between things that differ. If they’re different, you make that distinction. This is really elementary.

« Last Edit: May 29, 2016, 12:47:38 AM by Kat »


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Re: Mobile Conference 2009
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2010, 03:15:40 PM »

What I am trying to show you: If you pay attention to the words and you pray and you meditate, God will show you these things... you can keep finding more and more and more truth, there’s no end.

I have no doubt in my mind, if I went home and spent all week studying, I would find so much more, but I can’t spend my whole life on one subject. Notice that the darkness is NOT called day. Night is not day. 

Genesis 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day,

What’s their definition of day? 24 hours, right, their definition of day is 24 hours. Did God make the sun to rule the day for 24 hours? Well then, how can 24 hours be the definition of day? It’s not!

v. …and the lesser light to rule the night:

Is that 24 hours? No, that’s 48 hours… that’s a further definition of day, from 24 and now we’ve got 48.

Now my third point here. If the day is 24 hours, then the sun would rule the day AND the night, right? But He didn’t say He made the sun to rule the day and the night. There’s a major problem with that too and what’s that? If the sun ruled the day and the night, there wouldn’t be any night. They call me stupid… ‘you just teach the milk of the word, Ray.’ They don’t even know what the milk is. Come on.

The sun rules the day, the sun does not rule the night. The day is not 24 hours long. How many proofs do we have now? Six? Eight? How many more do you want… twenty, thirty, we’ll find them. David knew that day and night were two different things.

Psalms 74:16 The day is thine, the night also is thine: you have prepared the light and the sun.

Is the day 24 hours and the night a different 24 hours? That’s 48 hours. David knew there was a difference between day and night and he also mentions there’s a difference between day and night and noontime.

Psalms 55:17  Evening, and morning, and at noon, will I pray, and cry aloud: and He shall hear my voice.

So there we have proof that just a “evening and a morning” do not represent a 24 hour cycle, seeing that “at NOON” is also part of David’s prayer day. In fact neither “evening and morning AND NOON” combined represent an entire 24 hour cycle. David did not praying FROM evening UNTIL morning and then FROM morning UNTIL noon, and then again FROM noon UNTIL evening, which would have been a full 24 hour cycle. These represent only three PORTIONS of a 24 hour cycle. If David prayed for one hour in the evening, morning and at noon, it represents in this scriptural example only about 13% of a 24-hour cycle. If evening, morning (and noon) is the definition of a 24-hour day, then David did nothing in his entire life, except pray. He never went to war, never ate, and never slept.

John 11:9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day?

Let’s use their definition, should we? What is a day? The clown just told us, ‘it’s the day and the darkness,’ is what he said, right? 24 hours, right? Alright, instead of using ‘day,’ we’re going to use their definition of day. Now let’s see how stupid these people get, when they despise the word of God.

John 11:9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in 24 hours?

Is that what He said? No, He said there are 12 hours in the day and a day is not 24 hours. If a day is 24 hours, then there can’t be twelve hours in a day. Don’t think I get angry at these people, I only get angry at their stupidity.

2Peter 1:19  We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn (does the ‘day’ dawn at dusk? In the evening? In the dark?), and the DAY STAR arise in your hearts:

Is this ‘milk’ of God’s Word? Is this “day star” a 24 hour star? Can they see anything spiritual? Strong’s: day star: G5459 phōsphoros; light bearing (“phosphorus”), that is, (specifically) the morning star (figuratively): - day star.

He [emailer] said, ‘Ray you would never dare to teach from something spiritual like the book of Revelation. You’ll never attempt the book of Revelation or any other spiritual teaching, because you have no clue as to what’s being talking about. Your flock may not know about this, but I do.’

First of all, the only truths they teach from the book of Revelation is what they learned from me. They wrote 400 pages of commentary on that and then when I showed them how utterly ridiculous it was, they took it off their site and it’s never been back.

All right watch out, Ray is going to teach something ‘spiritual’ from the book of Revelation.

Revelation 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and THE BRIGHT AND MORNING STAR.

Let’s take all this stuff as literal, now. “The bright and morning star.” Dr. Strong, morning: G3720 orthrinos; relating to the dawn, that is, matutinal (as an epithet of Venus, especially brilliant in the early day): - morning.
Then it’s also the bright and MORNING STAR, it is the DAY Star, and that “Day Star” is Jesus, not some physical, unscriptural 24-hour cycle which would also include the NIGHT. Jesus is not called the ‘night star.’ He is not of the night and day star, but “the DAY Star.” Paul says;

1 Thessalonians 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

“We are not of the night,” like ‘they,’ we are of the DAY. Jesus Christ is the DAY Star, not the night star.

John 9:5  As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.

2Peter 1:19  We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the DAY STAR arise in your hearts:

The Day Star means light and the light (Jesus said), consists of twelve hours, not 24.

John 11:9  Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he sees the light of this world.

He talks about you walk in the day, so you don’t stumble, because you can’t see at night. Those are two different things. Now, let’s look at the dictionary definition of DAY:

Day: 1.  The period of LIGHT between dawn and nightfall: The interval from sunrise to sunset. Do you see night in there anywhere? No.

[Attendee: Isn’t that like “evening and morning’ in Genesis 1? Evening when day period ends and morning is the light period begins.] Exactly. How long does that evening last? How long does a morning last? 

‘Well what about Gen 1:5?’ “And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. The evening and the morning were the first day.” (KJV)

Or: “And calling is the Elohim the light "day, and the darkness He calls "night." And coming is it to be evening and coming to be morning, day one.” (CLV)
It does not say: And coming is it to be NIGHT and coming to be DAY, day one.
It does not say: And coming is it to be EVENING and coming is it to be EVENING AGAIN, day one. 
No, here is what it really does say: “And coming is it to be evening [DUSK] and coming is it to be morning [DAWN], day one.” (CLV)
The coming of DUSK & DAWN was “day one,” not the coming of night time and day time. Not 24 hours. Let’s be Scripturally honest, shall we? These verses do not say that coming is it to be night and coming is it to be day, day one… second day… third day… Etc. So Genesis 1 does not prove a ‘day’ means 24 hours, nor does any other Scriptures using “evening and morning” represent a 24 hour period.

You can’t make this assumption that they do, that evening means nighttime. Evening is not nighttime. Evening is dusk, that’s that short period, that transition from light to dark. That’s evening, dusk. 

The transition from darkness to light, what the Bible says morning, it’s dawn, it is a short period. It is not even twelve hours, it is a short period. It doesn’t say, and there came to be nighttime and there came to be daytime. No, “evening” and “morning.” Why?

Because those words in the Hebrew carry a connotation of confusion, shadows, darkness, disarray, chaos, and then we have the light. It’s just God’s way of doing things. You will see that everything that God is doing is that He brings order out of chaos. The first thing that God does in chapter one verse one; “God created the heavens and the earth.”

Then in verse two the earth is in chaos. That’s the way that the Concordant translates it “chaos.”

Gen 1:2 Yet the earth became a chaos and vacant, and darkness was on the surface of the submerged chaos. Yet the spirit of the Elohim is vibrating over the surface of the water. (CLV)

But this is NOT a condition suitable for humanity:

Isa. 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created [Heb: barah - bring a new thing into existence] the heavens; God himself that formed [Heb: yatsar - He ‘yatsar/formed humanity {Gen 2:8} and He yatsar/formed the earth to be inhabited] the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created [Heb: barah] it not in vain, [Heb: tohu--to lie waste; a desolation (of surface), that is, desert; figuratively a worthless thing; adverbially in vain: - confusion, empty place, without form, nothing, (thing of) nought, vain, vanity, waste, wilderness] he formed it to be inhabited: [‘to dwell, to inhabit’ Concordant: Gen. 1:2(CLV) Yet the earth became a CHAOS and vacant-uninhabited!], and darkness was on the surface of the submerged chaos. Yet the spirit of the Elohim is vibrating over the surface of the water].

It was submerged in water and the Spirit of God was moving over the face of “the submerged chaos,” the Concordant says. Then He goes through these six cycles of producing something useful. So what is the solution to such uninhabitable, chaotic, DARKNESS? This is amazing stuff: Which came first the chicken or the egg?Which came first, darkness or light?

Isa. 45:7 I form [Heb: yatsar - to mold into a form] the LIGHT, and create [Heb: barah - bring something new into existence] DARKNESS: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Now Gen. 1:3 “And God said, Let there be LIGHT: and there was [Heb: is becoming] light.” The coming of “light” ushers in the six time periods for refashioning chaos into order, from (Gen. 1:2) tohu--to lie waste; a desolation (of surface), that is, desert; figuratively a worthless thing; adverbially in vain: - confusion, empty place, without form, nothing, (thing of) nought, vain, vanity, waste, wilderness. To (Gen. 1:31 from Onkelos) “a unified ORDER.”

Does God give us any examples of just how chaos is turned into order? Yes (Gen. 2:11-12 --GOLD and Gems-- and later men have found diamonds. And did God “create/barah” these things in Genesis 1:1 or did “the earth bring them forth” (Gen. 1:11)? Gold and diamonds come from violent and chaotic eruptions of the earth’s surface -VOLCANOES!

The whole plan of human salvation is based on this process of going from “chaos to order.” Read I Cor. 15:42-58.....Human chaos and tragedy to harmonious, spiritual VICTORY!!!

Genesis 1:31 And God saw every thing that He had made, and, behold, it was very good.
Onkelos, a famous Jewish Cabbalist translates “very good” to “it was a unified order“.

“And coming is it to be evening and coming to be morning, the sixth day/yom/time.” Some of those old people studied languages and they see things that we don’t see. It started out with chaos and after six periods of chaos and order, and chaos and order, we now have everything was a unified order.

Look at our lives. Look how chaotic our lives are. But God is bringing order out of our chaotic lives. My body is all diseased and riddled with cancer, prostate cancer, bone cancer, from my arms and legs to my skull, to my cheek bones, to my jaw… cancer, that’s chaos. That’s rotting, corruption, confusion, see. But hopefully out of this God is going to bring order, harmony, something good. That’s the way God operates, He always starts with chaos and ends with order. The very first thing, the creation and we find it is all in chaos and no Satan didn’t come in and wreck it. So that’s what this “evening and the morning” is all about. 

Continue definition of DAY:
Day: 2. The light between two nights. 3. Daylight. 4. Daytime. 5. Sunshine. 6. An age.

These are all correct, these are all Scriptural things. Now they do say that one definition here is, 7. the mean solar day of 24 hours, beginning at mean midnight. But that’s a modern usage of it. Now we start the days at midnight and we don’t sleep all night… we’ve got the “third shift” where a lot of people are going to work at midnight, not going to bed. So a day can consist of a night in certain instances. A night can never consist of a day. Do you follow that?

Another major proof that they’re not the same. Nowhere in the Bible will you find a definition of a day being one evening and one morning. There’s no such thing.

end of audio 4

Dictionary definition of NIGHT:
Night: 1. The period from sunset to sunset. 2. The period of actual darkness after sunset and before sunrise. 3. The time from dusk to dawn when no sunlight is visible. 4. Any period or condition of darkness or gloom. 4. A period of intellectual or moral degeneration. 5. A time of grief. 6. Death. The beginning of darkness.

Nowhere in Scripture that I have found is a day specifically composed of both the daylight and the darkness of night. So clearly they are different and must be defined differently.


ONE day...
Gen 33:13 And he said unto him, My lord knows that the children are tender, and the flocks and herds with young are with me: and if men should overdrive them one day, all the flock will die. Note:

NOT 24 hours. They did not drive the herd all day AND all night long.

TWO days…
Ex. 16:8 And Moses said, This shall be, when the LORD shall give you in the evening flesh to eat, and in the morning bread to the full…
Exo 16:29 See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he gives you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.

The bread was gather in the morning only - two mornings equals TWO “DAYS.” Now then: Did they eat flesh for 12 hours (all day) and then eat bread for 12 hours (all night). If “evening and morning” means a 24-hour day, then they ate flesh and bread for a total of TWENTY-FOUR HOURS!!

THREE days…
Gen 30:36 And he set three days' journey betwixt himself and Jacob: and Jacob fed the rest of Laban's flocks.

Did they drive them 72 straight hours?

FOUR days…
Judges 11:40 That the daughters of Israel went yearly to lament the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite four days in a year.

Did they lament for 24 hours a day - NINETY-SIX straight hours? They lamented during the day and then WENT TO BED AT NIGHT.

FIVE days…
Num 11:19 Ye shall not eat one day, nor two days, nor five days, neither ten days, nor twenty days; But even a whole month, until it come out at your nostrils…

Did they eat 24 hrs a day for a month?

SIX days…
Exo 16:21 And they gathered it every morning, every man according to his eating: and when the sun waxed hot, it melted.
v. 22 And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses.

SEVEN days…
Gen 31:23 And he took his brethren with him, and pursued after him seven days' journey; and they overtook him in the mount Gilead.

Did they journey for 168 straight hours? No, they journeyed seven DAYS (day-LIGHT, while the SUN WAS SHINING).

EIGHT days…
2Ch 29:17 Now they began on the first day of the first month to sanctify, and on the eighth day of the month came they to the porch of the LORD: so they sanctified the house of the LORD in eight days; and in the sixteenth day of the first month they made an end.

Is there reason to believe they worked 24 hr days?

NINE days…
Num 7:60 On the ninth day Abidan the son of Gideoni, prince of the children of Benjamin, offered:

Did Abidan's offering take 24 hours?

TENTH day…
Exo 12:3 Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for an house:

Not the tenth NIGHT, nor 24 hours.

ELEVEN days…
Deu 1:2 (There are eleven days' journey from Horeb by the way of mount Seir unto Kadeshbarnea.)

Eleven “days,” or daylight periods, not 264 hours!

TWELVE days…
Ezr 8:31 Then we departed from the river of Ahava on the twelfth day of the first month, to go unto Jerusalem: and the hand of our God was upon us, and he delivered us from the hand of the enemy, and of such as lay in wait by the way.

Since a ‘day’ is the ‘sun-lit’ portion of a mean solar cycle, yet our detractors insist that the creation periods in Genesis one all begin at “evening” which to them is the definition of a day, does anyone really believing that they waited until evening and began this trip IN THE DARK?

Est 9:18 But the Jews that were at Shushan assembled together on the thirteenth day thereof, and on the fourteenth thereof; and on the fifteenth day of the same they rested, and made it a day of feasting and gladness.

They did not assembly on the 13th day IN THE DARK. Also, if these days represent 24-hour days, then it is not necessary to assemble on the 13th AND 14th AND 15, seeing that on the 14th and 15 they would have ALREADY BEEN ASSEMBLED FROM THE 13th!!

Est 9:19 Therefore the Jews of the villages, that dwelt in the unwalled towns, made the fourteenth day of the month Adar a day of gladness and feasting, and a good day, and of sending portions one to another.

There is no reason to believe this feast day lasted 24 hours, and then at sunrise of the 15th day, they all went to bed.

Num 29:12 And on the fifteenth day of the seventh month ye shall have an holy convocation; ye shall do no servile work, and ye shall keep a feast unto the LORD seven days:

I’ve heard of long sermons, but 24 HOURS? Did they eat and feast 24 HOURS A DAY FOR 168 STRAIGHT HOURS!? How many more examples do you want?

« Last Edit: May 29, 2016, 01:02:26 AM by Kat »


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Re: Mobile Conference 2009
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2010, 03:17:10 PM »
audios 5

                                                                IS JESUS “GOD?”
[The origin of the most famous Personality in the history of the Universe is still an enigma to the Church that bears His Name]

Who is Jesus Christ? We talked about worship… should we worship Jesus? Should we pray to Jesus? Or, should we just respect Him as the great man that He was? I think it is a legitimate subject to know the answer to. I talked somewhat about Jesus at the conference a couple of years ago, in Nashville. This is all different, all new stuff.

Now I have six propositions put forth by four or five different people, different churches, different religions as to who or what Jesus is.

                                          SIX UNSCRIPTURAL THEORIES ON CHRIST’S ORIGIN

[1] Jesus is a myth; a religious hoax; an historical fraud… There never was a real Jesus. That’s one theory.

[2] Jesus was not a real person. But He is real in that He is the spiritual principle of all that is or can be good about humanity and its potential for righteousness. He is a spiritual principle rather than a literal, real historical person.

[3] Jesus was a real historical figure, but just a man. Nothing supernatural, nothing divine about Him, just a unique great man.

[4] Jesus was indeed the Son of God, conceived by the Holy Spirit of His father God in the womb of a human mother.  But had no pre-existence of any kind before becoming human. Jesus was never God and never will be God.

[5] Jesus did exist before his human birth and co-existed with God the Father from eternity. He had no “beginning,” but was the beginner and creator of all else. All was created by God the Father, but it was accomplished through Jesus. Jesus was the instrumentality behind His Father’s creation. Jesus therefore the eternal second person of the Godhead trinity.

[6] Jesus existed as God before His human incarnation and not only was and is He deity; not only was and is He God; but in reality, JESUS ALSO WAS AND IS THE FATHER. Did you know that religions teach that? Some Christians teach that He is not only God; He’s God the Father. Jesus is not a separate individual from His Father, but actually IS THE GOD FATHER changed into a human. Jesus, as God, in either the fifth or sixth theory are the reason why Christian theologians say ‘Jesus did not die on the cross.’ Why? Because He was God and God can’t die! I mean if there’s only one God and He dies, we’re in trouble. Who would resurrect Him if He did die… who would do that?

Now, are there any scriptures to suggest that any of these explanations, of who or what Jesus Christ was, is true? Is there anything in any of these theories? Is there anything that looks like, ‘well that could be true.’ Yes there is. There are several scriptures that could be used to suggest that Jesus Christ is the creator of all and that He is indeed called God. That could be applied to either the fifth or the sixth theory. Well, is this fifth or sixth theory then true? Nope. WHY? Because in spite of the fact that there are some elements of truth, there are also other scriptures that disprove other aspects of the same theory.

These six theories that I gave you, not one of them is true, not one. So we have one left and I think that’s the truth.

There’s a Rock Opera, ‘Jesus Christ Superstar’ Anyone ever heard of that? In there, there’s a song - Mary Magdalene sings this song and it’s entitled, ‘I don’t know how to love Him.’ It goes like this…


I Don't Know How To Love Him

I don't know how to love him.
What to do, how to move him...
...I don't see why he moves me.
And I've had so many men before,
In very many ways,
He's just one more.
Should I bring him down?
Should I scream and shout?
Should I speak of love,
Let my feelings out?
I never thought I'd come to this.
What's it all about?

Is that Jesus, just a man some girl might fall in lust over, just a man? Now the book that I have is entitled ‘Jesus was not a Trinitarian’ (by Anthony Buzzard) and I agree with that. He goes to some length to scripturally prove that Christ was not a Trinitarian and that there’s not a trinity in the scriptures. But there’s one problem; in wiping out the trinity, he also wipes out a great deal of the character and the glory and the majesty and the divinity of Jesus Christ and reduces Him down to ‘a man.’ He doesn’t say, ‘He’s just a man.’ He says He’s a unique man for sure, sinless, and now seated at the right hand of His Father. But He’s a man, that’s all He ever was, that’s all He ever will be, a man. Only now He’s immortal, an immortal man.

You know I had a falling-out with one of our inner circle, some years ago, who started to teach that Jesus Christ was sin.
2 Cor. 5:21 For He has made Him to be sin for us…

If you study that, you find that it should be “a sin offering.” “He was made to be a sin offering,” not that He was made to be the personification of sin, because the next phrase says;

 2 Cor. 5:21  …who knew no sin…

How can you be what you’re not? How can you be an opera singer, if you can’t “carry a tune”? How can you be an airplane pilot, if you’ve never been in an airplane? You can’t be what you’re not! Jesus cannot be sin and not sin. That’s an oxymoron or something.

I’ve thought about this in years past when I didn’t have the full answers to this. Could a man, just a man now, be the Savior of the world? See, if you’re going to argue that Jesus Christ was a man, only a man and nothing divine about him, there are all kinds of problems, just philosophically speaking.

Why would He have to be conceived by God? Why? He’s just a man and men are born all the time. So we want him to be of the line of Judah. All right, fine, let’s get a Jewish boy. You get a Jewish boy and Jewish girl, we’ll marry them and they’ll have a baby boy and he’ll be the Savior of the world. Why not?

Think about it. Let’s think about all the words. Why did Jesus have to be conceived by His Father? Why, if He’s just a man. Jewish women have boys all the time. If He had to be something special above a man, then He was no longer ‘just a man.’ Did I say something wrong? If He had to be something more than a man, then He’s more than a man, He’s not just a man.

Is any Jewish boy’s life worth all the billions of humanity combined? Is any Jewish boy worth that? [attendee: No.] How so?

Why didn’t God say, We need a Jewish boy… Jacobson, we’ll use you, we’re going to crucify you and you’re going to save the world that way. -- ‘Me?’
Yeah, what do you do for a living?  -- ‘I’m a carpenter.’
Yeah, that will do. You’re a carpenter, okay. We’ll kill you and that way I’ll save the whole world. -- ‘Of what value am I that my life is worth more than the whole world of humanity, billions of people?
What would God say?  Well yeah, you’re worth more than the rest of humanity put together. -- ‘How so? Why?’

So why was He conceived by God? If God wanted a man He could have chosen any man. If He wanted him to be born of a virgin… fine, he could be born of a virgin. But why did He have to be conceived by God Himself? WHY?

[Attendee: To have the spirit of God with Him from birth.] Well the Spirit of God was with a lot of people from birth. But then again, if He had God’s Spirit in a ‘special’ way from birth and it’s a little boy… He wasn’t just a man. Because no man goes through his teenage years without lusting after a pretty girl. So He had to be more than just a man. ‘Just a man’ lusts and that’s a sin. If He sinned, He can’t be the Savior of the world, He is not the perfect sacrifice. We need a perfect sacrifice that is flawless. There is no human being that is flawless. Jesus Christ said so Himself.

Matthew 19:16-17 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And He said unto him, Why callest thou Me good? there is none good but one, that is, God:

Now we’re going to make a second “good” one. But out of just a man? JUST a man? If Jesus is just a man and that’s all it takes to save the world, God could have used any Jewish boy to be the Savior of the world. I don’t think any of you really believe that would have worked. There’s more to Jesus Christ than just the fact that He was born like any other human being.

We need to be careful because if we let our minds go too far overboard here we’ll be like the man who told Bob (sitting back in the last row), ‘why Jesus Christ’s very fingernails were sin.’ Then he said, ‘Jesus Christ was no better than I am.’ Whoa, be careful!

Hebrews 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
v. 29 how much worse punishment, do you suppose, shall he be thought worthy of, who has trodden under foot the Son of God, and has counted the blood of the covenant, (that’s the blood of Jesus Christ) wherein He was sanctified, an unholy thing…

“An unholy thing” is the word ‘koinos’ (Strong’s 2839) it means common, something that is shared by all or several. 

In other words, just a man, same as any other man, common. It is also translated as ‘unclean’ when talking about ceremonial things.

Greek-English Keyword Concordance:
Common, belonging to all equally, by implication, NOT SACRED, contaminating (“to make common”).

Vines Concise Dictionary of the Bible:
Koinos - common, ordinary; belonging to the generality as distinct from something that is peculiar.

Of course this is precisely what the Rock Opera Jesus Christ Superstar has done with Jesus. They have demeaned Christ down to somebody that Mary Magdalene wants to commit adultery with.

So it is, woe be if you consider the blood of Jesus Christ to be like any other man’s blood. Yet one man told me that ‘His blood was no better than mine.’ Whoa, I would fear to even think something like that, let alone say it.

He was not common. He was not what is shared by everyone. It says

Php 2:7 …and took upon Him the form of a servant…

Rom 8:3 …God sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh…

Heb 2:7  You made Him a little lower than the angels;

He took on the form of a servant and He was made like unto sinful flesh and He was made a little lower than the angels… it’s not talking about somebody who came out in a natural childbirth. He was MADE. The scriptures say He was “made a little lower (or for a little while lower) than the angels.” WHY? So He could die!

Excuse me, if Jesus Christ were only a man, He would HAVE to die. Are you following me? Every human being that is born, dies.

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto (all) men once to die,

Jesus Christ had to be MADE a certain way, so that He could die. Do you believe it or do you despise the Word of God? God is not going to put the next world in charge under an angelic rulership and so on.

Hebrews 2:6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that You art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him?
v. 7 You made him a little lower than the angels; you crowned him with glory and honour, and did set him over the works of your hands:
v. 8 You have put all things in subjection under his feet.

This is talking about humanity, you know:

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.

“Dominion,” He put all in subjection under humanity, He left nothing that is not put under him.

Heb 2:8  Thou hast put all things in subjection under his (humanity) feet. For in that He put all in subjection under him, He left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him (under humanity).
v. 9 But we see Jesus, who was MADE…

You see that word, He was MADE. He wasn’t always that way. He had to be MADE that way. Now, if He were just a man born of a woman, He wouldn’t have had to be made anything.  Any man born of a woman will die. “It is appointed unto all men once to die,” but the only way Jesus could die was that God had to MAKE Him lower than the angels, so that He could die. Are you following me? Does it make sense? That Jesus was not ‘just’ born, before He got to the process of actually being born. He had to be MADE something else from what He was. WHY? Because what He was, He couldn’t die. God didn’t force this on Him. We learn all through the scriptures, Jesus Christ ‘volunteered.’

John 10:17  Therefore doth my Father love Me, because I lay down My life, that I might take it again.
v. 18  No man takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again.

He said nobody takes My life. God the Father did not say, I’m going to sacrifice You, come hell or high water and You aren’t going to have nothing to say about it. He said, “I lay down My life,” “I” do it, He says. He volunteered.

So, He was made a little lower than the angels for or because of the fact that He had to die.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that He by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

So Mr. Buzzard in his book says, He wasn’t just a man, but He was a man and He wasn’t anything more than a man. But certainly a unique man. He wouldn’t do like this other acquaintance of mine, calling Him common or unclean. But he says, He’s very unique, very commendable in every way, but He was a human being and nothing more.

He says, there was no preexisting Son of God as distinct from Jesus who did not preexist”/I] (page 142). Jesus, not God IS the “alpha and omega” who died (Revelation 1:08). God can not die, (I Tim. 6:16).

But what he fails to teach is what it says in Philippians 2:6-7 and Hebrews 2:9. Jesus “EMPTIED Himself” of His prior glories, so that HE COULD DIE. That’s what it says there in Hebrews. He had to be made different from any other normal Jewish man, so that He could die. Men who are born naturally of a woman through impregnation of a natural husband do not have to be made a certain way, so that they can die. They all die. 

But Jesus had to be made lower than the angels.  Now it says a “little lower,” but the Greek is “a little while lower.” Study that phrase… “a little while lower.” How long? Well, about 33 years… a little while. 

‘What about after that?’ He is going to be given back all the glory He had. ‘What about before those 33 years?’ He had all that glory. We have an interval in there... a little while. There’s no reason in the world to put that phrase in there that He would be made lower than the angels for a little while, if He hadn’t even existed in some other state that had to be changed so that He could die.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2016, 01:12:18 AM by Kat »


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Re: Mobile Conference 2009
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2010, 03:17:57 PM »

He (Buzzard) does admit something here that is rather interesting. He says "Jesus, not God, is the alpha and omega, who died" (Rev. 1:08). So He is the alpha and omega, Jesus not God... I’m going to hold him to that. When you teach something, you’d better stand by it, especially if it’s heresy.

Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Some say, ‘that’s God the Father.’ “I am the Alpha and Omega,“ Jesus, not God is the alpha and omega. Who is the Almighty? The Alpha and Omega. Who is that? Jesus Christ - “the Almighty.” 

Pantokrator is the Almighty G3841 Strong’s Concordance: pantokratōr - the all ruling, that is GOD (as absolute universal sovereign): ALMIGHTY, OMNIPOTENT. That is the definition of God in every way.

Genesis 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

Forty eight times, Shaddei is used of God, not of men. The Almighty God, is this God the Father? No. It says, “appeared” that is he could see Him.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time;

John 5:37 Ye have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His shape.

Is Christ a liar? Is the Bible a liar? He “appeared unto Abraham, and said unto him”…“Said.” Doesn’t that take a voice? Neither seen His form (or) heard His voice.
Well, who is this God that speaks? Well who is the Spokesman? Who is the “Word of God”? 

Mr. Buzzard would have you believe that John didn’t have all his marbles together when he wrote his version of the gospel. Who knows, Paul could have gone into the area of heresy a little bit. He (Buzzard) says, ‘we only read these things in John’s account.’ Oh, is that all? Well, you can’t believe anything that John says. Come on. He “APPEARED” and He “SAID.” Genesis 3 When God is talking to Adam and Eve where He calls to them in the garden. 

Gen. 3:8  And they heard the voice of the LORD God…

Well, did they or didn’t they? Was it the voice of God the Father? What did Christ say? Now if somebody can show me where all of these scriptures I have given you are mistranslated, you just hop in here any time you want.

John 5:37 And the Father Himself, which hath sent Me, hath borne witness of Me (this is Jesus Christ speaking),Ye have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His shape.
Do you believe it or do you despise the Word of God? Do we understand every word of the bible? No, but are we not understanding all of it? No, I don’t think so either, there’s a lot we understand. Is this verse pretty clear? Does this verse say ‘many people have heard the voice of God and have seen Him in many in divers times‘? Does it say that? No. Does it say they never have? YES. What are you going to believe? The Almighty APPEARED unto Abram, and SPOKE… Pay attention to the words and you’ll find wisdom and knowledge and truth and understanding all over the place… just pay attention to the words. Let’s go back to the first chapter of John again.

John 1:18 No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten Son…

You know I’m going to belabor this, but there are any number of translations including Rotherham, the NIV, Becks, New Revised Standard Version, The Concordant Literal New Testament… they translate that “the only begotten God.” 

v. 18 …the only begotten God, which is in the bosom of the Father…

So, many old manuscripts have that. But that’s not what I want to emphasis here, but I did want you to know that.

v. 18 …He has declared Him.

WHAT? “He has declared Him.“ What do you mean, “He has declared Him”? The Greek is ‘to unfold,‘ like the turning of a page, to unfold knowledge from a book or something... opening the scroll, your learn more and more.

John 1:18 No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten Son (God), which is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared (or revealed) Him.

How can you say that? The Bible is full of revelations of God the Father, talking to humanity, right? It’s full of it? Nope. “No man has heard God’s voice at any time.“ Jesus Christ said so on two, three, four occasions. Well, who did they hear? Who is the spokesman for God? Jesus Christ. I know that Mr Buzzard has a big problem with the first couple of verses.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Or the proper order is, “and God was the Word.”

John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

Now he (Buzzard) says, ‘that was the Father.’ Well you know what we did with the (previous emailer‘s) twenty four hours? “Are there not twelve hours in (24 hours)…” (John 11:9). Doesn’t make sense, does it?

John 1:1  In the beginning was God the Father, and God the Father was with God the Father, and God the Father was God the Father.
v. 2  God the Father was in the beginning with God the Father.

Does that really make sense? Can you really say “the Word” is God the Father? Does that make any sense at all? Who is the Word of God? [Attendees: Jesus Christ] What’s the proof of that? Do we have proofs that He is the Word of God? Is there some place where we are told that Jesus Christ is the Word of God? [Attendees: John 1:14]

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,

Yes, that does prove that whatever this Word was, was made flesh and dwelt among us. But they still argue that it is not Jesus Christ, because it says the Word was God and they say Jesus Christ is not God. But we do have a verse that plainly tells us that Jesus Christ is the Word of God.

Revelation 19:11-12 And I saw heaven opened (this is the coming of Christ), and behold a white horse; and He that sat upon Him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns; and He had a name written, that no man knew, but He Himself.

This is speaking of Jesus Christ. This is the coming of Christ and “His eyes were as a flame of fire,” and so on.

v. 13 And He was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and His name is called The Word of God.

Here is the name of Jesus Christ, “The Word of God.” He is the Logos, the spokesman… that’s what “logos” means, the Word, the spoken word, the spokesman.

So let’s be scriptural, when it said, “and God said, let there be light,” who did the saying?  Nobody’s ever heard God’s voice. This is the voice of Jesus. Jesus was more than your Rock Opera ‘Jesus Christ Superstar.’ He’s not just a man. You’ll see later just how important it is that He was a lot more than ‘just a man.’

So He is the Word of God, it says so. His name is “the Word of God,” that’s Jesus Christ’s name, the Word of God. He was “WITH” God. You can’t be with yourself, you’ve got to be with something, somebody else.

John 6:46 Not that any man has seen the Father, save He which is of God, He has seen the Father.

Who’s that? Jesus Christ, He has seen the Father... When He said to pray “our Father, which art IN HEAVEN” (Matthew 6:9).

Where was Jesus Christ born? [On the earth, Bethlehem.] He was born on the earth. After He was crucified, and the girls were holding Him by His feet and wouldn’t let Him go.

John 20:17  Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father:

He said don’t touch Me, don’t keep holding onto Me, I have not yet gone to My Father in heaven. So, between the time He was born ‘just a man’ and died and was resurrected as ‘just a man,’ when did He see the Father? If Jesus Christ first came into existence as a human being, born in Bethlehem… He never was in heaven. He says no man has ever seen the Father, save He which is of God, He has seen the Father, He is speaking of Himself. In other words Christ saw the Father…

John 5:19 …but what He sees the Father do: for what things soever He does, these also does the Son likewise.

When did He see the Father do anything? He was never in heaven supposedly, if He was ‘just a man.’

I can take each one of these and work up an hour’s study on each one of these little ideas and no matter where it goes, it’s going to prove what Jesus Christ is. It is never going to come out as, ‘ooops, that’s right, He was just a man.’ It won’t.

So many times we are told that people heard the voice of God… God spoke to them. He talked to Adam and Eve, but never was it God the Father. Why? Nobody ever heard His voice, Jesus Christ said so. The Bible is not a liar, Jesus Christ is not a liar. What are you going to do with those verses? Jesus Christ said, “no man has ever heard the Father’s voice.” They then turn around and say, ‘here’s twenty five times where they heard the Father’s voice.’ That doesn’t fit. Something is wrong.

[Attendee: Regarding the voice to Moses, wasn‘t that a voice?] Yes, sometimes there was a voice, but not every time, I mean, when Jesus Christ was baptized, it says, “a voice came out of heaven, this is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” (Matt. 3:17). It doesn’t say it was God the Father, it was “a voice” verifying the feelings of the Father.

[Attendee: It tells you right there in Exodus 3:2 it was an angel that spoke to Moses at the time of the burning bush.] Surely. [It also says in Acts 7:35, 38, 53; that it was an angel that spoke to Moses, not God.] There may have well been an angel, but that doesn’t mean that there wasn’t God involved. [But it says there specifically that an angel spoke to Moses.] Right, and angels came to visit Abraham too. But that doesn’t mean that God never spoke to Abraham. I mean you can have something that is in addition. I know that angels have spoken in behalf of God, but you can’t say every time.

Genesis 3:10 And he said, I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
v. 11 And He said, Who told thee that you was naked?

Is this God speaking or an angel? Because, if God the Father does speak to people, then we have hundreds and thousands of false statements in the scripture… because we’ve got many, many statements talking about what God said and so on.

[Attendee: comment?] That’s a good point Art, you bring up that angels were doing some of this passing on of information and the Ten Commandments and so on. But it tells us that. It tells us that they were angels and we know that. But it doesn’t tell us every single time that every time God speaks. In the Old Testament it’s not God at all, it’s an angel, just pretending to be God.

[attendee: You said this morning that this is a principle that’s laid down here in Exodus 2 and 3 and if you learn that principle. Then you can understand that God, when He gave the commandments, did it through an angel.  It tells you that right here in Acts chapter 7 in the testimony of Stephen…] But can you say it was all done through an angel and through an angel only, that God had nothing to do with it. That God didn’t speak a word, it was all done through an angel. Some portion of it was done through angels for sure.
Let’s look at this… where Moses wanted to see God.

Exodus 33:12 And Moses said unto the LORD, See, You say unto me, Bring up this people: and You have not let me know whom You will send with me. Yet You have said, I know you by name, and you have also found grace in My sight.

Did Moses say, did I find grace in this angel’s eyes? Is this an angel?

v.14 And He said, My presence shall go with thee, and I will give thee rest.

v. 17  And the LORD (Is this an angel? Then Lord, Jehovah, Yhovah) said unto Moses, I will do this thing also that you have spoken: for you have found grace in My sight, and I know you by name.
v. 18  And he said, I beseech You, show me Your glory.
v. 19  And He said, I will make all My goodness pass before you, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before you; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy.
v. 20  And He said, you canst not see My face: for there shall no man see Me, and live.
v. 21  And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by Me, and you shalt stand upon a rock:
v. 22  And it shall come to pass, while My glory passes by, that I will put you in a cleft of the rock, and will cover you with My hand while I pass by:
v. 23  And I will take away Mine hand, and you shalt see My back parts: but My face shall not be seen.

Are we talking about an angel? That if he saw the backside of an angel or the face of an angel that it would kill him? I don’t think so. This is the “Lord.” But it’s NOT God the Father.

[Attendee: To back that up, 1 Corinthians 15:47, the first man is of the earth, made of dust, the second man is the Lord from heaven.] Yeah, another good point. Where is He from? From heaven. I meditated on that for a good while… I’ve spent a couple of hundred hours on this already.

« Last Edit: May 29, 2016, 01:30:09 AM by Kat »


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Re: Mobile Conference 2009
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2010, 03:18:45 PM »
Audio 6

                                                               IS JESUS GOD?

Okay let’s say that my parents are German, they move to America, then married and conceive me and I’m born. Can I legitimately say, I am from Germany? No I can’t, I can say my parents are from Germany, but I can not say I am from Germany, I was not born in Germany.

1Cor 15:47  The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

So If Jesus Christ was never from heaven or in heaven, how can He be “from heaven”? That’s a good point and I’ve thought about that. There’s more to that and we will caught up with that a little later. I’m not done with this subject yet, I will probably write a paper on it, because I consider it fairly important.

Concordant Literal Version
Php 2:6 Who, being inherently in the form of God, (What, “Inherently in the form of God”?) deems it not pillaging to be equal with God,
v. 7 nevertheless empties Himself, taking the form of a slave, coming to be in the likeness of humanity,

American Standard Version
Php 2:7  but emptied Himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men;

Notice it, this is not a normal person being born. He is first “emptied” of something He had. You can’t empty something that isn’t something. You can’t empty a bucket that has nothing in it. He “emptied Himself,” God did not force it upon Him. Again, I said all thorough the Scriptures that you are going to see He volunteered. He “emptied Himself” and was “made Him for a little while (Thirty three years) lower than the angels,” (Heb. 2:7 NASB) so that He can die.

If He were just a man, just a normal human being, then He didn’t have to be made anything, He would naturally die or if they stuck a spear in His side, for sure He would die. But no, Jesus had to be “made” that low or He couldn’t die.

So this idea that God couldn’t die… no, not unless some drastic change takes place in Him. He had to “empty Himself” of those powers that would never allow Him to die. He could voluntarily give them up “for a little while.”

Php 2:7 But, Himself, emptied, taking, a servant’s form, coming to be, in men’s likeness;

Young’s Literal Translation
Php 2:7  but did empty Himself, the form of a servant having taken, in the likeness of men having been made,

Emphatic Diaglott
Php 2:7 but divested Himself of it, and taking a Bondman’s form, having been made in the likeness of men.

People who are born aren’t “divested,” they aren’t “emptied,” they aren’t “made” and they don’t do anything by themselves.

“Nevertheless empties Himself”…“but emptied Himself”…“But, Himself, emptied”…“but did empty Himself”…“but divested Himself”…

What unborn baby ever did anything by himself? Do you see what I’m saying? I don’t care where you take this, anywhere you go Jesus Christ is not ‘just a man.’ He’s not. Let’s continue.

Emphatic Diaglott - “but divested Himself.” Divested means to strip, as of clothing; to deprive, as of rights; to free of; to rid of; to divest - deprive of a TITLE, or right.

Did Christ have a title? He gave it up for a little while, so He could die, that’s part of this emptying, this divesting… to “deprive of a title or a right.”

If Jesus were ‘just a man’ why did He need to be conceived by the Holy Spirit of God at all? Why couldn’t He be JUST a normal Jewish boy born to a normal Jewish mother AND FATHER? Why? Why did He need to be more than ‘just a man?’ Why did He need to be a SPECIAL DIVINE MAN?

If Jesus Christ were nothing but a human being He did not have to be conceived by God, He did not have to empty Himself, He did not have to be made lower than an angel so He could die. All men die. Just pay attention to the words.

Mr. Buzzard has a footnote on page 191 where he makes a comment from a dictionary about Revelation 3:14 where it says Jesus Christ is “the beginning of the creation of God.” Concordant translats it “God's Creative Original." Now that is a profound Scripture, I mean that’s one of those really profound Scripture. That is not a false translation or anything.

Rev 3:14 …write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Jesus Christ the “beginning of the creation of God.” He is “the beginning.” 

Col 1:16  for in Him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through Him, and unto Him;

He is the beginning and the beginner, all things were created through Him. Now that deserves about ten pages. This book of his that I have is about 460 pages, it could have been written in about 60-70 pages. I mean talk about repeating, repeating and repeating, it’s so redundant that it’s pitiful. But he spends paragraphs, dozens and dozens of pages on redundant things and some of them are not even Scriptural.

Now we have a Scripture that talks about Jesus Christ being the original beginning creation of God and do you know how he takes care of that? Do you think he spends five or ten pages explaining how that doesn’t mean that He was in the beginning even? He’s the beginning of God’s creation, He’s the beginner of God’s creation… but He says He wasn’t in the beginning. Do you know how he takes care of that? Was there ten pages of explanation going through that, showing us that this has nothing to do with Christ being anything more than just a human being… I’ll tell you how he takes care of that, in a footnote. My mind doesn’t work like everybody else’s mind. He takes care of that and wipes it out in a FOOTNOTE!

He talks about a quote here in Revelation 3:14 then he’s got an asterisk, so you look down below and he’s got ‘Dictionary of Apostolic Church’ and that says something to the effect; that some think that this is speaking that Christ was the original creation of His Father, that’s it! One of the most profound Scriptures in the whole Bible and he wipes it out with a footnote! Now I get angry when I see stuff like that.

Now I’ve just read you all these translations where Christ “emptied Himself,” “divested Himself,” He was “made lower.” He came down… from up there, He came down, He was from heaven. The second Adam is from heaven (1Cor. 15:47).

Php 2:7 nevertheless empties Himself, taking the form of a slave, coming to be in the likeness of humanity (CLV)

He emptied Himself and there is a Scripture that says that in Philippians and how does he handle that? Does he spend ten or twenty pages on such an incredible verse as that and try to explain that away? How do you think he handles that very profound and marvelous Scripture, how does he handle it? With ANOTHER FOOTNOTE!

So the fact that Jesus Christ was the beginning of God’s creation, emptied Himself to become lower than an angel so that He could die. ALL that and that deserves is two lousy footnotes? Now I’m not angry with Mr. Buzzard, but his theology stinks.

John 17:1  These words spake Jesus, and lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You:
v. 2  As You have given Him power over all flesh, that He should give eternal (eonian) life to as many as You have given Him.
v. 3  And this is life eternal (eonian), that they might know You the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.
v. 4  I have glorified You on the earth: I have finished the work which You gave Me to do.
v. 5  And now, O Father, glorify You Me with Your own self with the glory which I HAD with You before the world was.

Now you know what Mr. Buzzard does with that… ‘Oh that just means that God had it in His mind to glorify His Son thousands of years later when He did come.’ He says, ‘he had it in His mind to do that.’ Why would you say that? That’s not what the Scriptures says, so why would you say that? Because they despises these Scriptures, because these Scriptures do not agree with their heresy. There is no bad translation there. Read a hundred translations, they all say the same thing, “glorify You Me with the glory which I had with You before the world was.”

“Father, I will that they also, whom You have given Me, be with Me where I am; that they may behold My glory, which You have given Me: for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.” (John 17:24) Oh but only in His minds eye, because He didn’t even exist, He loved Him, but He didn’t even exist. Do you see the problems you run into when you refuse to believe the word of God. You can’t do anything with that verse. He (Jesus) said, Lord now I have done the work, I did what You sent Me here to do. He commissioned Jesus Christ to go to earth and become the Savior of the world… He did it. Now He said it is finished, I’ve done it, now please give Me back the glory I had with You from the beginning of the world. You try to put that is with, He never had any glory with God before the foundation of the earth, He never had any, it’s a lie.

What makes this book so bad is he’s really doing two things; 1) he is exposing this unscriptural heresy of the trinity and that true, it needs to be exposed. But along with it he is, 2) demeaning our own Savior and that’s not to be done.

John 6:37  All that the Father gives Me shall come to Me; and him that comes to Me I will in no wise cast out.
v. 38  For I came down from heaven, not to do Mine own will, but the will of Him that sent Me.

Now what are you going to do with that Scripture? Jesus Christ said, “I came down from heaven.” How can you come down from heaven if you were never there?

Me and my friend had a little tat, because I said something like Christ was going to go ‘back’ to heaven and he rightly said, the Bible doesn’t say went back. There is no word ‘back,’ it doesn’t say He went back. No but it doesn’t have to say ‘back.’ There are other ways of saying ‘going back’ without using the word back. Let me give you an example.

I went to Pennsylvania for my fiftieth class reunion a month ago and then I returned home. Now if that is all of the information that I gave you, you would still know or you should know that I went back, even though I didn’t say it, right? How would you know I went back? How would you know that wasn’t the first time I went to Pennsylvania? Well it’s for a class reunion, I would hardly graduate from high school in Ohio and go back to my reunion in Pennsylvania? So you don’t have to say you went back, but the truth of the matter is that I did go back, you see? But just because you don’t say you ‘went back’ is not proof that that’s not where I came from.  I could say I went to Pennsylvania and that’s true, that is a true statement. But that doesn’t contradict the fact that I also came from Pennsylvania and therefore when I went to Pennsylvania I was going ‘back’ to Pennsylvania. Okay keep that in mind.

So Jesus Christ said, “I came down from heaven, to do the will of Him that sent Me,” and there’s another phrase He “sent Me,” from where? From heaven!

Now we are going to get more specific, so we won’t quabble about these words ‘went back.’

John 6:48  I am that bread of life.

So He’s talking about He’s the “bread of life,” then He says, “Doth this offend you?” (verse 61).

John 6:51  I am the living bread which came down from heaven:

How many of those verses do you need before you will believe them. Where did Jesus Christ come from? Heaven! Where between His human birth and His crucifixion did He ever go to heaven and come back? Where? “I am the living bread which came DOWN FROM HEAVEN.”

John 6:57  As the living Father has sent Me, and I live by the Father: so he that eats Me, even he shall live by Me.
V. 58  This is that bread which came down from heaven:

John 6:62  What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where He was before?

He came from heaven, you can’t get around it. Jesus Christ came from heaven and He came emptied and was impregnated in a woman through the Spirit of God and took on flesh and was lowered to that, below an angel even. So that He could die. This is NOT your everyday Jewish boy. “I am the living bread which came down from heaven:” I mean how many Scriptures do you want until you believe it?

John 3:13  And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

How clear is that? Where did He come from? “Down from heaven… even the Son of man.” You see this phrase “even the Son of man which is in heaven” it is not in the manuscripts. That’s a slur that came from a margin somewhere, that is not in the Greek manuscript. It should read;

John 3:13  And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of man.

So where did Christ come from? Heaven. Is He going ‘back’ to heaven? Yes He is, He is going back to heaven.

Emphatic Diaglott
John 3:13  And no man has ascended into heaven, except the Son of man who descended from heaven.

See they didn’t put that ‘which is in heaven,’ that is not part of the Scriptures.

You can’t come up with some stupid theory about how it was the ‘sperm’ of God that came down from heaven. That’s not Jesus, sperm is not Jesus, besides there is not any suggestion that Jesus Christ was conceived by a spiritual sperm. He was miraculously conceived, it doesn’t say it had to be a sperm. I mean God could have conceived Christ as a child any way He wanted to in the mother’s womb, but it did not necessarily have to be a sperm, I mean He’s already a miracle for crying out loud. But they say, ‘yea but it can only be done through a physical sperm.’ I don’t think so.

John 3:31  He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaks of the earth: He that cometh from heaven is above all.

How many Scriptures do you want? Who came down from heaven? Jesus did.

John 3:32  And what He hath seen and heard, that He testifies…

John 3:34  For He whom God hath sent speaks the words of God: for God gives not the Spirit by measure unto Him.

I mean you can not even fathom how much you can learn from God’s Word if you’ll do one thing… pay attention to all the words. I mean you heard these Scriptures all your life. I like this one.

John 14:1  Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in Me.
v. 2  In My Father's house are many mansions (offices or abodes): if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
v. 3  And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto Myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

What can we learn form there? Is there anything there? “Come again.” Did you catch that? “I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again.” The Greek word is palin - through the idea of oscillatory repetition (happening again and again and again), (adverbially) anew, that is, (of place) back, (of time) once more, again.
That’s what that word ‘again’ means in the Greek. You can’t come back to the earth from heaven ‘again,’ unless you did it before. Am I going too fast? It’s possible for Christ to go to heaven and return, but it’s not possible for Him to say I’m going to do it again, if He never came from heaven in the first place.

Now the word ‘palin’ appears in the Greek Scriptures 147 times. I checked all 147 verses and with no exceptions palin is always translated ‘again.’ Once more, a repetition.

                                                                     I AM

John 8:58  Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Exo 3:14  And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and He said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

Moses said, who shall I say sent me, “I AM.” Now in the King James they have “I am He,” what kind of nonsense is that? Before Abraham was “I am He?” I mean He what, what do you mean “I am He”?

When they went out into the garden after the ‘last supper’ they were looking for Jesus and Jesus saw this band of merry men… with their clubs and stuff.

Luke 22:52 Then Jesus said to the chief priests, captains of the temple, and the elders who had come to Him, "Have you come out, as against a robber, with swords and clubs?

Then He asked them, “Whom seek ye? And they said, Jesus of Nazareth” and He said, I’m Jesus of Nazareth and then they all fell down like dead. What?

John 18:4  Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon Him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye?
v. 5  They answered Him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus said unto them, I am He. And Judas also, which betrayed Him, stood with them.
v. 6  As soon then as He had said unto them, I am He, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

Think about it! Pay attention to all the words. If they were looking for Jesus and He said “I am Him” or “I am He,” why would they fall down like they were dead and terrified? That’s who they were looking for, He said ‘yea that’s Me’ and then they said ,oh my gosh and they fall over like dead? These aren’t believers that were falling over in reverence and worship, these were people that came out to kill Him! Do you think that’s what He said? ‘That’s Me’? Why did they fall over like they were dead? He must have said that with some kind of earth shaking authority, He didn’t just say ‘that’s Me’ or “I am Him” or “I am He.” He said “I AM!” They knew what that meant, they read their Scriptures. They didn’t need any other reason, that’s why they fell down like dead men.

                                                        PRAY FOR UNDERSTANDING

I pray for God to give me understanding. When I read the Bible or I’m studying somebody’s book or article, I’m not doing it for my health. I want to know! Since I’m a teacher, I have to know how to teach. Now I can’t teach something if I don’t believe it or I don’t know what I’m talking about. I want to know. I beg God to show me, show me what this means. If this man is right, show me, let me see it and if he’s not let me see that. I want to know the truth.

I don’t have any ego to protect. I was suppose to be dead a year ago of cancer. What kind of ego do you think I’m trying to protect. What, I’ve got some great ego I’m trying to protect? I’m a dead man… I want the truth. I’m not afraid to admit it if I’m wrong. Why would I be afraid to admit it if I’m wrong? I’ve been wrong about lots of things. But since I’ve been writing for Bible Truths I’ve not made any big mistakes that I know of, none. No big mistakes, no giants doctrinal flaws, not that I know of, I don‘t know of any. Little things, but nothing really big. So I have no axe to grind.

                                                  EMPITIED HIMSELF SO HE COULD DIE

But I’m at the place where I firmly believe Jesus Christ was not just a man or an ordinary man or totally a physical biological man with nothing divine about Him whatsoever? I don’t believe that.

I believe in my heart of hearts that our Creator Himself died for us. Not God the Father, our Creator. Think about that tonight.

If you were God and you made humanity or you made it through somebody else, like His Son Jesus and He wants the people to understand the severity of sin and evil. So He makes a regulation that if you sin the penalty for that is death, okay. Well now He’s going to make a way that, although we still die, we will not die forever. We will be resurrected back to life and eventually all humanity will be changed into spirit, with spiritual bodies and live in harmony and order for all eternity.

So now you need a way to justify the fact that you are going to have mercy on this humanity and let them live after all, but not without a great sacrifice. So does He say, ‘let me see how will I do this, I’m not going to get My hands dirty, Jesus, guess what… You are the honored chosen one, I’m going to kill you for the people… what do You think of that? You do it.’ Think about it. It doesn’t quite seem fair some how, does it? Couldn’t God have come up with some better plan, where maybe nobody had to die, you know?

But it was determined Jesus Christ was going to die for His creation. But it certainly was not forced upon Him, I’ve told you time and again He volunteered. He emptied Himself of His power and glory, divinity and majesty. He emptied Himself to be made for a little while, thirty three years, lower than an angel so He could die.

I believe that with the wisdom of Their minds, that there was no conceivable act that would prove to humanity, any possible greater love that God has for His creatures, then to die for them. He DIED for them!

Did He have to die? No. Well why did He die? Is there some demonic force out there, some Dark Vader that said, ‘well now some bodies got to die Lord, I want to see a sacrifice and I want to see some blood here.’ Who made that rule? God did. He makes the rules, He can break the rules. That’s the golden rule, him that’s got the gold makes the rules. God owns all the gold.

So there’s something special, what seems foolishness to the world… ‘you’re going to hang on a cross and that saves humanity, how so?’ Because He is the creator of humanity, He volunteered, He said I will die for My own creation. In that sense it was Christ’s creation, He created it.

It just doesn’t make any sense at all that some Jewish boy could grow up and become the Savior of the world and there is nothing special about Him, no. He’s just another man, then why is His life worth that of fifty billion other human beings? But, now the life of the Creator, now we are talking something, we’re talking heavy duty stuff here big time. I think if you meditate on that for some time like I have, you begin to realize just what an incredible sacrifice that was.

It didn’t have to be, it was a volunteered thing. Christ said, “Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.” (John 15:13). But that is usually under a situation where He has to lay down his life or his friend will die. Soldier will sometimes throw themselves on a hand grenade and let it blow up their own body. That happened just a few weeks ago, where a man jumped on a grenade and let it blow his guts out to save the men around him.

But with Jesus He didn’t have to die. I mean God can save humanity without anybody having to die on the cross to do it. Why did He do it? To show us how much He loves us! I mean when there is no real compunction that something needs to be done and you volunteer to do it, just because you want to prove to somebody your love… I mean that is pretty profound.

So this can not be accomplished with just some ordinary man. But He had to suffer like a man, so that nobody could ever say, ‘well yea God, You were born with a silver spoon in your mouth, you wouldn’t know a hard days work know how. You just say let it be and it is. I have to work my fingers off and sweat and break my finger nails and cut myself. What does God know about a hard days work? Nothing.’

I talked about that last year. This is an amazing thing that God did, I mean He had it all planned out. Imagine that, the greatest creation in the universe His only begotten Son and He’s going to sacrifice Him! It wasn’t a matter of, ‘you do it Lord, I don’t want to do it, you do it.’ Any parent knows that if their child is put in a situation where they are going to be hurt or tortured, the parent would much sooner trade places than to see that child tortured to die.

So you think that there was, you know, no skin off the Father’s nose, so to speak, over this? He emphasizes, His ONLY begotten Son. Notice He doesn’t say Mary’s only begotten Son… His! God said that Boy was His, that was His boy, He was special. He was God’s boy.

« Last Edit: May 29, 2016, 01:38:40 AM by Kat »


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Re: Mobile Conference 2009
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2010, 03:19:59 PM »
Audio 7

                                                              The God Family
                                                                  (Part 1)

I want to spend a little time on whether Jesus Christ is divine or not. Understand, when we talk about is Jesus divine or is Jesus God, we’re not talking, is He the eternal heavenly Father. We’re not saying that.

Now, there’s something you have to understand. Andrew Buzzard apparently (I’m not going to say he absolutely doesn’t), but apparently does not understand. The reason I can say that is I read certain statements that he makes over and over, regarding the fact that God is one. If Jesus can be called God, then we have two Gods. To him it’s very simple, God the Father is the one true God and if Jesus is God, then we’ve got two true Gods... the Bible says, “God is one.”

Now, that’s simple enough, right? But here is where you get into areas that require a little bit more than just the simplicity of a child, you know. Because that sounds good on the surface. Now if you don’t have a little bit of depth of understanding and wisdom that will throw you and you’ll say, ‘Yeah, that’s right.’  Now he makes a lot of good points about the trinity, in fact this book is called ‘Jesus was not a Trinitarian.’  Of course He wasn’t.

The trinity theory is that God is not just God the Father; God consists of God the Father, God the Holy Spirit, and God the Son. That, according to Christendom, is what God is.  So, they’re all God, separately and individually. You say, ‘how can you understand that?’ You really can’t. Well does the scripture teach that? Almost all theologians will flat out tell you, ‘No, the scriptures don’t teach that.’  Well, why do they teach it then? They say, ‘Well, you can deduce that.’  They deduce that that’s what it has to be. Then they give you an analogy that proves that it is possible. They say, ‘look at an egg, you have the shell, the yolk and the white… there you go, the trinity.’  Or water, ‘you have water, steam and ice… ha, the trinity.’

What do such arguments prove? It proves the stupidity of those that are trying to convince you of something. Now c’mon, but it has nothing to do with anything, that an egg has three components… that’s nonsense.

So, he rightly shows that nowhere is the Holy Spirit called a person. He takes great exception to this idea that God consists of three persons. He really berates that, that God is three persons, the Trinity teaching that God is three persons, one essence, three persons. Most of his proofs about the trinity are correct. There’s a problem though, when we wipes out the false teaching of the trinity, he also throws away the glory and dignity and divinity of Jesus Christ. That is not scriptural.

So, I am going to defend the divinity of Jesus Christ with the scriptures. If some of you say, ‘well, I don’t agree , I don’t believe that.‘ I know a lot of scriptures and unless you can explain every one of them away somehow, I’ll always have an issue with this.

First of all, if there are scriptures that indicate that Jesus is God and that Jesus lived with God before He ever came in human form… we have numbers of scriptures like that. Then that’s a positive on the side that Jesus did not come into existence as a human being through the birth by Mary, but that He was changed from something He was into humanity. So we have quite a number of scriptures that back that up. But do we have any scriptures that flat out tell us that Jesus Christ is not divine, never was divine, never will be divine? No.

Now we do have scriptures that say He’s a man. Of course He’s a man. God made Him a man “a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death” (Hebrews 2:9). Mr. Buzzard, who is the author, speaks about the ‘Shema.’ How many know what that is? The Shema is Deuteronomy 6:4, which says.

Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear (H8085 Gk. Shema), O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

That is a basic tenet of the Jewish religion. That the Lord is one, that God is one. One what? One God - one Lord - one.

The premise of Mr. Buzzard in this book is to show that God is one ‘person,’ not a multitude, not two, not a trinity, not three or four, but one person. So I am going to read a couple things to you, what he talks about.

Jesus Was Not A Trinitarian - by Anthony Buzzard

What did Jesus Christ teach? Did He teach the trinity or did He teach that God is one person? There is profound difference between a one-person God and three-person God. If God is one person God is a single divine person.

Comment from Ray: You understand the premise I’m making now? Based on the Shema, Deuteronomy 6:4.  God is one… one God… one Lord.

The Shema proclaims that God is one person, this really settles the whole issue we are discussing.

Comment from Ray: Do you understand? Are you following this? (He says) this settles the whole issue we are discussing… whether Jesus is God or whether He is divine.

Deut. 6:4 “Hear O Israel…”
The Shema (he says) proclaims that God is one person, that really settles the whole issue we are discussing.

(Half way down the page, he says) God is a single person…

(The next page) God is a single person…

(Through the pages of his book we find) He is a single person… The true God… He is a person… God is a single person…The Jews knew that God is a single person…  God is a single, undivided, divine person…  The one divine person who alone is God…. Is God speaking here, a person… According to the Bible, God is a single person… These oracles present God as a unitary person… No one could even imagine God to be more than one divine person… Christian theology does not believe God to be one person…

Comment from Ray: They believe He’s three persons.

The Jews in history believe in and worship God, the single person… God is a single divine person… The Bible reveals that God is presented as a single person… With all the characteristics of a person… The Father who is not another or different person… The New Testament confirms the unique status of God as one person… God is only one person… Our Lord is one, definitely one, since the Lord is a person… One person…

Comment from Ray: Bear with me, there is a reason for what I am doing, trust me. 

There is quite a difference, quite obviously, between God as a single person and as God as a what or what yet… In Scripture God is one person… Our Lord is a single Lord… One person… The faith of Judaism was always Unitarian belief in God as a single person… He is one individual person… They constantly say God is a single person… While Jesus speaks of God as a single person… God is one person…The One-person God of the Scriptures… For Jesus and the whole bible, God is a single divine person… Through the whole range of Scripture God is a single divine person…

Comment from Ray: Are you getting the point he is making? We can just stop there. Somebody tell me, what is the point? [Attendees answers: God is a person.]

He does admit here though that god is a title. The king of Israel had been called god (Psalms 45:6) and “this same title.” So I want you to remember that, that he concedes that god is a title.

Paul also said God is a person. God describes Himself as a single, undivided divine personality… Speaks of Himself of His own person… Even God Himself is said to be a person… Declaring to the Galatians, God is only one person… Being a single person… Clearly distinguished form the person of God… the person, God…When the masculine form of the one ‘eis’ is used, the meaning is one person… The New Testament speaks of God as one person… The sense in both halves of the sentence is one person… God is one person… In each case God is one person…

Comment from Ray: I’m only a third of the way through the book. So tell me again, what have you learned so far? [Attendees: God is one person.] How many of you now believe that God is one person? (Hands go up.) Wrong pale faces. Why am I the only one in here with a devious mind? 

Had I read that five or six times, I might have let it pass… or ten or fifteen. But when I read that about twenty times I started circling them, twenty five times, thirty times, thirty five times, forty times. I mean, a big red flag went up. Then I got to thinking about it. Because I was a little sucked in, I knew what he was saying. But I also know what Trinitarians believe when they say God is three persons - the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I know that, so it’s not as if I get all twitterpated or something. I mean I know what they’re saying and I can follow their reasoning or at least I try to and then at some point I’ll say, well no, that doesn’t work.
So like I said after about twenty, thirty, forty times, why would somebody mention that dozens and dozens and dozens of times? Why would somebody do that? I have never heard such redundancy in any book or article I have ever read in my life. What is he doing? [Attendee says, programming you.] Programming you, brainwashing you, setting you up. Every so often in there (I don’t want to read all those too) he interjects the shema Scripture “God is one.” God is one person.

Let me back up. I don’t want to go any further and I’ve only read up to page 265, so I have another 200 pages to go. Let’s go back and trust me, when I teach I use the scriptures. I do not come up with words and philosophies and stuff that are not in the scriptures. If you think I do, then you show me.

He says on page 27;
who then did Jesus think was God? Jesus Himself claimed in a conversation with the Jews, as we are going to see in detail, that He described the Jewish Unitarian Monotheistic Creed. The Shema, “Hear O Israel,” (Deut 6:4). The Shema proclaims that God is one person. That really settles it, the whole issue we are discussing here, that settles it.

Oh really? How many times did he tell us that God is a person? Dozens and dozens and dozens of times and he says, The Shema, “Hear O Israel,” (Deut 6:4). The Shema proclaims that God is one person. NO IT DOESN’T! I get a little vocal here, because I get aggravated with such stuff. The Bible does not proclaim God as one person, it does not. Nowhere! Although he states it over and over, page after page, sometimes five times on one page. Well then for Pete’s sake where does it say that? NOWHERE! 

He is so upset at the Trinitarians, because they call God three persons. But this man borrows their stupid philosophy. They call God a person and he turns around and takes what he berates them for and he calls God a person! Now, what’s wrong with that? [Attendees: God is not a person… God is not a man.] That’s right, God is not a man. God is not a person.
The Trinitarians he says say that God is an essence. Actually, I think that can be true. (Buzzard says) He’s not an essence, He’s not a what, He’s a person.

American Heritage College Dictionary--
Essence –  intrinsic or indispensable properties that characterize or identify something; the most important ingredient, the crucial element, the inherent unchanging nature of a thing.
What is God? [attendee: Spirit.] SPIRIT! What is the intrinsic, indispensable characteristic and most important ingredient crucial element of God… HIS ESSENCE! Now I don’t use that word, because I don’t want to be lumped in with Trinitarians. But quite frankly that is not so unscriptural as Mr. Buzzard would like to say. The essence of God is SPIRIT. That’s His essence, that’s what He is. The crucial thing about who and what God is, GOD IS SPIRIT. Nowhere does it say that God is a person.

Definitions: Person - a living human.

He says, it so bothers him that people (theologians) come up with words that are unscriptural and terms that are not Biblical and they twist things with words that don’t fit and so on. But here on page 191, he says, “the immortal God of Israel was never crucified; the theology of the Bible knows nothing of a mortal supreme God.”
So he admits nowhere in the Bible is God a mortal. So if Christ was God and He died, He was mortal… it doesn’t fit. Nowhere is God called mortal, okay keep that in mind.

Wycliffe’s Bible Dictionary--
Not only isn’t God called a person, the Hebrew language had no word denoting the concept of personality, which constitutes and characterizes a person.

They couldn’t have called God a person if they wanted to. They have no such word. Who are you going to believe? I just showed you, right?

Not only isn’t God called a person and he says God is called a person and he says the Shema says God is a single person. No it doesn’t, he lies and he knows, because he looked up that verse (Deuteronomy 6:4) and it does not say that God is a person. It does not! Yet he says dozens and dozens of times God is a person.

« Last Edit: May 29, 2016, 01:44:30 AM by Kat »


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Re: Mobile Conference 2009
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2010, 03:20:44 PM »

A person is a living HUMAN. God is not human! He’s not a person. The Hebrews didn’t even have a word for person. I looked up person in my E-Sword and there’s only half a dozen times that you find the word person (it’s always in italics), it was added by the translators. There’s no word in the Hebrew that should be translated Person.

This is from the Internet. 
Person:- an individual human being, especially distinguished from a thing or lower animal; an individual man, woman or child; a living human body.

American Heritage College Dictionary--
Person - a living human.

Person - a person, a human.

Webster’s New Twentieth Century Dictionary Unabridged--
Person - 1. An individual human being. 2. A living human body. 3. In theology (Ray’s comment: oh yea in pagan trinitariansim, which he berates as being totally false) one of the three modes of being God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. ( Comment: But we know that’s not Scriptural, although they put that in there.  Because they know the church teaches that nonsense and calls God “three persons of the trinity.) 4. A human being; 5. in grammar, first second and third person (you, me, I, they, them and so on. That hasn’t anything to do with God.).

Word Origin and History--
Person: Persona - human being. Personae - a human being whether a man a woman or a child, a human being as distinguished from an animal or a thing. The actual self or individual personality of a human being; the body (external aspect); in law, a person is a human being.
Synonyms - person, individual, personage, are terms applied to human beings.

Now can we understand that? Is that too difficult to know what a person is? The Bible has no such word, nowhere does it call God a person. I don’t see any definition where God is called a person. Yet this man mentions it over and over, dozens and dozens and dozens of times. It’s a lie.

Another definition (I don’t know what encyclopedia, can’t find the other list), of a person is - mortal. Isn’t that interesting. Somehow people will corner themselves and expose their utter hypocrisy.

(He says) “God, the immortal God of Israel was never crucified. The theology of the Bible knows nothing of a mortal supreme being.” What does he call God? Over and over and over again, dozens and dozens of times what does he call Him? A mortal! A person is a mortal human being. I rest my case.

His arguments against Christ are baloney. I told you yesterday, how he takes one of the most important verses in all scripture, that Jesus Christ emptied Himself (you can look up what that word “emptied” means), I read it to you out of different translations, He divested Himself of His powers and glory. One definition was to give up a title, right? How does he handle that? Does he discuss that in detail, so that we can really see that he can show us that it doesn’t mean what it says? He wipes that out with a doggone footnote! Like ‘that will take care of it. I’ll just put a little blurb here, you know that some people say that He emptied Himself of some previous glories or something.’ He has a little asterisk and he’s got footnotes, that’s taken from some Christian Encyclopedia or whatever.

                                                   CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN

[1] That Jesus was God’s “creative original” is wiped out… with a footnote (p. 191, Dictionary of Apostolic Church).
[2] That Jesus “emptied Himself” from a previous life is wiped out with a footnote (p. 187).

If Jesus was just another little Jewish boy, and there was nothing “divine” about Him, why was He not just born naturally like every other little Jewish boy? Or why not supernaturally by using the Virgin Mary? Why did He need to be “conceived” (impregnated) - given the first ingredient of LIFE by the Holy Spirit of God? Why? After all, “He’s just a man.” Would just an ordinary, natural born Jewish boy somehow not be qualified to be the flawless, perfect, sinless, Saviour of the world? Why not?

Does Jesus have to be 100% human OR 100% God - one or the other? Or was He 100% human AND 100% God - both at the same time? No!

Jesus was not 100% human nor 100% God. JESUS WAS TOTALLY UNIQUE. He was a divine being in the family of God, Who emptied Himself (Phil. 2:7) of His powerful Godly honors and dignities and title. Yet He retained some glory and honor (Heb. 2:9) when He was MADE (for a little while) lower than the angels for the suffering of death. But He was not 100% God, in that He had to ask His Father…

John 17:5  And now, O Father, glorify Thou Me with Thine own self with the glory which I had with Thee before the world was.


Mat 28:18  And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto Me in heaven and in earth.

Made Himself…
Emptied Himself…
Took upon Him…
Was made…

If Jesus never existed before He was fully born into humanity through Mary, how pray tell could He have “…made Himself… emptied Himself… took upon Him… and was made…” (Heb. 2:9)?

If Jesus had no prior existence, how could He possible ask His Father to give back to Him “…the glory which I HAD WITH THEE BEFORE the world was…” (John 17:5)?

If Jesus had no prior existence how could He possibly say, “…I came down from heaven…” (John 6:38) if He never was ever in heaven before His human birth?

If Jesus had no prior existence how could He state: “What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend UP where He was BEFORE“ (John 6:62)?

If Jesus was never in heaven before His human birth how could He dogmatically state: “I am the living bread which came DOWN FROM HEAVEN…” (John 6:51)?

If Jesus did not have a prior existence how could He state in John 3:13:
“And no one, hath ascended into heaven, save He that, out of heaven, descended, - The Son of Man.” (Rotherham) 

“And no one has ascended into heaven, except the Son of man Who descended FROM HEAVEN.” (Emphatic Diaglott)

The spiritual “sprem” did not descend from heaven, but rather “The SON OF MAN descended from heaven.” Do you believe these Scriptures or do tou dispise these Scriptures?

John 3:31  He that cometh from above is above all: He that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: He that cometh from heaven is above all.
v. 32  And what He hath seen and heard, that He testifieth; and no man receiveth His testimony.

“Seen and heard…” from where and from whom? From God His Father in heaven.

“GOD IS SPIRIT” (John 4:24)
“I AND MY FATHER ARE ONE” - ONE WHAT? One GOD or One SPIRIT? Excuse me!! ‘GOD IS SPIRIT” (John 4:24)!!
How many “Gods” are there? ONE
How many Gods does Jesus AND His Father make? ONE
When God is “ALL in All” how many Gods will there be? ONE

Jesus came from HEAVEN (John 6:35, 51, 57, 62 and He is “coming AGAIN from heaven.” (John 14:3)

How does John 14:3 conclusively prove that Jesus WAS IN HEAVEN sometime before He was crucified, resurrected, and went to heaven? If I say I am going to Moscow and will then RETURN in two weeks, does that prove that I was in Moscow at least one other time? NO. Neither did Jesus on this occasion say that He would “go and prepare a place for the disciples and RETURN.” Did He? No He didn’t. Here is what He said:

John 14:3 AndG2532 ifG1437 I goG4198 andG2532 prepareG2090 a placeG5117 for you,G5213 I will comeG2064 again,G3825 andG2532 receiveG3880 youG5209 untoG4314 myself;G1683 thatG2443 whereG3699 IG1473 am,G1510 there yeG5210 may beG5600 also.G2532

G3825 palin - through the idea of oscillatory repetition; (adverbially) anew, that is, (of place) back, (of time) once more, again.

It is possible to go to heaven and to “return from heaven” for the first time. But it is NOT possible to COME AGAIN from heaven for the first time, if one had never been there before!! See Luke 10:35.

John 16:28  I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father. (KJV)

John 4:3  He left Judea, and departed again (palin) into Galilee.
John 4:54 This is again (palin) the second miracle that Jesus did, when he was come out of Judea into Galilee.

The Greek word ‘palin’ always, always means a second or more times to do something once more or again, no exception. 147 times out 147 times palin is translated “AGAIN.” What was or happened before, is again, or happening again.

“I AM” in John 8:58 & John 18: 5-6 VS “I AM in…

John 8:58 JesusG2424 saidG2036 unto them,G846 Verily,G281 verily,G281 I sayG3004 unto you,G5213 BeforeG4250 AbrahamG11 was,G1096 IG1473 am.G1510

John 18:6 As soon then asG5613 G3767 he had saidG2036 unto them,G846 IG1473 amG1510 he (’he’ is not in the Greek), they wentG565 backward,G1519 G3694 andG2532 fellG4098 to the ground.G5476

Why in the world would they “fall to the ground” if all Jesus said was ‘yes, I’m Jesus’?

Exo 3:14 And GodH430 saidH559 untoH413 Moses,H4872 I AMH1961 THATH834 (who, what that  Which, When) I AM:H1961 and he said,H559 ThusH3541 shalt thou sayH559 unto the childrenH1121 of Israel,H3478 I AMH1961 hath sentH7971 me untoH413 you.

“I AM” in Ex. 3:14 is from the Hebrew #1961 hayah and means: “to exist, that is, be or become, come to pass (always emphatic).” The very same Greek #1510 eimi, i-me’ - I exist (used only when emphatic): - am, have been, X it is I, was.

“And God SAID unto Moses…” I thought Jesus told us that “NO MAN has ever seen God or heard His voice.” (John 1:18 & 5:37) Who ya gonna believe - the heresy of men or the Word of God?

[attendee: Did he say anything about Genesis, the “us.”] I think he did, but very little. But here’s what he does say though over and over and over. He’s says there are like 2000, 3000 personal pronouns, a personal pronoun always talks in reference to one single solitary person. Well, no it doesn’t talk about God as a person and it doesn’t always talk about God with a personal pronoun like ye or me or my.

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness…
That’s in the Hebrew and it wasn’t added by the translators, “OUR image, after OUR likeness.”

Genesis 1:27 So God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them.

Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become like (Me?).

Is that what it says? Who’s speaking? The LORD God. What did He say? Behold, the man is become as one of US…

Who is the LORD God according to this verse? “One of US.” One of US, that’s not a singular pronoun. “Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness… he has become like one of US.” That’s the LORD God.

You say, ‘yea but it doesn’t use that throughout the whole…“ So what! I mean there are hundreds of subjects in the Bible that are not mentioned in every book in the Bible twenty five times. How many times must the Bible say something until it’s true? How many witnesses do we need on important subjects? Two or three.

« Last Edit: May 29, 2016, 01:48:24 AM by Kat »


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Re: Mobile Conference 2009
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2010, 03:21:24 PM »
Audio 8

                                                                The God Family
                                                                    (Part 2)

Look at this, he’s quoting from a scholar, Raymond Brown, page 111; Brown knows there are five New Testament passages in which Jesus may be identified as God. Oh, only five? Well, you can’t believe those five passages, why? Because it’s ONLY five. You need two or three witnesses for something to be true… and we only have five. This sounds like this crazy guy who sent me this email. Jesus said are there not twelve hours in a (what he said was a) twenty four hours day?’ Stupid nonsense.

(Continuing with Anthony Buzzard’s book.)
On the grounds that the use of God - for Jesus, is rare in the New Testament and therefore always to be considered improbable.

Comment: Why is it improbable that Jesus could bear the title God? Why? Because…
The occasions that say He is God, linked to being God or given the powers of divinity are rare.

Comment: Is there something wrong with me? Ten carat diamonds are rare. Well are there any? Does the fact that they are rare mean that there aren’t any? Do we need to be suspicious of anybody who says he has a diamond? Because why… they’re rare.

Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they become fools,

Concordant Version - “Alleging themselves to be wise, they are made stupid,”

He concludes that…

There are only three texts where Jesus is clearly called God.

Comment: Well, we surely should throw those three out… there are only three that are absolutely clear stating that Jesus is God… don’t want to believe that. Because there are only three? You need TWO witnesses for something to be true. But we’ve got three, then throw that out. They are Hebrews 1: 8-9 ; John 1:1 and John 20:28.

Hebrews 1:8-9 But unto the Son He saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of Thy kingdom. Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even Thy God, hath anointed Thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto Him, My Lord and my God.

Then on page 73, he says…

The same word ‘God’ is used for Jesus on two occasions. Five passages are found where Jesus is called God. The use of God, for Jesus, is rare.

Comment: We read that earlier, three texts clearly call Jesus God. He talks about theological literature and so on.

From Solid Exegetical and Lexical Facts and Historical Examination of the Bible, the best that apologetics can do is assemble a few isolated verses, mostly from John’s gospel and a handful from Paul that would say that Christ is God. Little attention is paid for a plain affirmation for the plain Unitarian statements of Jesus recorded by John.

Comment: My question is, how many are a handful? We only have “a handful…” and he says “a few isolated verses… 

Just for fun, I looked up ‘isolate.‘ It means - to set apart, cut off, place in quarantine. …like a disease? Is that maybe what they are doing with those “isolated verses” regarding Christ’s divinity? Quarantining them like they’re some kind of disease? Notice, they’re mostly from John’s gospel and a handful from Paul. Well we sure can’t trust John and Paul… not those heretics. But you see the derogatory insinuations? There’s “a few isolated…” and there’s only “a handful…“ and they come from John and Paul.

Is that bad? Does that mean we don’t trust them? Does that mean that they’re not scripture? A few isolated verses… a handful of verses… a dozen verses…three verses… That’s not enough to establish that any of those verses are true?

In one place he says, this one scholar shows that Jesus is called God and he says…

Certainly He’s referred to as God in John 1:1; John 20:28; Romans 9:5; Titus 2:13;
Hebrews 1:8 and 1 John 5:20.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 20:28  And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Rom 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom is the Christ—according to the flesh—he who is over all, God, blessed unto the ages. Amen. (Rotherham)

Titus 2:13-14 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ…

Heb 1:8 But unto the Son He saith, Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever: a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of thy kingdom.

1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know Him that is true, and we are in Him that is true, even in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Well, what are we going to do with those verses? That’s only six references. Surely you can’t believe those references. This is where “He is certainly referred to as God” in those six different verses. But he doesn’t have them all.

Last night I showed you, we were talking about the “Almighty” and by his on admission he says “Jesus, not God, is the alpha and omega.” Remember he said that? Yesterday I said that. He concedes that is true, that God is not called the alpha and omega, but Jesus. That refers to Jesus he says, okay. 

Revelation 1:7 Behold, He cometh with clouds (that‘s Jesus); and every eye shall see Him, and they also which pierced Him (Now they didn’t pierce the father, did they? They pierced Jesus) and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him. Even so, Amen.
v. 8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Mr. Buzzard says, this refers to Jesus only, not to God. That Jesus is the Alpha and Omega, “I am the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the last, says the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.” Who is called Almighty, the Supreme sovereignty of the universe? JESUS!

I told you about, He is the Word of God. 

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God and God was the Word.

John 1:14  And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,

Revelation 19:13 …and His name is called The Word of God.

That’s Jesus!

Just a couple of other points, because when somebody tries to show me something and it doesn’t jibe with all the truths of God that I know, I check it out.

John 8:58  Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am (then Buzzard puts in brackets) [the Messiah]. 

Before Abraham came (he wasn’t saying) I am the Messiah, but He said “I AM.” So let’s not put words in His mouth that weren’t there. 

Before Abraham came into being or as it reads equally well in the Greek, before Abraham comes to be. If so translated, the Greek is ambiguous. Jesus makes the claim to be prior to Abraham in the resurrection. If Jesus means before Abraham’s birth, if He means that (in other words… if the Bible means what it says… or if Jesus meant what He says, oh God forbid. If Jesus meant before Abraham and that’s what it meant before his birth that He is the Messiah)[/I], this would be very similar to the text in Revelation 13: 8, that Jesus was crucified before the foundation of the world, that is God’s foreordained purpose.

So He says, we’ve got a scripture to back that up. But how He could say “I was before Abraham,” is in the plan of God… in God’s mind… in His plan or purpose, I (Jesus) was there. Not that He was really there, only in the mind of God was He there. 

Now he has a Scripture to prove that in the book of Revelation. I’ve known this for years, I don’t think I’ve ever mentioned it, but I have know it for years, because I had reason to study that years ago.
Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship Him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Well now either that shows that in some way or shape or form, before the world was made, in God’s mind or whatever, Christ was already slain. Before He was ever brought into existence, right? Either that or maybe this is not translated properly. Let’s take a look at that concept.

The World English Bible:
Revelation 13:8 And all who dwell on the earth will worship Him, every one whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been killed.

Huh, do you get that? It was “written from the foundation of the world.”
Darby’s 1890 Translation:
Revelation 13:8 All that dwell in the earth shall do homage, everyone whose name had not been written from the founding of the world in the book of life of the slain Lambkin.

The Living Bible:
Revelation 13:8 they are the ones whose names were not written in the book of life before the world was made, the book that belongs to the Lamb who was slaughtered.

Do you think that none of these translators knew what they were doing? Do you think that all these are phoney translations, that have not a clue as to what they were doing?

American Standard Version:
Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship Him, everyone whose name had not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb that had been slain.

Not that had been slain from the foundation of the world, “written… in the book” before the foundation of the world.

The New American Bible:
Version Revelation 13:8 And all the inhabitants of the earth will worship It, all whose names had not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life which belongs to the Lamb who was slain.

Emphatic Diaglott:
Revelation 13:8 And all who dwell on the earth shall worship Him, whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the scroll of the life of that Lamb who was killed.

How many more do you need until you begin to think, ‘there might be something wrong with that King James translation?’ How much do you want to bet, that Mr. Buzzard looked that up in other translations? To see if perhaps he could get something stronger and found exactly what I found and said [sound of tearing out paper] I’m not going to use that?

The New Revised Standard Version:
Revelation 13:8 Everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of the life of the Lamb, that was slaughtered.

Moffat Translation: 
Revelation 13:8 All dwellers on earth will be worshippers; everyone whose name was not written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb.

Here Moffat says, the words of the lamb slain are probably a gloss, a marginal insertion from Revelation 21:27. The “book of life” elsewhere appears without any such addition.

English Standard Version:
Rev 13:8  and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.

I quit there. I’ll tell you why I quit there. I somehow lost the site where it had hundreds of translations and that’s as far as I got. I couldn’t find the site back, just lost it. But anyway, I got that from hundreds of translations.

So, how much credence do we give that? “We know He was slain from the foundation of the world (but He wasn’t slain until 33AD) and what proves it? Revelation 13:8.“ Ooops! Not quite.

The main problem of his whole premise is, him trying to persuade people that God is one single individual unified person. So I asked myself, why is he telling that over and over… dozens and dozens... Don’t you agree, that’s a little bit of overkill? To make that statement five times on one page, isn’t that a little overkill? What do you think the answer to that is, why would he do that? How, if he shows that God is one person, how does it do that? You have to be as wise as a serpent, harmless as a dove when you study the scriptures, when somebody is trying to direct your mind.

Okay here’s what it is. A person, only one ‘person’ can be one person. There it is! He concedes a couple of things in his book. He admits that the word ‘god’ is a title. I’ve been saying that for many years. I wrote my trinity paper about 8 or 9 years ago and in there I made the statement ‘God is nowhere called a person.’ I was well aware of that when I saw this, but I knew what he was trying to say, emphasizing ‘one.’ But then when I heard it ten times, twenty times, thirty times, forty. No, no this man has got an agenda.

So I knew that God wasn’t a person, nowhere is He called a person, because I was writing that to show that the trinity is false too. He concedes that God is ‘a title.’ When he emphasizes that God is a single person and then he says two persons. He says that Jesus Christ is a person too and two persons can’t be ONE person. Does that makes sense? Children can understand that. Can two persons be one person? Can one crawl inside of the other and now there’s two persons in one person’s body? No. No it can’t.

So, it sounds like a pretty good argument. God is one person, Jesus is a person… Jesus can’t be God. Why?Because He’s already one person and two persons can’t be one person. In other words, he needs that word person. He’s got to have it. He’s got to have that word ‘person’ in his argument. To give it strength, he hypnotizes the people with it over and over and over.

Was it Hitler (Goebbels) that said, ‘if you tell a lie big enough, loud enough, often enough, people begin to believe it.’ Same principle! Dozens and dozens of times… he even says, Deuteronomy 6:4 the shema, says God is one person. It says no such thing! Neither does any other scripture of the Bible.

A person is a human being, I have 25 definitions from 25 different sources, a human being, a man or woman or a child as distinguished from an animal or any other thing, including the deity or God. That’s what a person is, a mortal is one of the definitions, a human, a mortal. 

He says, ‘where do we ever read in the Bible that God is mortal?’ We don’t, but we read it in this book (of his). Dozens and dozens of times he calls God a mortal, because that’s what a person is, a mortal human being.
So he concedes that God is a title, but he says ‘over the centuries because God refers to Jesus Christ’s Father in so many hundreds and thousands of settings and books, in sermons… That the word God has become synonymous with the name of Jesus’ Father.’

It’s a title, but because it has been used so often with reference to God, it is now His name. Well he doesn’t say it is, he says it is accepted or something, as His name. What do we learn from that?  He admits (like I said for many years) GOD is not the name of Jesus’ Father. How many times have you heard me say that? God is not the personal name of Jesus’ Father, it’s a title. In another place, he says it’s a title.

I’ll grant him that two persons can’t be one person. But God isn’t a person and He isn’t called a person. It is blasphemy to call God mortal or a human being. He does it dozens and dozens of times. Why doesn’t he say, ‘stick with the shema, the Lord your God is one Lord.’ One person? No. One LORD. Why doesn’t he stay with that?  Because it doesn’t defend his heresy. He cannot prove his heresy if he sticks with the scriptures. He’s got to come up with something that is unscriptural, he’s got to make God a person. Because two individuals cannot become one individual or one person.
Can more than one individual be God? Yes, because it’s a title. Paul said, “there are many gods” (1 Corinthians 8:5 ). The same word ‘theos’ applied to what we consider the one and only God. But there are many gods.

In the beginning chapters (of the Bible) you know when something starts out and it’s the very first time it’s mentioned and you’ve got to think that this is setting a precedent here for the first time. He says “let Us make man in our image, after Our likeness” (Genesis 1:26) and “the man is become as one of Us.” ‘One’ of Us. Now we have the third verse of the Bible, “And God said, Let there be light and there was light.”
We have no direct quotation where God says He is speaking to somebody in His own voice, none. So who said “let there be light?” The Spokesman, the Word of God.

So, God is a title, it’s a title, Lord is a title. Jesus said you should love “the Lord your God” (Matthew 22:37). But there are many lords too.

[Attendee: Doesn’t Elohim have plurality in itself?] Does it denote it? [Plurality?] It is plural, Elohim. El is God. When it speaks about God where it doesn’t mention the Lord God, sometimes it’s in the singular, El. But in the opening verses, it is plural, Elohim.

So we have “God…” “God…” “God said…” “God created…” and so on and so forth. Then in chapter two verse four.
Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that Jehovah God made the earth and the heavens,

It never mentioned “Jehovah” before that. That’s the first time, now we have Jehovah introduced.

So God is a term, a title. I can’t find it in the footnotes where he (Buzzard) mentioned that ‘no two people can be one person.‘ Therefore he has got to make God out to be a person. You can’t have two that are God or then you have two Gods. Is that true? No, that’s not true.

I lost my boy Blake, but he was a Smith, Blake was a Smith, my son. My name is Ray and I’m a Smith, Ray Smith. My boy was Blake Smith. So if somebody were to say, ‘that boy over there, Blake, is he a Smith? Yeah, that’s Ray’s boy, he’s a Smith.’ Is that hard to understand? 

So the idea that anything having to do with God has got to be singular, ‘because there’s only one God,’ is nonsense.

We have a service to protect the United States called the military. We have an army. How many armies do we have? Well, there are many divisions of armies. But let’s pick a smaller country that just has one army. Can more than one person be a member of an army? Okay, what about a band?

Is God a family? I know one scripture in Ephesians says “household of God” in the King James. But the Concordant and others have “the family of God.”

Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

Paul is speaking to the Gentiles here.  Now that word “household” can be translated “family.” The Concordant I know for sure translates it “family.” So we are going to be of the household or the family of God. God is a family. We can’t be of God’s family unless God is a family. Can more than one individual be part of God’s family? YES. Is Jesus Christ a part of the family of God? YES, He’s God’s Son. Will we be a part of that family? YES.

So show me where God can only be one person. Show me. Show me a Scripture, not a bunch of double-talking fraudulent nonsense. Show me a Scripture where God is called an individual person and that only one person can be one person, therefore no one can be God, but the Father.

God is a family, He is producing children, sons and daughters. We’re going to be a part of the household or the family of God. God and family are synonymous in that sense. It’s a title for the Supreme Being and His closest associates, which is God’s family, Father, sons, daughters.

But he (Buzzard) can’t let you know that more than one individual can be in the family of God.  He must establish that God is a single person, so that no one would be so stupid as to argue that two persons can be one person.  But the Bible doesn’t say that God is a person. He’s not a human, He’s not a mortal, He’s not a man. The Father is not a man. Masculine, but not a man.

« Last Edit: May 29, 2016, 01:53:28 AM by Kat »


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Re: Mobile Conference 2009
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2010, 03:22:11 PM »
Audio 9

                                                 WILL YOU INHERIT GOD’S KINGDOM

1John 5:20  And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know Him that is true, and we are in Him that is true, even in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Is that talking about God the Father anywhere in there? It’s talking about Jesus who is in us, right? This is the “true God.”

‘Yeah, but that’s only one verse.’ Well here’s another one and here’s a few more… “here’s a couple of isolated ones…” here’s a whole handful… ‘Yeah, but you only find that in 1John 1:1…’ It’s nonsense, right? If it says it… twice or five times or twelve times, you’d better start believing it.

Here’s another point… I mean you can’t say the scripture proves this in the way that I’m saying, but nonetheless… Let’s look at this, who or what is God? 

If I say to you, ‘the Creator of the universe,’ who do you think of? [Attendee: Jesus] Now, go with me on this, you’d think of ‘God.’ 

If I say, ‘the possessor of all power in heaven and in earth,’ who would that be? [God.]

If I said, ‘this individual has the power to give humanity everlasting or incorruptible, immortal life,’ who would be able to do that? [God.]

‘Who’s going to judge the world?’ [God.] All right.

So, the creator of the world… the judge of the world… the power of the universe… the ability to impart immortal life… those are all attributes of God. Am I right?  It’s someone who possesses the ability to impart immortal life… create the universe… and possess all the power in heaven and earth that there is… who would that be? GOD. Who do we read has all that? Jesus Christ!

How can you possess all power in heaven and in earth, be the judge of the world and the creator of the universe and not be able to have the title ‘God?’ The gyrations that these people go through to try and disprove what the scriptures say.  It takes a miracle to be that stubborn and close-minded.  It takes a miracle.

Colossians 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father…

Now, we know who that is, that’s Jesus’ Father.

v. 12 ...which has made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
v. 13 Who has delivered us from the power of darkness, and has translated us into the kingdom of His dear Son:
v. 14 In whom (who is the “whom”? Jesus) we have redemption through His blood (the son’s, Jesus’), even the forgiveness of sins:
v. 15 Who is the image of the invisible God…
Who is the image of the invisible God? [Jesus.] Jesus.

v. 15 …the Firstborn of every creature:

Who is that? [Jesus.] 

v. 16  For by Him were all things created…

Who is that? [Jesus.] 

v. 16 …that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him…
Some say, ‘oh it means in Him, or something else.’ You are not going to change the meaning of this whole chapter by changing the words “by Him” to in Him. That is not going to change the whole meaning of this chapter. It will not. That is nonsense [They tried to.]. They tried, yeah. Let’s say “all things were created through or in Him.”

v. 16 …and for Him:
v. 17  And He is before all things, and by Him all things consist.
v. 18 And He is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things He might have the pre-eminence.
v. 19 For it pleased the Father that in Him…

Jesus… the Creator of the invisible and the visible, and the principalities and the powers, and by which everything consists and holds together… that’s Jesus.

Now how can this ‘person,’ Jesus (who is not a man, we could call Him a person, see, but He’s not a man, because He lowered Himself to that.), how could, let’s say this ‘individual’ (I want to get away from that ‘person.’ You sure can’t apply it to God the Father.), how can He be the creator, the sustainer and the Savior of the universe and the human race and be anything less than God?

I’m telling you we demean and blaspheme Jesus Christ when we do like the Rock Opera ‘Jesus Christ Superstar’ shall I bring Him down, should I fornicate with Him and prove that He’s just a man. That’s blasphemy, those movies you know, ‘The Passion of Christ.’ They make Him out to be a homosexual… just evil stuff.

Jesus Christ has a name that is above every name. God (Jesus) did not consider it robbery or pillaging to be equal to God. Why? Because He possesses everything that God has. It’s not like, well yeah God gave Him some power and He said, okay I’ll let you pass on a little immortal life here and yeah You can create some stuff too.

So, let’s think for a moment on who or what is God the Father, okay. He’s the brains behind everything.  I’m I right?  He’s the Supreme Deity of the universe, God the Father. He’s all powerful, all knowing, all wise, omnipotent, right?  All loving, all caring, all those things. Is there anything else that you can think of that God is? You might say, ‘well, He’s a father and Jesus isn’t a father.‘ Oh yeah? Read Isaiah.

Isa 64:8  But now, O LORD, You art our Father; we are the clay, and You our potter; and we all are the work of Your hand.
Now listen to these verses and for crying out loud, believe it.

John 16:13 Howbeit when He, the Spirit of truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth: for He shall not speak of Himself; but whatsoever He shall hear, that shall He speak: and He will show you things to come.
v. 14 He shall glorify Me: for He shall receive of Mine, and shall show it unto you.

Now listen…..

v. 15 ALL THINGS that the Father has are Mine: therefore said I, that He shall take of Mine, and shall show it unto you.

Who is the paraklete, the Spirit, the Comforter that’s coming? Jesus. Jesus is the paraklete (you have proof of that back in 1 John 2:1 “…we have an advocate (paraklete) with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:”), when Jesus Christ possesses. 

He said to Philip, let Me show you the Father, if you have seen ME you have seen the Father.

John 14:9 Jesus said unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast you not known Me, Philip? he that hath seen Me hath seen the Father; and how say you then, show us the Father?

Everything that the Father is and has and possesses is Mine. What does that make Him? ‘Just a man, that we can bring him down?’ I mean come on, we have to show some reverence here. Jesus Christ is the creator of the universe… He is the creator of the human race… He is the Savior of the world… He is the one that is going to be giving immortal life… He possesses all power in heaven and earth.  That’s Jesus, that’s our Lord and Savior.

I could go into that aspect of, there’s only one Lord and Savior, back in Isaiah.
Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside Me there is no Savior.

Yeah and who’s that? JESUS.

God is a Savior, but so is Jesus. How is He a Savior? It’s one of those many things that God possesses that He gave to the Son. Everything that God has He gave to the Son. That’s how Jesus is in the Father and the Father is in Him and they are ONE. One person? No. One what? One God? YES!

Mr. Buzzard says, “they’re one unified spirit; they’re one in spirit.” Excuse me, what is God? SPIRIT. I and My Father are one spirit? “God IS spirit” (John 4:24). I and My Father are ONE GOD. Can two individuals be one individual? No. Can two individuals be one God? Yes. Yes, they can. He (Buzzard) has not one scripture that proves anything to the contrary, not one.

I could go on, I mean I have a lot of stuff. I may write this up in an article, if I get time and I’ll cover some more stuff. There’s more stuff in here and I can shoot it down, trust me. I can and I do it with the Scriptures, not with clever arguments, WITH the Scriptures.

We talked about maybe a dozen places where He said, I came out from the Father… I came from heaven… the only one that is going to heaven is the one who came down from heaven. Jesus Christ was in heaven before He was born to the virgin Mary and we have many scriptures that say that.

John 6:33  For the bread of God is He which cometh down from heaven…

John 6:51  I am the living bread which came down from heaven:

John 6:58  This is that bread which came down from heaven:

John 6:62  What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where He was before?

And He is “coming AGAIN” from heaven.

John 14:2 …I go to prepare a place for you.
v. 3  And if I go…

He hadn’t gone yet, had He. He was still in human form, they hadn’t killed Him yet. But He said, “if I go…”

v. 3 …I will come again…

You can’t “come again” if you never came at all. Now this is just a simple meaning of words and language.

                                                 Will you inherit the kingdom of God?

(Notes) Are you sometimes overwhelmed by all the seemingly negative and what seem as almost impossible statements in the Scriptures regarding the requirements for entering God’s Kingdom? How about this statement: “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect” (Matthew 5:48).

Luke 9:62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.
Whoa, I wonder if I’ve done that?’

Mat 10:22  And ye shall be hated of all men for My name's sake: but he that endures to the end shall be saved.

Oh I don’t know, can I endure to the end?  How much is that? How much will that involve?

Luke 14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after Me, cannot be My disciple.

And remember the warning to the Seven Churches. It is only “…to him that OVERCOMES…” Seven times we are told to overcome. That entrance into the Kingdom is promised, (Rev. 2 & 3).

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
v. 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
v. 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put Him to an open shame.

Acts 14:22 …that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Maybe some of you think you’re not going through much tribulation and wonder, ‘gosh I wonder if God’s even concerned, He’s not putting me through much tribulation.’

1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Do you obey the gospel of God? How do you obey it? A subject for a lecture.

Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leads unto life, and few there be that find it.

Matthew 7:19 Every tree that brings not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from Me, you workers of iniquity.

Matthew 10:38 And he that takes not his cross, and follows after Me, is not worthy of Me.

Matthew 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

Matthew 12:37 For by thy words thou shall be justified, and by thy words thou shall be condemned.

Matthew 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

This is getting pretty tough, isn’t it?

Revelation 3:16 So then because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.

2 Peter 3:17 You therefore, beloved, seeing you know these things before, beware lest you also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

2 Peter 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

2 Peter 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

James 4:17 Therefore to him that knows to do good, and does it not, to him it is sin.

Ever been guilty of that? You know to do good, but you don’t do it, that’s a sin. The wages of sin? [Death.]

Luke 12:47 And that servant, which knew his Lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to His will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walks about, seeking whom he may devour:

1 Corinthians 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinks he stands take heed lest he fall.

1 Corinthians 11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

Now we even have to figure out who are the heretics among us.

Mat 18:3  And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Luke 14:33  So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsakes not all that he hath, he cannot be My disciple.

Had enough? Do you ever read your Bible and say, ‘this is a pretty hard row to hoe.’

« Last Edit: May 29, 2016, 01:58:54 AM by Kat »


  • Guest
Re: Mobile Conference 2009
« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2010, 03:23:00 PM »

[Attendee: I notice what you said “heresies among ye.”] He’s talking to the Corinthians there. He said there are splits, divisions among you and He says it’s not good.

Well, there are a lot of scriptures saying, if you don’t do this, if you don’t do it right, if you don’t keep on doing, if you don’t overcome, if you don’t endure, you’re not fit for the kingdom of God.  Except you forsake husband, wife, family (Luke 14:26 ), everything you have and follow Me, you cannot be My disciple… that’s tough.

How many are sometimes bothered by such Scriptures and think that maybe we just won’t make it? We just won’t be acceptable to God?  We fold every time a severe trial comes our way? You want to live godly, but you just can’t conquer some sins and then all these many Scriptures condemn you. Am I talking to anyone in this room?

It’s not a very peaceful or rewarding life living like this with so many uncertainties, is it? Never ever being quite certain as to where you stand with God. We see too many areas where we know we fall short and then we condemn ourselves.  

It’s not very soothing to live a life like that, living in kind of fear and trepidation as to whether or not you are ever going to make it into this kingdom of God.
Maybe when He says “few,” what He really means is hardly any.

Well I want you all to leave this conference with a confidence from God that will enable you to live in peace with himself/herself. A feeling like you learned some stuff, some important stuff and I want you to leave the confidence with, that if God has begun a work in you, He will finish it. To be assured that you will be in the Kingdom of God and receive a reward. God did not call us to a life of uncertainty, doubt and frustration. Ninety-nine percent of those in Christendom ‘know’ for a fact that when they die they are going to heaven, when in reality and according to the Scriptures they know NO SUCH THING. Is your assurance that you will be in the Kingdom of God built on any more solid ground than these?  Even if you fall, God is able to make you stand up.  

So I gave you kind of the negative side. But there is a real positive side, isn’t there? The positive side is this; yes, you can’t fall away... you can’t look back… you can’t refuse to continue on… you can’t refuse to overcome the trials that are put before you. But if God is truly calling you, He won’t let you! That’s the good news. But even if He lets you fall, it will teach you a lesson, that we don’t have the strength to rely on ourselves.  

You know, the longer you live a godly life and you overcome your pulls of the flesh and you try to be more loving and kind and all the things that Jesus is…  If you’re not careful, you get kind of spiritually cocky and think you’re a pretty good person and ‘I’ve got this thing pretty much in tow.’  Just about then, you could fall flat on your face.  That’s why it says, beware when you think you stand lest you fall (1Cor. 10:12).

                                                 What Paul has to say about QUALIFYING:

Paul said I bring anything that is sinful or wrong under “subjection” in my body, unless I speak to you on how to do all this stuff and “I myself should be a castaway.”

1 Corinthians 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

So yes, he was aware of that and he kept that prod on himself, but was he negative about it? Did he said, ‘Boy, I hope I make it. But He put me through some stuff. I don’t know if I’ll make it to the end. I don’t know if I can endure all this stuff God put me through. I got this demon smacking me up side the head (spiritually speaking), every day of my life. I’m in hunger and thirst, nakedness and problems, troubles, threats of robbers and killers and shipwrecked, in the swamp…  I don’t know if I can make it.’ No!

He says, I KNOW there’s a wreath of righteousness waiting for me (2 Timothy 4:08). “I KNOW.”  So what do we learn from that? We can KNOW!

Paul talks about qualifying. It doesn’t use ‘qualifying’ but one time in the King James, it uses the word ‘approved.’
2 Tim. 2:15 Study to show yourself approved unto God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. (KJV)

The Concordant uses the word “qualified,” that’s a little closer to the Greek.

2 Tim. 2:15 Endeavor to present yourself to God qualified, an unashamed worker, correctly cutting the word of truth. (CLV)

1 Corinthians 11:19 …that those also who are qualified may become apparent among you.

James 1:12 happy is the man that is enduring trial: for becoming qualified, he will be obtaining the wreath of life, which the Lord promises those loving Him.

[attendee: do trials and tribulations help you to become qualified?] Why, yeah, but it all has to do with attitude. There are old people who are supposed to be mellow, on their deathbeds who curse God.

You know that poem…
Rage, rage, against the dying of the light
Do not enter softly into that sweet night
Rage, rage against the dying of the light

In other words, don’t let God take your life without putting up a fight.  

                                         THE KEY TO ACCOMPLISHING MISSION IMPOSSIBLE:

Jesus told the disciples, when He talked about the rich man… “Peter said, who then can be saved?”

Matthew 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

Peter said, but what about us… we have forsaken homes, families and livelihoods.

v. 28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Or in another parable, over ten cities or five cities or two cities.

v. 29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for My name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

But, we have to ask ourselves, have we forsaken all those things? We have the sure promise, but have we forsaken or are we willing to forsake all those things?
Write down three things that you have done or are doing that should qualify you to be in God’s kingdom.  Things that you have done or are now doing that you would consider some kind of a qualification that you will be in God’s kingdom.  

How are you to know whether you are doing all required to enter God’s Kingdom?  Just what is it that you have sacrificed so that God will take you into His Kingdom?  What?  Now if I ask you to come up one by one, would you read that off to us.

[Attendees: I didn’t write nothing down]. Well, you’ve got a long way to go.  Well, that’s a tough one, isn’t it?

I’m sure some of you wrote down things like; you love God, you try to do unto others what’s always right, you thank God and appreciate everything you have in this life and those are all admirable and those would be to your credit. That’s on your credit side. Now Jesus Christ said;

Mark 9:23 Jesus said unto him, If you can believe, all things are possible to him that believes.

You have to believe. Jesus Christ said;

Pro 23:7  For as he thinks in his heart, so is he:

So what is it that you think about most of the time? Because that’s what you are.
If you think about materialism, pretty girls or power, fame or fortune then that’s what you are. That’s not what the Bible says is good.

1 Timothy 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

There’s kind of the ideal. “Charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned.“ Loving people, so that you want to give and share and you want the best for them. Like on one occasion, Paul said, counting those surrounding you as superior to yourself.  And having a good conscience.

I kind of have a custom at the end of every conference session, I tell everybody have a clean conscience. Whatever you do today, tomorrow or until we come back and meet again, don’t let anything pollute or pervert your conscience. You can’t live a good life - a godly life - a faithful life if you have a guilty conscience. It just ain’t worth it.

You know, I used to have my pet sins of youth. You say, ‘I just can’t help it, you know.’  So you commit these sins and then you feel guilty. I got tired of feeling guilty… it ain’t worth it. There’s no sin or pleasure that you can lust after that’s worth a guilty conscience. It just ain’t worth it.

How many times have you done something and you say, ‘I’d give anything to take it back, so I wouldn’t have this heaviness weighing on me that I did this thing. I wish I could take it back.’  Well, you can’t take it back. You can’t unring a bell.  But you can stop ringing the bell, you see.

I get a lot of emails and I really sympathize and empathize with the people. They say, ‘Ray I can’t stop watching pornography.’ Or ‘I married a woman, but I think I’m a homosexual.‘ I get so many pathetic emails like that, ‘what can I do?’ I say, well probably just feel dirty about it, until you get so sick of it that you’d sooner have a clean conscience than satisfy that stupid lust.

I don’t commit a lot of sins, because I’m too greedy, I want a clean conscience.
Boy I tell you, I’m emphasizing this for you. HAVE A CLEAN CONSCIENCE! Don’t say anything, don’t do anything, don’t go anywhere, don’t think anything that’s going to make you feel bad or guilty about what you said or did or where you went or whatever.

I used to worry that people would find out what I did or where I went or what I said. Boy that was horrible to think that some of my friends would find out what I am really like sometimes. But I’ll tell you it’s a great feeling to know that although I am a sinner and I’m weak and have a lot of shortcomings, that for years and years now I haven’t done anything really that I am so ashamed of that I would just die if you all found out about it. I’ve done some things I’m ashamed of, but I’m not so ashamed that I want to die. Because all of you would probably say, I had similar things myself.

But what a great feeling to know that you don’t have to cover up or keep making up lies of somewhere you were or somewhere you went or something you said or did. To know that I haven’t done anything like that for years and I don’t need to worry that somebody will say, ‘Mrs. Smith, do you know where I saw Ray last week?’ I don’t worry about that stuff. Why  Because I don’t go anywhere that I wouldn’t tell my wife. That’s why and that’s a nice thing. It’s a nice thing to wake up every morning and not have to cover your tracks or lie or wonder how you‘re going to get away with the next sin without anybody knowing. Just get rid of it.

You might say, ‘I tried and I can’t.’ When you get sick and tired of it enough, you will, God will come to your rescue. God will give you victory over your sins, eventually. Just keep begging Him.

2Tim 2:22  Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

Have you fled all your youthful lusts?  Do you follow “righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart?” Are you becoming PERFECT as your heavenly Father is perfect?

Is there ANYTHING that is more important for you to know right now sitting here in this room at this conference? We all want God’s approval.  We all want to hear God say: “WELL DONE.”

Rom 14:17  For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
v. 18  For he that in these things serves Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
v. 19  Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.

How well do you read and study God Word?

2 Timothy 2:15 Study (that means put forth effort, to be prompt, to be earnest, to be diligent, to endeavor to study, to labor) to show yourself approved unto God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Therefore, we should be doing right, not just to avoid wrath or to receive a reward, but rather because doing good to others IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

Read the entire chapter of Matthew 25. You will see what Jesus says, He’s going to separate the sheep from the goats, the called from the chosen and some of you are going to say, ‘wait a minute, when did we ever not visit You in prison or when did we not…’

Matthew 25:45 Then shall He answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as you did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to Me.

And likewise with the good things. The Golden Rule is a great place to start your Christian walk.

Matt 7:12  Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them:
Luke 6:31  And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

A conference like this is a great place to start a new beginning. So that you can say next week, next year… when I left that Bible conference in Mobile, I made some changes in my life and I haven’t been the same since. I feel better about what God’s doing in my life now. I don’t have a guilty conscience any more. I’m not perfect, but I try to be. I work hard at doing what’s right. There’s more satisfaction in that than in any sinful pleasure you could ever conceive of.

« Last Edit: March 09, 2010, 07:02:59 PM by Kat »


  • Guest
Re: Mobile Conference 2009
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2010, 03:25:08 PM »
Audio 10

                                                         QUALIFYING FOR RULER-SHIP
                                                 WITH NO LEADERSHIP, MONEY OR TALENTS

I have several titles that I’m doing here and I said yesterday that I could take almost all of these eight or nine lectures that I have and I could switch all the titles around, doesn’t matter, it’s all the same thing. My message is one, I have one message. Even though I talk about different aspects of different things, it’s all one message.  It’s all about the one God, the unified God. Jesus and His Father are unified. Their teaching, their instruction, their example and so on. That’s what it’s all about. We’re just approaching it from different perspectives.

This one is entitled Qualifying for Ruler-ship with no leadership or no money or no talents. I know a lot of people fit in that category. People say, ‘oh Mr. Smith, you teach and preach and you’ve got this site and you give Bible studies and you will probably be over 125 cities. I can’t do all that, I don’t have any talents… oh woe is me.’

1 Corinthians 1:26-29 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world (comment: that’s me) to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things (comment: that’s me) of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world (comment: that’s me), and things which are despised (comment: yeah and do they ever), hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not (comment: yeah that’s me, I’m a nobody), to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in His presence.

You say yep that’s me all right, don’t see how I’m going to rule over five cities, or whatever. But it says…

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcomes, and keeps My works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

You say, ‘how am I going to do all that? I have no education… I don’t have any money… I don’t have any place to entertain people… I don’t have a car to visit the sick, I’m sick myself. I’m old, I just learned these truths a year ago, I was already 75 or 80, what can I do? I’m an old man… I’m an old woman, how am I going to qualify for this, to rule the world… to rule the nations… to judge angels? How am I going to do that, come on.’

Well, how is he (she) going to do that? I’m here to tell you, whether you believe it or not, it’s possible to develop talents, abilities and character without having those qualities and talents inherently within you. They can be developed without natural abilities, without leadership, without education, without money, etc. But they can be developed!

Here’s how and why they can be developed. I don’t care if you’re a paraplegic on your back in bed, if that’s how you live, you can do this. Here’s why. Because of two principles.

1.)  Proverbs 23:7--
(KJV)  For as he (or she) thinks in his (or her) heart, so is he (she):
(ASV)  For as he thinketh within himself, so is he:
(CLV)  For as one who calculates within his soul, so is he;
(Rotherham)  For, just as he hath thought in his own mind, so, he is:

And the second principle is this.
2.)  Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

On those two principles, you can be flat on your back a paraplegic and you can develop character traits, virtues, fruits of the spirit, wisdom and knowledge so that you can rule nations. (Notes) Likewise, one can meditate (think) and what he thinks then becomes what he IS. Not having money, education, talents, or possessions is no excuse for not being able to produce the kind of character and leadership necessary to “have power over the nation.”

It is in SPIRIT that we accomplish the things of the spirit:

No matter what your condition is, you can keep the law of God. Why? Because it is spiritual.  It is in SPIRIT that we accomplish the things of the spirit:
We can pray in the spirit:

Ephesians 6:18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit…

Anybody can do that, “Praying always.”  I pray always, that is continuously. I don’t think; oops, I thought of something I got to pray to God about and I got to find a room or a closet.  Oh shoot, I’m in the car, I’ll pull off to the side of the road or I’ll use a public rest room, because I got to go and pray. I pray wherever I am!  

I told you how I found my house, driving down the street. I was the only one in the car and I said, God if you want me to move to Mobile, find me a decent house. It was about a four second prayer. Within minutes, minutes, I had me a house!

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance (self control): against such there is no law.

Is there any one of those that you need an education to acquire? Is there any one of those that you need money to acquire? Is there any one of those that you need special talents or an education, where you have to go someplace different to acquire it? No.

The mind, “as you think…”

Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

It’s in the heart - in the mind - in the spirit.

Philippians 3:3 For we are the circumcision, (comment: how so?) which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

It’s what’s inside that counts!

I enjoy and appreciate nice things. I tell one on my wife… sometimes there’ll be something laying around and I’ll pick it up and my wife will say, ‘just leave it or whatever, nobody’s coming.’ I’ll say, I’m not worried about that. It’s not somebody else I’m worried about, it’s me, I don’t like that laying there. I’m picking that up for me, because I don’t want this junk laying around. We are admonished…

Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

                                                   WHAT DO YOU THINK ALL DAY LONG?

So you become what you think about all day. If you think about God and His ways and His law, you can accomplish things, you can build things and you can acquire fruits of the spirit and so on. Because the law is spiritual.

Philippians 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true…

You know I just pray all the time that God will show me the truth and that what I teach will be the truth. You know we have opened each day (with prayer), but I already prayed before I got here… prayed on the way over…. prayed last night… prayed when I was putting the notes together. But we pray as kind of a public type thing, a corporate prayer I guess and maybe for your benefit.  

But that’s not the first time I asked God to show me some truth to give you. When I read books like this, I don’t assume I have all understanding. So if I’m going to waste hundreds of hours studying the subject then show me, show me the truth. I’m open to the truth God. I don’t want to protect some pet philosophy of mine, I want to know the truth, show me.
Philippians 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true (we want to stick with the truth), whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, THINK ON THESE THINGS.
v. 9 Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, DO: and the God of peace shall be with you.

So, when Paul tells me that Jesus Christ created everything, visible and the invisible, I think on those things and I believe them and I do them and I teach them.  I don’t say, oh that’s just John and Paul talking about that nonsense, nobody else.

If it’s true… it’s true. If it’s the word of God, don’t demean it. If it’s something that is totally foreign and heretical as far as God is concerned, don’t teach it and don’t believe it.

So, if you read Romans through to Philemon, those are Paul’s 13 writings, there’s a lot to read and heed, isn’t there? Probably a couple of hundred things.

Let’s go to a little book that nobody hardly bothers about. It’s a great book, it’s two pages… Titus.

I have underscored in my Bible everything in Titus that Paul says we should do or think. In two pages I think it’s 72 things he says we should do or think or be. Seventy two things in two pages. Now don’t quote me on that, because I’m not sure, but it seems like it is something like that, seventy two, but it is a huge number of things.  

So when he says, “those things, which you have both learned and received and heard in me, DO.”  Then I have the last book, we’ll start with Romans.

Romans 12:1  I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice…

Now there’s something to do!

In Philemon and that is not even a whole page in the Bible. He says something in there that is very profound.  

Phm 1:18  If he hath wronged you, PUT IT ON MY ACCOUNT… I will repay it.

He comes to the rescue of Onesimus, a runaway slave and he tells Philemon that if he is taken from you or has short-changed you in any way, put it on my account. Can we learn from stuff like that? You bet we can, you bet we learn a lot.

If you follow these instructions and you do what it says and believe what it says is true and you do them year after year, you are going to become like that, you know. That’s what you will become!
If you read your Bible daily and study them thoroughly and follow and do what it admonishes… think on these things… meditate on God’s laws… God’s ways… forgive everyone and love everyone.  Follow and do these instructions everyday for the rest of your lives and you will BECOME WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT!  You will be ready to take on responsibilities in God’s Kingdom.

Isaiah 26:9  With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

Who is going to teach them righteousness and execute these “judgments in the earth?” WE ARE.

1 Corinthians 6:2 Know ye not that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
V. 3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels?

You can’t judge anybody, if we haven’t first judged ourselves and learned to do everything that the scriptures tell us.

                                                        I CAN’T STOP SINNING

Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

Well there it is, there’s your answer! What do you mean, you can’t stop sinning? “Let us lay aside [throw off, rid ourselves] every weight, and the SIN which doth so easily beset [entangles, naturally entraps, hinders] us.” There’s your answer! Who now knows how to stop sinning? Do you think it will work?

Romans 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
v. 13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

Well now, now we’ve got it. How do we stop sinning? “Don’t let sin reign in your mortal body.” Don’t let it!

Now, do you know how to conquer all your sins? Think it will work? Do you think you’ll go out armed to the teeth, with the spiritual knowledge of how to conquer your sins? Or maybe you’re not too sure that works and it’s ‘I guess you can do it.’ You just do it or rather when it comes to sin, don’t do it. So, there are some instruction on what we must do. So what else can I tell you? Do it!

So we have: lay aside sin. Don’t let sin reign in you, don’t yield yourself as an instrument of unrighteousness and sin. There are the instruments as to what we must do. Just do it, lay it aside, throw it off, rid yourself of sin, don’t let it reign over you, or as Jesus told the young woman caught in adultery; “Go and SIN NO MORE!”  

Some of you are saying, ‘I’ve tried and it didn’t work.’ That’s why I keep getting these emails. ‘I can’t stop watching pornography, I just can’t stop… I can’t stop drugs… I can’t stop masturbating… I can’t stop getting drunk… I can’t… I can’t…. I can’t’

Well, aren’t you glad you came to this meeting? I’m going to try to give you some encouragement. Trust me, there’s hope for all of us. Now, here’s some of the hope.

« Last Edit: March 12, 2010, 01:40:51 AM by Kat »


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Re: Mobile Conference 2009
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2010, 03:26:09 PM »

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation [Gk: adverse sentence, condemnation (regardless of what these detractors try to say, that not only does God pour out His indignation and wrath upon His elect, but He poured it out on His son all the days of His life, they say… nonsense )] to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Oh shoot, here’s something we have to do again. ‘Oh, I tried to walk after the spirit, not after the flesh, but I come up short.’ Some of you are shaking your head in agreement with that, you know what I’m talking about.

But here is another encouraging thought, “there’s no condemnation.” If you love Jesus and you love God and this is what you want, you’re on the right track.You might still be sinning, but you’re on the right track.

Romans 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

Who wants to explain that to me, anybody? “Not to doubtful disputations.” They might as well have left it untranslated, they might as well left it in the Greek. It would make about as much sense, wouldn’t it?

Romans 14:1 He that is weak in the faith receive you, but not for decision of scruples. (ASV) 
Oh, now I get it? What in the world does that mean?

Romans 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive not to judgments of disputing. (Bishop’s)
There’s a little glimmer there.

Romans 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive you, but not for disputing opinions. (Rotherham)

Well, that’s opening up a little bit.

Romans 14:1 And him who is weak in the faith receive ye--not to determinations of reasonings; (YLT)

Nah, befuddled again.

Sometimes we can be thankful that somebody wrote the Living Bible. Now I have heard people speak very disparagingly about this paraphrased Scripture, ‘most unscriptural in the world.’ It’s not too good of a literal translation, but it’s pretty good at a lot of places. 

I have found any number of scriptures that I have wrestled with, just because of the difficult wording in the King James and other translations. I love to read that one Scripture from the Concordant Version, a very good translation, one of the best… Concordant, Rotherham, Emphatic Diaglott

1 Thessalonians 2:14 For you, brethren, became imitators of the ecclesias (or the church) of God, which are in Judaea in Christ Jesus.  For ye suffered the same, even by your own fellow tribesmen, according as they also by the Jews,
v. 15  who killed the Lord Jesus, as well as the prophets and banish us, who are not pleasing to God and are contrary to all men,
v. 16  forbidding us to speak to the nations that they may be saved, to fill up their sins always, yet the indignation outstrips to them to a consummation.

WHAT? Might as well have left that untranslated. I think I understand that better in the Greek. “Yet the indignation outstrips to them to a consummation”? I said to several people already, they’re too accurate. You can be too accurate and too literal. When you do that, it starts to get stupid. 

Like the Concordant people has the disciples sitting down and “masticating” with Jesus. Come on, they were eating. Maybe the Greek did mean to masticate food, but in English we say, they were eating. Let’s translate it.

“Yet the indignation outstrips to them to a consummation.” That’s nonsense. I’m not even going to tell you what it should be. Play with that one for a while. But anyway, we can be thankful for the Living Bible. Let me give it to you from the Living Bible.

We have “determinations of reasonings,” “disputing opinions,” “discrimination of reasonings,” “judgments of disputing,” and “decisions of scruples.”

Romans 14:1 Give a warm welcome to any brother who wants to join you, even though his faith is weak. Don’t criticize him for having different ideas from yours about what was right or wrong.  For instance, don’t argue with him about whether or not to eat meat that has been offered to idols. (Living Bible)

Now do you understand it?  Don’t be afraid to use another translation sometimes. But there’s a point in that scripture. If we are told to not criticize people for different opinions about what is right and wrong, if we are not to do that, then what makes us think that God does that? The truth of the matter is, He doesn’t. Not only doesn’t He pour out His vengeance and wrath and indignation upon us, He doesn’t have any condemnation toward us. You say, ‘I don’t think He appreciates my sins.’ Well, I don’t doubt that.  But that doesn’t turn Him into a wrathful, hate filled God.

Romans 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
v. 33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifies.
v. 34 who is he that condemns? It is Christ that died, yea, rather that is risen again; who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.
v. 35 Who will separate us from the love of the Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
v. 36 as it is written, For whose sake we are put to death all the day long, we were reckoned as sheep of slaughter,
v. 37 nay, in all these things we more than conquerors, through him who loved us;
v. 38 for I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present,
v. 39 nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Now that should be encouraging to us. Does that then do away with, if you look back you are not fit for the kingdom of God? If you are not willing to sacrifice all and follow Me, does that do away with those Scriptures? No. But it let’s us know what God’s goal is with us.

Luke 9:62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

Are those things going to separate us from God, if God is determined to call us for a purpose and see us through to the end? No. We’re going to make it through to the end. ‘Well what if we stumble and fall?’ We may stumble and fall, but the word says He is able to pick us up again.

Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he stands or falls. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Proverbs 24:16 For a just man falls seven times, and rises up again…

That doesn’t mean he’s finished, all washed up. You have to understand that God is for you.  If God is for you, who or what can be against you? Get that in your head and make that part of your thinking. Think that for the rest of your life. If God is for you… ‘well I don’t know if He is?’ He calls people who are weak and have such stupid ideas as to question God and His motives, as that ‘He didn’t know what He was doing when He called me.’ God says, I did that to confound the mighty, I need your ignorance and weakness, so I can confound the mighty with you. You might say, ‘I’m not wise enough to confound my cat.’ Well, yes… not yet.

                                              WRATH IS: PUNISHMENT & JUDGMENT

Psa 78:49  He castH7971 upon them (these are those that turn their back on Him and don’t want to walk after the spirit) the fiercenessH2740 of his anger,H639 wrath,H5678 and indignation,H2195 and trouble,H6869 by sendingH4917 evilH7451 angelsH4397 among them.

Fierceness: H2740 chevron  - a burning of anger: - sore displeasure, fierce (-ness), fury, (fierce) wrath (-ful).

Anger: H639 'aph - anger, wrath.

Wrath: H5678 ‛ebrâh - an outburst of passion: - anger, rage, wrath.

Indignation: H2195  za‛am - strictly froth at the mouth, that is, (figuratively) fury (especially of God’s displeasure with sin): - angry, indignation, rage.

Trouble: H6869 tsârâh - adversary, adversity, affliction, anguish, distress, tribulation, trouble.

Evil: H7451 ra‛  râ‛âh - bad or evil.  adversity, affliction, distress, evil, grief, harm, heavy, hurt (-ful), ill (favored, mischief, misery, naught, noisome, sore, sorrow, trouble, vex, wicked, wretchedness, wrong.

So God does pour out His wrath and it’s pretty bad. Why?  Because of their great sin.

Psa 78:17  And they sinned…

And they refused to “walk” in God’s law.

Psa 78:10 They kept not the covenant of God, and refused to walk in His law;

Wow, that’s pretty bad. But, not on His elect. “There is no condemnation” (Rom. 8:1). Believe me, the wrath and fierceness and fury and evil and vengeance that God’s going to send on this world is not a pretty picture. But not on His elect! “There is no condemnation.”

You know that scripture, but you just don’t think about it, you don’t completely believe it, that’s the problem. Well, think about it and believe it. ’Well I guess if God was for me…’  Not if, He is for you! That’s why you are sitting here. Why would you spend hundreds of dollars and travel thousands of miles to come here if you didn’t want to obey God? If you didn’t want to fellowship with people of like minds? If you didn’t want to be instructed out of the word of God? Why would you do that? Of course God is for you.

Well, then who’s against you? Nobody. There’s no power you can put up against God. That’s a mismatch.

1Th 5:9  For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

But God has appointed us to tribulation.

1Th 3:3 That no man should be moved by these afflictions: for yourselves know that we are appointed thereunto.
v. 4  For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.

God’s Elect are God’s favorites, the chosen are favorites. He favors us and that’s why “there’s no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus and walk not after the flesh but after the spirit.”  (Notes) God’s Elect are God’s favorites upon whom He is now showing great favor. He does not hate us, neither is He anger with us.

1 Cor. 10:1-11 …We are NOT to do as those upon whom God poured out His WRATH!

                                        SO JUST HOW IS IT THAT WE STOP SINNING?

The answer is we can’t. But God can and does and He does it BY GRACE through faith.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

That is why: “There is now NO CONDEMNATION to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” (Rom. 8:1)

Now we sometimes chastise our children, just like God chastises us. Do we chastise our children because they always know what’s right and wrong and do it anyway? No, they’re young and foolish and sometimes they just don’t know what they’re doing or how wrong it is. But we chastise them so they’ll learn.

God uses anger and wrath to TEACH humanity that what they ARE doing is wrong. But He does not use anger and wrath on His very Elect. Nowhere does God pour out wrath upon His chosen saints. So don’t think that God is angry with you because you have a lot of trails and tribulations. It is part of your training to become SONS OF GOD.

If we are “saved by grace through faith and that not of our own,” (Eph. 2:08) then why are we still sinning and often times it just seems apparent that we’re unable to conquer, at least, certain sins?  It sounds like God takes the responsibility to get you to stop sinning and He does take that responsibility. If He takes that responsibility, does it mean you don’t have enough responsibility to do it yourself? That’s exactly what it means.

So there’s a process and it’s all according to God’s timing, not ours. I wanted to stop all my major sins and minor ones too, but especially the major ones, long before I ever stopped. I wanted to quit smoking long before I quit. Why didn’t I?

How many of you were smokers? Wow, God bless you all. My lungs are probably pink again, unless they are eaten up with cancer, but that’s a hard one. Smoking is one of the hardest thing to quit, very hard. They say nicotine is more addictive than heroin and I know. I actually quit a couple of times and started again. I quit smoking for 25 years and then started smoking again. When my wife left, she fell in love with the world and all the glitz and glamour, I wouldn’t date another girl who smoked. But one time in Atlanta I dated a girl who smoked… before you knew it, I was having a cigarette with her. Then I smoked for years. Then I quit again. 

But it takes a while for motivation, even though we can say God is the One who determines when you are actually going to put that last cigarette out. Nonetheless, you have to suffer through it.  You say, ‘no I put forth the effort.’ God made you put forth the effort. He made you choose and it was probably a hard choice.

But there’s a process to quitting smoking. You try, you fail and one thing and another.  But that’s one that a lot of people do and they take credit for it. Most people who quit smoking don’t give God credit for it. Some do and rightly so, but not all. 

So, there’s a process. First we are called of God;

1 Corinthians 1:26 For ye see your CALLING, brethren…

This will bring about wisdom, righteousness, sanctification and redemption.

1 Corinthians 1:28-29 …to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in His presence.
v. 30 But of Him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
v.31 That, according as it is written, He that glories, let him glory in the Lord.

So, God calls you, He calls the weak nothings of this world and then He makes us in Christ Jesus - wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption. That’s God’s work, God does that.

But there are other processes necessary to reach that goal.  We must first  “repent and believe the Gospel.” 

Mark 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
v.15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

When Jesus Christ began His ministry, did everybody repent? No. Now at John’s preaching, a lot of them got baptized. Did they understand the spiritual ramification of being baptized? Did they understand that they were being baptized into Christ’s death? No, they were just going under then water. Water is a sign of cleansing, washing off the dirt. They wanted to wash off the dirt, wash off their sins.

How many people were baptized? I guess, thousands and thousands. For years John baptized. Did it take? Well I like to tell people to go to the first chapter of Acts.  Jesus Christ told His disciples to get everybody together, I’m going to come and visit you. When Pentecost comes, you all be in one place I’m going to come.

Acts 1:14 These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, (waiting for this coming of the Comforter, the power of the Holy Spirit) with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.
v. 15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)

John baptized people by the thousands… Jesus Christ healed people by the thousands.

One time I went through a study and just showed what Jesus Christ did all day every day of His ministry. He healed the sick, all day long by the thousands and thousands. At the end of His ministry, He was crucified and raised from the dead and He told His disciples get out the word I want you to meet and you’re going to receive power and the Holy Spirit is going to come upon all of you. They all got together in one place… less than twice the amount of people we have in this room.

He healed thousands, remember one time that there were continually more being added. These people that were healed a lot of them they didn’t just go home, they were going to follow Jesus. These droves of people were going to see if He was going to heal anybody else, it was exciting stuff. But come Pentecost, there were 120 people. That’s really pathetic.

« Last Edit: August 31, 2015, 03:11:01 PM by Kat »


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Re: Mobile Conference 2009
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2010, 03:27:02 PM »
Audio 11

Jesus Christ said you have to repent and believe the gospel. But how do you do that?

John said to the Pharisees, what are you doing out here, you have to bring forth some proof of your repentance, before you can be baptized.

Romans 2:3 And think you this, O man, that judges them which do such things, and do the same, that you shall escape the judgment of God?

What did we read where we needed the Living Bible to get us straighten out? Those that want to join you, let them join you. But don’t be judging them because they have some differences about what they think is right or wrong.

We were over at Logan’s Roadhouse Grill yesterday, I ate my ‘Jimmy’s Salad.’ One of the men here, he was sitting back in the other corner, I said, why don’t ya’ll come over and join us we’ve got a room reserved over here, you know.  He said, ‘I’ve got a beer.‘ I said, I don’t care, bring it with you. Do you think you’re going to offend me with your beer? I don’t judge people according to what we think is right or wrong. I was tempted to have one with you.

Actually once in a great while I have had a beer, not many, but a couple in the last year. But I’m not supposed to have alcohol, because it’s very acid.

Romans 2:4 Or despise you the riches of His goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?

Oh, so God calls us and God is going to make us righteous and give us redemption and all that. It is God, through His goodness He brings us to repentance.

Well if you have been unable to repent of your sins, and keep them out of your life, maybe God had you come here today to learn a lesson. God will take care of it.  You say, ’well I wish He’d hurry up.’  God has His own timing. I just want you to have the confidence that it will happen. Why? Because you’re sitting here, you’ve proved to me that you love God. You don’t travel thousands of miles and spend hundreds and hundreds of dollars to come here, because you don’t love God and you don’t want to know God’s truth, of course you do. So what do you think that He’s going to turn His back on you? Of course not.

So if you just can’t understand how this sinful world can do the evils that they do and you shake your head at them, then you are “despising the riches of His goodness… not knowing that the goodness of God (not your own wise choice to follow God) leads you to repentance.” So if you are going to stop judging (condemning) the sinful world, you are going to have to “HUMBLE yourself.”

James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He shall lift you up.

So, you have to accept these things, accept these truths, accept these promises and so on. Because if you don’t, you’re kind of despising the word of God. You’ve got to believe the scriptures. Live by them.

So we’re told many times, in many ways, not to speak evil of a brother. 

James 4:11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother…

Now maybe you condemn yourself, because you’ve a problem with gossip, which you shouldn’t have. But let me have you understand something here, I get accused all the time, ‘Ray, you name names. You not only criticize people, you name names.’ I say, well, so did John, so did Jesus, so did Paul. Then they say, ‘well, you’re not Jesus.’  No, but we are supposed to be.

But these people that do these horrible thing, I don’t consider them my brothers, no. I’ve had some people, just like Paul said, Alexander the coppersmith has done me a lot of dirt, a lot of harm, okay? Well, should he have said that?  ’I can’t talk about a brother like that. Tell people how dirty they did you.  How could you get away with that?’  Well first of all, I don’t think he considered Alexander the coppersmith to be his brother. Who are your spiritual brothers? Here’s the answer….

Matthew 12:47 Then one said unto Him, Behold, Thy mother and Thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with Thee.
v. 48 But He answered and said unto him that told Him, Who is My mother? and who are My brethren?
v. 49 And He stretched forth His hand toward His disciples, and said, Behold My mother and My brethren!
v. 50 For whosoever shall do the will of My Father which is in heaven, the same is My brother, and sister, and mother.

But when people preach heresy and blaspheme the name of God, I don‘t consider them my brother. Secondly, there’s a giant difference between acknowledging somebody’s sins and shortcomings and condemning them to some evil fate, because of it. I’ve never condemned people that teach heresy, you know I hope they burn in hell or something, like they tell me.

But it’s not wrong (to name names). I get a lot of people, that say, ’how can you do that, you name names, that they are teaching falsely? God will judge them.’ I say didn‘t you read the top of my home site? Why we expose those who contradict? That’s a commandment from God to Paul and he’s passing it on to us, that you should expose those who contradict the word of God. I have no problem doing that. 

Jesus said to the Pharisees, “they be blind leaders of the blind.” (Mat. 15:14) and you hypocrites, you false prophets, you whitened septic tanks, you generation of snakes.  ‘Ooh, I thought He taught us not to talk like that.’ It needed to be said, we needed to understand that’s what they were and we need to understand that nothing has changed. He would say the same thing of today’s religious leaders, yes He would. The only difference is, they’ve gotten worse.

I mean, as bad as the Pharisees and the scribes and all those were, as bad as they were, you won’t read any place where they consigned people to an eternal hell of terrorism and torture of twelve thousand degrees of fire. Have you ever read where they did anything like that? Do you think today’s clergy are saints compared to those horrible Pharisees? I don’t think that the Pharisees even come close to the blasphemy of today’s theologians.
Mat 23:39  For I say unto you, Ye shall not see Me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

How about that?  So, He was calling them snakes, hypocrites, blind guides and whitened sepulchers and a generation of snakes, but notice it, did He say to hell with all of you rot in hell?  No, after He said all those things, He said “I say unto you,” in addition to all those bad things that you are, “Ye shall not see Me henceforth, till you shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.” Jesus is saying, one day, you’ll say that and then we’ll communicate, we’ll be friends, we’ll be brothers. And they will be blessed, because “Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.” They will be coming in the name of the Lord.

So, you are called and God imparts wisdom and knowledge to you and He leads you to repentance and all that, then you come and accept Jesus Christ as your savior. And well you have to have faith, He said “believe the gospel,” that’s faith.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that (that faith) not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

How do we come to Christ?

John 6:44 No man can come to Me (Jesus), except the Father which has sent Me draw (Greek means drag) him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

So, God does all these things, don’t feel frustrated if you’ve not conquered all your sins. You can feel bad and you should feel bad, you can feel guilty and you should feel guilty, but don’t become discouraged, for this too shall pass, in God’s time.

God is calling you, God is choosing you and you know in your heart if you want to obey God and live right and do right and walk in the spirit, you know that. Well, then it’s going to happen. There is no condemnation on God’s part. So have that assurance.

Ephesians 2:10 For we (God’s chosen Elect) are HIS (God’s) workmanship (Concordant translates this achievement), created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

We are God’s achievement, we don’t achieve it by ourselves.  We’re God’s workmanship, “we’re God’s achievement, created in Christ Jesus unto good works.”  So God intends for us to do good works.  If you’re not doing very many good works, God’s not through with you yet. He’s working with you, work-manship speaks of a process, achievement speaks more of reaching the goal. You will reach the goal.

So when you read all of this stuff, it appears like “all is of God”……well duh.

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

I guess we can all say amen to that.

Romans 3:24 Being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
v. 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation (that is a covering, a shelter) through faith in His blood, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
v. 26 To declare, I say, at this time His righteousness: that He might be just, and the justifier of him which believes in Jesus.

Now, it says you have to believe in Jesus, that’s faith. Where are you going to get that faith? It’s a gift of God too. Just rely on God, accept Him at His word.  Pray, say ‘God, Ray has shown me all this stuff, is that true, are You going to do all that in my life?’ 

Well, if He is calling you, of course He will. Why are you fretting so? Why do you really worry, that maybe you won’t be in the kingdom of God?  You will be, unless you’re sitting here faking it. Unless you really don’t love God and you would really prefer a worldly life of lust and sin and all of that. But if you’re here because you do love God, you love decency, and goodness and purity and virtue and all the things that Paul said to “think on these things.”  If that’s how you are and how you want to be, then that’s how it’s going to happen. In God’s time it will happen in your life.

                                                               ALL IS OF GOD

Romans 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
v. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
v. 29 Is He the God of the Jews only? is He not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
v. 30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
v. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? No, God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

But now we don’t go about trying to justify our own righteousness by works of the law. We know that unless God is doing it in us and through us, it’s of little or no value.  So, these are things to pray about, think about, meditate about and so on. Don’t be discouraged. Is God calling you? Of course He’s calling you… always remember that.

One person was really going to get his family turned off at him, to come here, because he was supposed to attend a family member’s wedding. He was thinking, ‘I’m going to go and listen to Ray teach.’ That didn’t settle too well with the family! Now it turns out that he had an accident and he has to be operated on the day after tomorrow. He was willing to do what it took to get here even if it meant losing respect with his own family members.

If God’s calling you, you’re going to have such trials. Maybe some of you could tell me such stories, where it was rather difficult for you to come, because some didn’t want you to come, you didn’t have the money to come. Moses, he’s back there. Moses got on a bus three days ago. He’s been riding day and night coming up here from Central Mexico for crying out loud. With only a few dollars in his pocket. Why did he do that? He wants to know about God. God will take care of him.

Yet, it’s all of God… the Concordant Version translates

Romans 11:36  Seeing that out of him, and through him, and for him, is all: to Him be the glory for the eons! Amen! (CLV)

1Cor 11:12  For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.

2Cor 5:18  And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to Himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

Eph 4:6  One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

God will see us through. God is no failure. We are God’s achievement. Yes, Paul worked on himself so as to not be a castaway.

1Co 9:27  But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

But he had complete confidence that “a crown of righteousness” was already waiting for him.

2Tim 4:8  Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love His appearing.

Waiting for Paul and ALL OF US at the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Do any of you have any questions about sin? Are you frustrated, you can’t overcome certain things or are you just not happy, not content?

[Attendee: Our weaknesses, does God uses that to humbled us?] Absolutely it will humble you. I mean when you try to do some things ten, twenty, fifty times for five or ten years and can’t do it, that’s humbling.

Ecclesiastes 1:13 God gives the children of humanity an experience of evil to humble him thereby.

This is humbling. The very fact that we grow old, get diseased and die, that’s humbling. You don’t think about that when you are twenty or thirty years old. I was forced to think about it and boy it will set you back on your heels.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2015, 02:57:27 PM by Kat »
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