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Author Topic: Adam created immortal?  (Read 3498 times)

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indianabob

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Adam created immortal?
« on: October 26, 2023, 11:39:43 PM »

On a new topic I have been wondering about.
When Adam took of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, did he lose immortality?
If not then why not?
If God administered punishment by telling Adam that he would be dying because of his disobedience.
then was he not dying previously?
=
Inquiring minds want to know.

Genesis 3:22
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octoberose

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Re: Adam created immortal?
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2023, 01:49:10 AM »

Hey Bob, I don’t think he was dying before the unfortunate run in with a serpent and the fruit .  Sin brings forth death, so I don’t think death was a reality for them until they sinned.  But afterwards, the process of death began, and continues …. Until it’s thrown into a very particular lake.  :)
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arion

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Re: Adam created immortal?
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2023, 05:55:04 AM »

Lose immortality?  Did he have it to begin with or was he created mortal to begin with?  If you are immortal how can you lose it?  Oxymoron there to my way of thinking.
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ralph

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Re: Adam created immortal?
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2023, 07:46:36 AM »

On a new topic I have been wondering about.
When Adam took of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, did he lose immortality?
If not then why not?
If God administered punishment by telling Adam that he would be dying because of his disobedience.
then was he not dying previously?
=
Inquiring minds want to know.

Genesis 3:22

When you look at the scripture from a spiritual perspective, it makes perfect sense. 

Adam and Eve sinned, and we know that sin brings forth death, spiritually speaking.

James 1:15

15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.


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Dennis Vogel

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Re: Adam created immortal?
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2023, 08:23:42 AM »

Lose immortality?  Did he have it to begin with or was he created mortal to begin with?  If you are immortal how can you lose it?  Oxymoron there to my way of thinking.

Agree - Adam and Eve were Not Created Perfect in the Image of God! https://youtu.be/gX4djlwUPKU?si=oDQJk_kv68w5wgAc
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octoberose

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Re: Adam created immortal?
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2023, 12:11:16 PM »

No, not created perfect but death did not come into the world until sin came into the world.  ( Romans 5: 12.  Therefore, as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death passed until all men…..” )
And just to add something else to it,  Genesis 3- “ Look, the man has become as one of us, to know good and evil.  What if he stretches out his hand and takes also from the tree of life and eats, and lives forever? And Yahweh God sent him out from the garden of Eden….”
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indianabob

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Re: Adam created immortal?
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2023, 03:30:29 PM »

No, not created perfect but death did not come into the world until sin came into the world.  ( Romans 5: 12.  Therefore, as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death passed until all men…..” )
And just to add something else to it,  Genesis 3- “ Look, the man has become as one of us, to know good and evil.  What if he stretches out his hand and takes also from the tree of life and eats, and lives forever? And Yahweh God sent him out from the garden of Eden….”

Hi October,
So if the tree of life hadn't been tasted of yet, then he wasn't immortal yet.
But could he have taken of the tree of life first?
Or does that take a miracle from God to accomplish?

Plus if we think about it...even if he wasn't yet condemned for sin, he and Eve did have to eat for sustenance and breath oxygen to burn food for energy to function.
He or they still were just a "mechanical device" composed of matter and water and invested with the spirit of life and subject to die of starvation or suffocation.

Thanks for all the ideas, Bob
« Last Edit: October 27, 2023, 03:32:45 PM by indianabob »
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octoberose

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Re: Adam created immortal?
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2023, 04:41:09 PM »

Well, is anyone created actually immortal?   Isn't God the only one who has no beginning or end ? Isn't He the only one set apart from Time?  Is Christ even immortal?  We believe he was created by his Father, as all sons are.  So, He has a beginning, he died and then was raised to Life. Adam was created and I see that he would not have died if he hadn't sinned. What he would have to do to preserve that life is beyond me.  If God wants to keep you alive He will do so by any means He desires.   And is not the Tree of Life actually Christ? Is it an actual tree?  Is there a reason the New Testament keeps telling us that Christ died on the Tree ?   
 Immortality is more than deathlessness.

And then there's this I'd love to get clarification on - I Timothy 613. 
I charge you in the presence of God, who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who in his testimony before Pontius Pilate made the good confession, to keep the commandment unstained and free from reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, which he will display at the proper time- he who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and the Lord of Lords, who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. 

So, who is the blessed and only Sovereign? God like I'm thinking? Or no, the verse is referring to Christ? How can it talk about Christ whom no one has seen when they all had seen him? So, I think God alone has immortality. Didn't Ray say no one has seen God and we have no reason to think we ever would?
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: Adam created immortal?
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2023, 08:11:01 PM »

Quote
"So, I think God alone has immortality" 

God lives 'eternally' and is not immortal because He alone has no beginning and no end as you point out. Only Jesus has immortality (for now) because He had a beginning as you point out.
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octoberose

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Re: Adam created immortal?
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2023, 09:31:28 PM »

Oh , so my meaning was right but the terms were wrong ? Why is it so simple when you say it Dennis and I make it so complicated ?
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Musterseed

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Re: Adam created immortal?
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2023, 09:46:30 PM »

Rom.8:20….. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly,
but by Him who has subjected the same in hope.

21… because the creature itself also shall be delivered from THE BONDAGE OF
CORRUPTION into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

Man was never immortal, neither was he incorruptible.
Not before Adam and Eve sinned . Not after. This is why Paul tells us
that .

1 Cor. 15 53…. For this CORRUPTIBLE must put on incorruption ,
and this MORTAL must put on immortality.


From the LOF 15, all caps Rays
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ralph

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Re: Adam created immortal?
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2023, 10:48:16 PM »

No, not created perfect but death did not come into the world until sin came into the world.  ( Romans 5: 12.  Therefore, as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death passed until all men…..” )
And just to add something else to it,  Genesis 3- “ Look, the man has become as one of us, to know good and evil.  What if he stretches out his hand and takes also from the tree of life and eats, and lives forever? And Yahweh God sent him out from the garden of Eden….”

Hi October,
So if the tree of life hadn't been tasted of yet, then he wasn't immortal yet.
But could he have taken of the tree of life first?
Or does that take a miracle from God to accomplish?

Plus if we think about it...even if he wasn't yet condemned for sin, he and Eve did have to eat for sustenance and breath oxygen to burn food for energy to function.
He or they still were just a "mechanical device" composed of matter and water and invested with the spirit of life and subject to die of starvation or suffocation.

Thanks for all the ideas, Bob

This is my understanding:

He couldn't have taken from the tree of life first. The tree of life represents Christ and deathlessness (Gen 3:22 lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever, John 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever).

Every human being that has ever been born must first eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil to "become like one of Us, to know good and evil," before taking from the tree of life.

1 Corinthians 15:45-50

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.







« Last Edit: October 28, 2023, 05:05:40 PM by ralph »
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mike kyner

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Re: Adam created immortal?
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2023, 01:53:55 PM »

I don't think we can say "if he had not..." as his eating of the fruit {at least in my opinion} that was part of the creation process
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Dynamo54

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Re: Adam created immortal?
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2023, 02:37:58 PM »

I agree Mike.  If it happened, it was supposed to happen. Just like everything else in life. A time and a purpose for everything under the sun (paraphrasing).
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