indianabob -
Thank you for your explanation Alex,
Very well put and helpful...
Much appreciated, Indiana Bob
= = =
Hi Rick,
Try looking at several translations and also remember that the word for 'born' and 'conceived' are the same word--Begotten.
The Greek does not distinguish between the two but the idea of being born of God and being conceived of God are vastly different.
For example, those born of God are powerful and invisible like the wind and do not sin but those conceived of God will continue to sin until they are birthed into God's kingdom at the Resurrection of the dead.
Here is another translation, the ISV --
1Jn 5:18 We know that the person who has been born from God does not go on sinning. Rather, the Son of God protects them, and the evil one cannot harm them.
Here is another translation, the CLV --
1Jn 5:18 We are aware that everyone who has been begotten of God is not sinning, but he who is begotten of God is keeping himself, and the wicked one is not touching him."
(Rotherham) We know that, whosoever hath been born of God, is not committing sin,—Nay, he that hath been born of God, He keepeth him, and, the wicked one, doth not touch him.
(YLT) We have known that every one who hath been begotten of God doth not sin, but he who was begotten of God doth keep himself, and the evil one doth not touch him;
Now consider that it may be John meant exactly as the ISV translates, that we don't go on sinning but our sinning eventually comes to an end as we don't go on sinning day after day but we reign in that sin as God works in us. We know that as paul said, sin is not to REIGN in our mortal bodies but to RECKON ourselves dead and burried with Christ. That doesn't mean we stop sinning completely as whoever says they are without sin is a liar and makes God a liar for all sin but what it does mean is we aren't slaves to our old sinful carnal ways and we move onto maturity and perfection little by little, day by day, as God continues the work He began in us. The author and perfecter of our faith.
Alternatively, what John may have meant was that BORN of God STOP sinning which we know is true. Jesus is the only Begotten (BORN) Son of God and He did not sin! We also know that He is invisible and powerful as the wind as He was raised a spiritual body. At the Resurrection when we are birthed into God's Kingdom and are as He is, we too will no longer sin. For now we are conceived with the holy spirit as a down payment and promise of the future redemption to come.
So there is really two ways to look at this but I tend to look at it as John is speaking of those BORN (NOT conceived) of God as opposed to how I think the ISV is trying to portray it simply because the majority of LITERAL translations seem to imply at that moment one is 'BEGOTTEN' they stop sinning. This can only be true if the meaning for begotten is 'BORN' as opposed to 'CONCEIVED.'
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Interesting Post.
Please note the following definitions (and I know that there are many different definitions):
1.
Begotton -Something is begotten when it's been generated by procreation — in other words, it's been
fathered. A somewhat old fashioned adjective, begotten is the past participle of the verb beget, which means to father or produce as offspring.
2.
Born - born meaning, definition, what is born: to
come out of a mother's body, and start to exist.
3.
Conceived - To conceive is to get pregnant, to coming up with a plan or to imagine something. An example of conceive is when a man and a woman create a child.
You say that in the Greek,
Born and
Begotten are the same; and you say
Conceived is different.
We know that in Mary, Jesus was
Conceived by The Holy Spirit (of God Our Heavenly Father), so when Jesus was
Born - was that the Time He was
Begotton? Was Jesus not The Father's Son before He became a Man? Was He
Conceived,
Born and
Begotten twice?
Parallel the Called Out, Called Out, Dragged Out, Elect of Christ's renewal - were The Elect not first
Conceived by The Holy Spirit (of Our Heavenly Father)?: Does He then not state in a number of New Covenant Scriptures that His Elect were
Begotten, past tense? If so, when did the Elect get their
New Hearts of Flesh? Can His Elect (in this current Age) be purely only
Conceived? Can something
Conceived (even by The Holy Spirit) do anything at all while still in the (natural or spiritual) womb? Why do we have two sets of laws with authority over us - one being the 'law of sin and death' and the other being the 'law of the New Birth In Christ'? Whether we reckon ourselves dead to sin or not - is it not True that the part of us that sins is the part of us that is called 'the old man' or the 'first Adam'? Are we not to be the 'Second Adam, in Christ Himself', or rather be 'Part of The Body of Christ'? Surely, there are far too many Scriptures aimed at His Elect (in this current Age of Grace) for them only to apply to His Elect (in the next Age) when His Elect will have their Resurrected Spiritual Bodies.
I do not want to offend anyone, nor try to teach anything to anyone, as I know nothing - and only His Holy Spirit can reveal and teach any of us His Truths.
Perhaps, we should all meditate on this for a few hundred hours, as Ray may have said, in an attitude of Prayer before Him - as perhaps, we are maybe, belittling, who and what, we really are Now, in Christ.
Did Paul not state in I Corinthians 14:5 - For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in
Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
Just Thinking Out Aloud Again.
George