Hi Hayley,
Got me thinking too Bob - Where Jesus went - are paradise and heaven the same thing?
Ray spoke of the kingdom of the heavens being a realm (not what christianity teach as an after life destination)
I agree with Ray's insight that we are the heavens (in our spiritual place inside of us when we are converted)
But what or where is paradise?
Another realm where we go after death and resurrection - when we are cleansed from our sins?
Or is it here and now - or are they the same?
Luke 23:43 And He said to him, "Truly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise."
2Co 12:3 And I know that this man was caught up into paradise--whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows--
Rev 2:7 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.'
I believe that the word "paradise" used in those Scriptures and the place that Jesus said “Where I am going, you cannot follow now” (John 13:36) in Alex's post, is the heavenly realm. That realm is God's abode where there is perfect righteousness and truth and the "Tree of Life" - Jesus Christ, is the central figure in the heavenly realm - paradise.
Here is where Ray did speak on paradise.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,979.0.html ----
It is not kosher to quote half of a verse when it has a larger context. Jesus did not begin a sentence with: "TODAY you shall be with me in paradise," did He? No, Jesus said: "Verily I say unto thee TODAY shall you be with Me in paradise." But even that is King James translating, and King James is not inerrant. Notice how the great scholar Joseph Bryant Rotherham renders this verse: "Verily I say unto thee this day: With me shalt thou be in Paradise." But as a footnote he suggests that "This day with me shalt...." as a possibility. So what's the solution? God tells us how to solve this verse and every other verse of Scripture: "That no prophecy of scripture becomes self-solving" (II Pet. 1:20, Rotherham), "That no prophecy of scripture at all is becoming its OWN explanation" (Concordant LNT).
We must go to other Scriptures to explain what is mean by this Scripture.
But is this what theology does? No, theologians say this this verse EXPLAINS ITSELF --"That VERY DAY the thief went with Christ TO HEAVEN." Oh really? That is not what the REST of the Bible teaches.
DON'T "assume" that "paradise" means heaven. Why would you do that? Is there any Scriptural justification for that? NO, no there isn't. In what way do the Scriptures liken paradise to heaven? Most theologians assume things that AREN'T there, and then teach the absolute opposite of what things ARE in the Scriptures. "Paradise" is a Persian word that means "park or garden."
There is the mention of only two primary "gardens" in Scripture: The "tree of life" (Gen. 2:9) is found in Garden of Eden (Gen. 2:9). And what else is that Garden of Eden called? Answer: "To him that overcomes will I give to eat of the TREE OF LIFE, which is in the midst of the PARADISE of God" (Rev. 2:7).
[1] The "Garden of Eden." Was that garden, "heaven?" What did we find in that garden: (1) the knowledge of EVIL, (2) rebellion and SIN, (3) a flaming SWORD, (4) the pronouncement of CURSES, and (5) the lying SERPENT (Satan--Rev. 12:9).
[2] The "Garden of Gethsemane." Was that garden "heaven?" What did we find in that garden? (1) The Apostles DESERTED Jesus in this garden, (2) Judas BETRAYED Jesus in this garden, (3) an army of wicked elders, scribes and chief priest with clubs and SWORDS, (4) Jesus is carried away from this garden to be CRUCIFIED, and (5) This garden contained the TOMB in which the DEAD Jesus was placed.
Do any of this evils in these two paradise gardens sound like "heaven" to you? I don't care if there are NO commas in Luke 23:43. Commas do not make or break the Scriptures of God. This verse does not contradict hundreds and hundreds of other Scriptures as the Church teaches it does. That day, "today," both Jesus AND the thief, DIED AND THEY WERE DEAD
This is a large subject involving the different resurrections, and the Judgments of God. It will take a sizable paper to cover it properly and I cannot do it now. Hope you understand.
God be with you,
Ray