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Author Topic: Romans 2:9  (Read 2453 times)

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Musterseed

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Romans 2:9
« on: November 04, 2023, 03:47:19 PM »

From Gehenna Fire Judgment paper

Ray makes a statement in brackets concerning this scripture.

Tribulation and anguish upon every soul of man( first time the world is
included with God’s people in tribulation) that doeth evil, of the Jew
first and also of the Gentile.

Is this the time we are experiencing now? I don’t understand.
Thoughts anyone.

Thanks
In Christ, Pamela
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" No man can come to me,except the Father draw him"
                                   (John 6: 44)

Porter

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Re: Romans 2:9
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2023, 02:17:15 AM »

To me, it sounds like the Great White Throne Judgement in the day of the Lord.

Quote
Rom 2:5  But because of your hardness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath, when God's righteous judgment is revealed.
Rom 2:6  He will repay each one according to his works:
Rom 2:7  eternal life to those who by patiently doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
Rom 2:8  but wrath and indignation to those who are self-seeking and disobey the truth, but are obeying unrighteousness;
Rom 2:9  affliction and distress for every human being who does evil, first to the Jew, and also to the Greek;
Rom 2:10  but glory, honor, and peace for everyone who does good, first to the Jew, and also to the Greek.
Rom 2:11  There is no favoritism with God
.


Contrasted by the fact that the Elect are not appointed to wrath.

Quote
1Th 5:9  For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Th 5:10  who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with Him.
1Th 5:11  Therefore encourage one another and build each other up as you are already doing
.
The passage in Romans is saying the same thing as many of Jesus' parables. So that passage above from Romans is also a parable because it mentions both the many called and the few chosen. Thoughts? 


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Luk 22:31  "Simon, Simon, look out! Satan has asked to sift you like wheat.
Luk 22:32  But I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail. And you, when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers."

indianabob

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Re: Romans 2:9
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2023, 12:27:51 PM »

Friend Porter,

What happens at the White throne judgment?

Is it not, that everyone who has not already been resurrected at Christ's return is then resurrected to face judgment for the first time?
And that they are all still mortal so that they can be given life or killed again in the lake of fire?

So then at the White Throne evaluation, the sheep are separated from the goats?

Do the people at the white throne need to have faith?
No, because they can see what has happened without faith.

Please add or correct as needed.
Indiana Bob
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Porter

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Re: Romans 2:9
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2023, 05:53:40 AM »

Hi Bob, I'll let Ray answer your first question. I know you're not suggesting there is an eternal torment in literal fire, but you are asking if those being resurrected to judgment will be harmed or even killed. Whether they are mortal or not, I do not know.


Two Judgements by Fire

https://bible-truths.com/lake6.html


SALVATION BY FIRE

No, our merciful and graceful loving God and Father does not eternally torture humanity IN fire, but rather eternally saves humanity BY fire.
Let's read it and rejoice:

    "Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he has built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED; YET SO AS BY FIRE"
    (I Cor. 3:13-15).

Does everyone understand this? NO ONE is tortured, killed, or annihilated in this fire! This fire of God SAVES people who go through it! There is salvation BY means of this fire. This fire is part of God's judgment and grace!

When God purges the hearts and minds of the wicked with His all-consuming spiritual fire, they will be UTTERLY ASHAMED! Notice what God says in Revelation 14:10 regarding anyone who is a part of this one world religious system:

    "The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God [seeing that "For ALL nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of HER fornication..." Rev. 18:3], which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented [UTTERLY ASHAMED-spiritual and mental torment] with the fire and brimstone [God DIVINE spiritual fire] in the presence of the holy angels, and in THE PRESENCE OF THE LAMB" (Rev. 14:10).

They are going to have to face their sins and wickedness and hypocrisy, NOT in the presence of GOD ALMIGHTY, but in the presence of "the LAMB!" How embarrassing and shameful it will be for all those being purged in the God's spiritual consuming lake of fire to see and acknowledge their whole life of sin in the very presence of the Lamb of God Who DIED FOR THEM! Every heart in the universe will melt like snow in a furnace when they face the LAMB OF GOD in their judgment!



As to your second question. Somewhere along the line, after the resurrection, the sheep will be separated from the goats, yes.
Not really sure how to answer your third question, so let me ask this. What is it that one must see not to need faith? Does being able to literally see judgment, and separation somehow make null and void spiritual invisible faith? Is the Elects judgment now something that can be seen?
« Last Edit: November 06, 2023, 06:25:43 AM by Porter »
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Luk 22:31  "Simon, Simon, look out! Satan has asked to sift you like wheat.
Luk 22:32  But I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail. And you, when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers."

Musterseed

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Re: Romans 2:9
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2023, 06:00:05 PM »

Sorry it took me so long to reply, our basement flooded, among other
things breaking down. Anyway, I don’t think this comment from Ray( first time
man is included with Gods people in tribulation) is referring to the GWT,however it does sound more like
what’s happening leading up to the great white throne judgement) just my thought.

From the Lucifer Hoax
Rev.20:11, 16 and 21:1
And I saw a great white throne, and Him that sat on it whose face the EARTH
( of man) and the HEAVEN ( of man) fled away.and THERE WAS NO PLACE FOR THEM……. and whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into
the lake of fire. And I saw a NEW Heaven and a  NEW earth., for the first
Heaven and the first earth are passed away. And there was no more sea.

It would be mind boggling enough to think that the entire UNIVERSE could flee away, but it would be quite another to then suggest that there was no place
found for them. That would be absurd if taken literally.All these things are SPIRITUAL. In the White Throne Judgement there will be no more a place for
the flesh, for the carnal mind, for man’s heaven. There will truly be no place
found for them. They will be annihilated in God’s CONSUMING FIRE.

God will give man a new earth and a new heaven.And as for the great sea
of carnal God defying humanity…… ther was no more sea.


No man, no carnal man has ever ascended into God’s Heaven of Spirit.
( John 3:13) Jesus could live on earth and in heaven at the same time,
but carnal men live in the heaven of their own minds all the time.
Man’s heaven is a place of SPIRITUAL DELUSION, Whereas God’s heaven
is a place of SPIRITUAL ENLIGHTENMENT.

Notice Prov. 23:7….. For as he thinks in his heart, SO IS HE.

So every man’s works is to be made manifest by fire( 1:Cor.3:13-15)

From Two Judgements by Fire

“ and I saw a great white throne….and I saw the dead…. and the dead were
judged…. according to their works….and they were judged EVERY MAN
according to their works.

Is this fire in the Book Of Revelation any DIFFERENT that tries the work of
believers in the book of Corthithians? No, the word fire is the same word fire
for both believers and nonbelievers.

Romans 14:10 and 2 Cor.5:10

Matt.19:28…. Jesus said to them,” Truly  I say to you, in the NEW WORLD
when the Son of Man sits on His glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.”

Come Lord Jesus

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" No man can come to me,except the Father draw him"
                                   (John 6: 44)

ralph

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Re: Romans 2:9
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2023, 07:42:28 PM »

"All these things are SPIRITUAL" And Ray is absolutely correct.  So much confusion will melt away when we just believe and understand that the Kingdom of God is within us and the words Christ speaks are spirit and they are life.
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