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[judith collier]

I have just finished reading Ray's explanations to women and how we might feel at times when life appears cruel for us, where men are focused upon and we seem not to be doing anything of much importance.  Always serving, always taking care of others, peacekeeping, managing households, raising children, working outside the home, nursing the sick, giving consolation and handling most everything that is placed before us. We can get lonely and feel unappreciated, taken for granted just like the men. It's at these times we wonder.
Yes God we love You and thank you for our families and for being with us at any given moment. We thank you for the work you have given us to do and forgive us our ungratefulness.  We also hope like the men that we will be greeted by God as a good and faithful servant. Yet, sometimes we still wonder. Might there be some unique reward for us on earth or in heaven. Are we as important to you as our brothers in Christ?
You have got to read how Ray senses our feelings and asks our questions then together with Kat delves into the story of Esther. Now, where to find this I totally forgot but it shouldn't be too hard to locate. Our focus can get boggled down in problems, especially when we are young and any change seems far away. Being now into that far-away I see the unique reward prepared for us women thanks to Kat's explanation. I actually was aware of my blessings but did not see them as that unique reward, that fruit, that sensing of God saying, here, here, this is it. I merely thought of it all as a decent ending to my life.
Kat explains it in these words, "rejoice in her old age and how she handles herself and loved her family"  That's it!!! My God, my children love me, they look up to me, they seek my advice, they want to be with me, they trust me with their children, they look to me in understanding God. I have handled many things and went into the market place and helped prosper us all along with my husband. I am respected in the community and my husband can hold his head up besides other men. I have done my job well, thanks be to God and it was a very, very important job. I do count with God, my standing is alongside men and not beneath them.  Judy

[Kat]

Hi Judy,

You are referring to the Bible study that Ray gave on Esther - The Destiny of Women.

That is a astute observation that you mentioned from the transcript, here are some excerpts that I think you were speaking of.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5506.0.html ----

Pro 31:21  She is not afraid of the snow for her household; for all her household are clothed with scarlet.
v. 22  She makes herself coverings; her clothing is silk and purple.
v. 23  Her husband is known in the gates, when he sits among the elders of the land.

Why is her husband known?  Because of this wife.  That’s what it is saying.

Pro 31:24  She makes fine linen and sells it, and delivers girdles to the merchants.
v. 25  Strength and honor are her clothing; and she shall rejoice in time to come.

That really is hard to understand there, “in time to come.”  I think what the Hebrew is saying, is she will rejoice in her old age.  When she is old she will rejoice in how she handles herself and loved her family.  So she will rejoice in her old age.
v
Pro 31:30  Favor is deceitful, and beauty is vain, but a woman who fears the Lord, she shall be praised.
v. 31  Give her of the fruit of her hands; and let her own works praise her in the gates.

That is the virtuous woman.  This is God speaking, through His word, “Give her of the fruit of her hands; and let her own works praise her in the gates.”  Give her praise and honor for being such a good woman and doing these things. 
But again, who gets praise at the council meeting with the elders?  The woman?  No, the husband.  So you could even look at the virtuous woman and for all her great qualities, well they would say, ‘she did good, give her credit for a job well done.’ 

But is this the same height that God sets the 12 Apostles over the 12 tribes of Israel?  You got 12 men , 12 offices…..no women.  Has God shown us anywhere that He truly has it in His heart to raise women to the same level as men, in the kingdom of God?  Well yes I think He has.
v
James 4:10  Be humbled before the Lord, and He will lift you up.

There is one sin that is mentioned over several times, concerning who would or would not be in the kingdom.  The requirement was this…..Jesus set a child on His knee;

Mat 18:3  and said, Verily I say unto you, Except you turn, and become as little children, you shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of heaven.

He’s not saying become immature, but like a child - humble - a humble spirit - totally unpretentious, a humble spirit like a little child.  Unless you become like that as an adult, “you shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of heaven.”
v
Est 2:20  Esther had not yet revealed her kindred nor her people, as Mordecai had commanded her. For Esther obeyed the command of Mordecai as she did when she was brought up with him (as a child).

There it is.  Isn’t that beautiful.  She still had that same attitude of humility as she had as a child, when she was being reared by her uncle.  She never lost it.  Scripture does not contradict.  When God says this has to be there…..it’s got to be there.  It was there.  You could just read over it, but you can see it now that I pointed it out.  It’s there she had the same humility she had when she was being reared as a little child and now she is the queen.  But she still had that humility for her uncle Mordecai.  Well this is just an interesting story.
v
Est 9:3 ….the fear of Mordecai was fallen upon them.
v. 4  For Mordecai was great in the king's house, and his fame went forth throughout all the provinces; for the man Mordecai waxed greater and greater.
v. 5  And the Jews smote all their enemies….

And how was this all done?  Through this little Jewish girl, who was as humble even as the queen that she was, as a girl growing up.   So she freed her people from certain death.

Est 10:3  For Mordecai the Jew was next unto king Ahasuerus, and great among the Jews, and accepted of the multitude of his brethren, seeking the good of his people, and speaking peace to all his seed.

So he was elevated with great honor and glory.  But yet he was under Esther, the queen.
So ladies you need to feel a little better about how God looks upon women.  He has left us a perfect example, just like with Daniel and just like with Joseph.
That women will indeed be raised to the highest level there is under Jesus Christ.  Now there are rewards, but there is really only one calling.  You know you shall be rewarded according to your works, but there is only one calling and I want you to see that.
------------------------------------------------------

Thanks for bringing this transcript forward, it is good to be reminded of what God has in store for us.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hi Judy

The DESTINY of Women.    Ray pays so much honor to Godly women like Esther.

From the Bible Study Ray writes about what occurred after Vashti refused to obey her husband.  King Ahasuerus and….

His advisors got together and said;

Est 1:19  …. that Vashti come no more before king Ahasuerus; and let the king give her royal estate unto another that is better than she.
v. 20 … ( so that) all the wives will give to their husbands honor, both to great and small.
v. 22  for he sent letters into all the king's provinces, into every province according to the writing thereof, and to every people after their language, that every man should bear rule in his own house, and should speak according to the language of his people.

It is so interesting to me that Ray points out WHO was trying to make all the wives give husbands honor, both great and small.  It was the Pagan King Ahasuerus advisors who got together …(so that) all the wives will give to their husbands honor, both to great and small.

The motive of pagan men is still the same today. They want wife’s to give THEM HONOUR. An obedient wife IS an honor to a Godly man but to an unGodly man she is a door mat. Pagan men are not Godly. My husband is Godly and he honors and he loves and values me for which I do my best to obey, submit, revere, pray, esteem him highly and be appreciative for him as I should. To a pagan ungodly man,  he wants a feisty glitzy dazzling wife to show off to impress his friends, for which Vashti took the fall for her disobedience. Pagan men can’t love and pagan wives can’t obey. Look at the Divorce statistics!

It is the husband who is to honor and love the wife and the wife has to OBEY her husband. The wife has to be subject and submissive to her husband not the husband to the wife! Oh how the woman’s rights movement has got this so wrong. They put the head for the tail and the tail for the head.
Vashti did not OBEY her husband. She flat out publically disobeyed him and that is a lesson for all women whether married to a Ahasuerus or a King David.

By the same token, Abigale did not give honor to her husband now did she but boy oh boy she saved her household and her husband from death. In this Abigale certainly was responding to the needs of her cruel evil husband to stay alive in his drunken merriness of heart.  Abigale was miserable and she knew exactly what her husband was. She cried to the King, admitted her husband was a fool and we all know what happened to Nabal and that Abigale ended up MARRYING the King! Ref : 1 Samuel 25
Great topic Judy!

I think we can personally identify our lives as symbolized by the many parables, metaphors and stories of women of the Bible.

Thanks for posting.

Deborah.

[frecklegirl417]

Hello, Ladies!

 I commend you Judy, Kat, Deborah. I try everyday to HONOR my wonderful, loving husband. Some days are hard but I close my eyes and pray for strength to keep honoring him. I am one of those women who stands by her husband even if I feel he is wrong, then in private I talk to him. I am also not a nagger.. I ask him to do something he does on his time. Why nag I know it will be done? The women who nag, belittle their men, choose to humiliate him in public make it look bad for the women who honor, who are submissive, and make their husbands stand tall and proud. I am glad to have a husband who loves me and honors me with his love and devotion everyday. He is the best decision I ever made in my life and I thank our father above everyday to wake up next to him.

                                                           A humble but grateful wife,
                                                               Pam

[Marlene]

I think a woman can have a bad man and still, set an example for him. I have often seen men won over by the way she is with him and his children.

I really hate when I see a man who runs over his wife, or a wife who runs over her husband.

My Husband is good to me and all of my family.

We were never able to have children. But, we have spent time helping our neighbors, and also, helping our nieces and great nephews.

I am so glad that God did not make us to be selfish. We really could have been.

What, hurts others hurts us. I am blessed that my Husband likes to help my family. I have a Mother 89. A sister who is paralyzed. A niece trying to take care of her Mother who has cancer. I cook things for them and have given of time and money to them. I am so thankful that my Husband treats them as his family.

I have my health problems too. But, I try and do all I can to help.

I too, thank God for my Husband and he is a gift from God. I asked for him a long time ago. I also, know that my Husbands Loves me. He may not use the word Love all the time but his actions speak louder.

I think Mothers are wonderful. I know, my Mother has made me what I am. Not, saying my Father did not help.

I feel sorry for women who give all and never have a husband who sees. But, some day they will. In God's time they will.

Judy you have been a blessing to me just by seeing how you endure. What, a blessing to have all your children love you and take advice from you.

I guess, since I wanted children so badly God gave me nieces and nephews to love and look after.

You know, God can change a woman who nags and a man who likes to treat a woman like a slave. Or, a woman who treats her husband beneath her.

A family is meant to lift each other up. That , is why God has a family in mind. He wants to lift us up and train us to be the perfect Son and Daughter.

This will be the only perfect Family. Thats, why I love coming in here. There is lots of hurting people here. We need each other. We need that human beging who we can share and relate things with. Help others to see how we ovecome some of the same battles.

So, glad to be a member here.

In His Love,
Marlene

[longhorn]

God Bless all women.  My ex told me I came a distant second to a hot bubble bath and a good Anne Rice Novel.

Love in Christ

Longhorn

[Ninny]

Longhorn, I think you will find that we women are very generous, kind, and loving...after all..she at least let you be on the list...   
Kathy

[aqrinc]

Ladies,

I tread very carefully in these waters, swimming with sharks is much easier to do than trying to show why being a servant to all is better. See if the Scriptures below can provide a better answer than any of man's or woman's wisdom, concerning service and its ultimate purpose. I think women have by far the better deal (starting out) for storing up Treasure in Heaven. Either A: God And our Lord Christ Jesus know or b: we know better; i will go with the first (A).

Based on evidence; the point is that if we look at things from the human (short term perspective) we always feel that someone has an advantage or got a better deal. There are several other Scriptures that make it quite plain that humility and an attitude of the servant of all is a hugely Godly Trait we are to learn.

Mar 9:33-37 (EMTV)
33  Then He came to Capernaum. And being in the house He asked them, "What were you disputing about with one another on the road?"
34  But they were silent, for on the road they had discussed with one another who was greater.

35  And having sat down He called the twelve, and said to them, "If anyone desires to be first, he shall be last of all and servant of all."

36  And taking a child, He stood him in their midst. And taking him in His arms, He said to them,
37  whoever receives one of these little children in My name receives Me; and whoever receives Me, receives not Me, but Him who sent Me."

george .

[onelovedread]

Women and men have different roles in the natural scheme of things. But should we differentiate on the positions of men and women? Are we truly all one in Christ? Isn't the important thing what God purposes for us?
Here's an excerpt from a Ray email:

Ray Replies]

.... God is SPIRIT. God is interested ONLY in spiritual things. All this physical creation is not something that God takes great pleasure in--it is but a means to an end. Well, what does He want then? He wants CHILDREN! SPIRITUAL Sons and Daughters in HIS VERY IMAGE!
But, how does He get them? Create them? Yes, CREATE them. But how does He create them. Instantly? No. To be in the IMAGE of God means that we will have the very same CHARACTER AND LOVE of God. Character and Love cannot be created instantly; it can only be developed over a period of time under severe pressure and duress.  And so God creates severe pressure and duress, which produces GODLY CHARACTER.  Imagine creating "patience," INSTANTLY?  Why the very thought is self-contradicting. Patience by its very nature means that something must be WAITED FOR even though it is desired NOW.
God knows what He is doing. Now then, there is a second part to all this. We ourselves would never ever really appreciate the qualities of character, virtue, and love, that we will possess if we did not have to "sweat blood" to get them. There is no virtue that you can name that is not the result of overcoming some form of evil.  And so this physical, human, temporal existence is as beneficial for US, and it is to GOD.
Hope this helps your understanding a little better.
God be with you,
Ray

[EKnight]

It is an honor, privilege and a blessing to be the gender that God chose to be the givers of the miracle of life.  With all it's laborious pain, I would give birth again in a heartbeat. 

Eileen

[Ellie]

Well I just gotta stand up for the guys here. Millions of men throughout history have suffered the agony of war,serving their country,laboured long for their families in all kinds of  conditions from slavery to a pittance for their work.The driving force of survival has seen men in so many hard conditions in this world.Some men would see giving birth as a holiday,besides that, they would line up for the honor if they thought the human species would be extingushed...

[ez2u]

  Ellie I guess its still a mans' world  when you are up lifting woman they still get in there

[Deborah-Leigh]

"There's one thing you must give fathers credit for: they always go through the suffering of childbirth without anesthetic."
Anonymous

[Linny]

LOL Arc.
I will add this to the mix as it has always been one of my favorites. And in honor of the recently passed lady who made me smile when she did it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVl4bmGcn3c

[Ellie]

 :)Arc........Ooooooh.....Linny..Kind of horrifying to contemplate any truth in that....but funny..I remember being late once.........that was on my wedding day.........