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[Samson]

Hello Everyone,

                      I thought this might be an interesting Subject, mainly because many Christians seem to think Universal Salvation for All is some obscure belief without majority support that some small Heritical group of Christians conjured up in opposition to Mainline Christian Thought. John Wesley Hanson wrote some Articles on Universalism during the Eighteenth Century, one of which was very important to me in my search for Truth on the " Salvation Of All " Issue.

                      Hanson is able to prove conclusively that Universal Salvation for ALL was the prevailing doctrine during the First Five Centuries of Christianity. From the Summary of conclusions on this Article, I wanted to make a couple of points in support of this Truth.

                     1) The principal ancient Universalists were Christian born and reared, and among the most scholarly and saintly of all the ancient saints.

                     2) The first complete presentation of Christianity as a system was by Origen(A.D. 220) and Universal Salvation was explicitly contained in it.
                         
                     3) The first comparatively complete systematic statement of Christian Doctrine ever given to the World was by Clement of Alexandria, A.D. 180, and universal salvation was one of the tenets.

                     4) Clement declares that all punishment, however severe, is purificatory; that even the " torments of the damned" are curative. Origen explains even Gehenna as signifying limited and curative punishment, and both, as all the other ancient Universalists, declare that "everlasting" (aionion) punishment, is consonant with universal salvation.

                     5) Not a single creed for five hundred years expresses any idea contrary to universal restoration, or in favor of endless punishment.

                  In Conclusion: These were just some of the points expressed by John Wesley Hanson. I wonder how many so-called learned Theologians of our modern times are aware of this and if they are, how do they reconcile their teachings with such conclusive proof in favor of the Eventual Salvation for ALL. Also, I might add, of the six major theological schools of the first three centuries, four of them taught Universal Salvation, one taught Annihilation and one taught Eternal Torment(Rome).

                  Looking forward to your comments, Brothers and Sisters, maybe expressing some information, as to how they justify all of this, with such proof available, prior to my arrival at this Site, this article was, one of the clinchers for me.

                              Your Brother in Christ, Samson.
                     

[chuckt]

greetings!

actually both schools of thought were in exsistence, that of eternal seperation from God and universal salvation, and these worshiped side by side.

between 3rd and 5th century, alot happened, and at the 5th councel the ""church"" made universal salvation heresy. we can thank  constatine and augustine for this, but alas all in all it was Gods will for this to happen.

more info upon request.

blessings

chuckt

[rjsurfs]

I wonder how many so-called learned Theologians of our modern times are aware of this and if they are, how do they reconcile their teachings with such conclusive proof in favor of the Eventual Salvation for ALL.

How did the so-called theologians of ancient times reconcile their teachings that did not consider judgement and the love of God when presented by the giver of Truth himself?

[lilitalienboi16]

Yep great stuff. Theirs a few good sites online that preserve this information for you if you google the history of it. It's interesting read and only furthermore confirms the truth in my heart!

God bless,

Alex

[Samson]

Yep great stuff. Theirs a few good sites online that preserve this information for you if you google the history of it. It's interesting read and only furthermore confirms the truth in my heart!

God bless,

Alex

              Hello Alex,

                                 Thats' precisely my point, that is why I was wondering if anyone at this Site knew of any modern day Theologians and/or Bible Scholars that know that Universal Salvation had such a great support from many learned Christian thinkers of the Early Centuries, but still teach Eternal Torment, even though they know for a fact its' definitely wrong, especially with all the evidence available. It's one thing to teach something that's wrong unknowingly, but far worse when you know better and proceed to teach the falsehood.

                               Any information or thoughts on this, Your Brother, Samson.

[lilitalienboi16]

Yep great stuff. Theirs a few good sites online that preserve this information for you if you google the history of it. It's interesting read and only furthermore confirms the truth in my heart!

God bless,

Alex

              Hello Alex,

                                 Thats' precisely my point, that is why I was wondering if anyone at this Site knew of any modern day Theologians and/or Bible Scholars that know that Universal Salvation had such a great support from many learned Christian thinkers of the Early Centuries, but still teach Eternal Torment, even though they know for a fact its' definitely wrong, especially with all the evidence available. It's one thing to teach something that's wrong unknowingly, but far worse when you know better and proceed to teach the falsehood.

                               Any information or thoughts on this, Your Brother, Samson.

I had one christian i debated with who admited that the information you presented above [which i presented to him in more detail] was infact TRUE. Yet he still could not come to believe in the Salvation of all. This same christian person i believe studied at a bible school and got a degree there. So it appears as though they are aware of this information, do they share it with there students at bible schools and theology schools? I don't know, but there are people who when faced with it, cannot deny it. If they have any intellectual honosty in them [which this christian that i debated with had] they will not deny it but must face the facts.

So my point is.. it's a myster to me, but there are christians who seem to be aware of it. I think for the mostpart though the masses are not. Do the leaders know? Perhaps? I think it would be foolish to think they had never come across it atleast ONCE in there life, although some might very well have never heard of it and lead the blind, as they are blinded to this truth as well.

God bless,

Alex

[rk12201960]

Hi Samson and to all.

Yeah very deep stuff here.
Good points. I guess its the horse thing you know bring it to water,,,etc

I lost the forum connection so I went and watched Rays talk on How Hard is Getting Saved.
I remember him talking about how only the Few would understand the Scriptures in the way it was,is and going to be given.

This just backs up the Scriptures in that, How can they not see this even after admitting that the facts that were brought out are true.
Who can stand against God? They are not allowed to see it.

This is prophesy being brought to light.

Fantastic topic along with the comments.
Peace
Randy

[dewey]

hey randy , dewey here ,just wanted to say something about , how hard is getting saved? The other day I had to have some blood work done , at 2 or 3  in the morning I woke up thinking about what article of pastor Smith's writings about God to bring with me to read while I was waiting to see the doctor.  I decided I would take the 12 truths to understanding his word, but for some reason, my heart kept telling me to take how hard is getting saved and I kept saying, Lord, I've read that one a hundred times and I've only read the 12 truths 10 or 15 times.  I know what I want to read while I'm waiting.  So I took 12 truths out with me to warm up the truck and left getting saved on the kitchen table.  As I started to leave after the truck was warmed up, something provoked me to take the getting saved article with me (what could that have been?)  Got to the doctor's office after reading 4 or 5 of the many pages that I had printed on that subject a lady came out and said Dewey the doctor's ready to see you.  I took and threw the paper on the seat beside me as instructed by God.  The receptionist says Dewey is that your paper?  And I said "not anymore".  When I left from talking with the doctor, it was gone.  Just wanted to share it with you Randy.  May not mean nothing, then again.........

love ya,

dewey

[Martinez]

I personally would take whatever Oregon said with a grain of salt.

He had some pretty strange idea's and believed some pretty stupid doctrines like the trinity, etc.

[gmik]

This topic is how I eventually "found" Ray's site.  I felt this hunger to know some of the earliest church fathers.  So I just googled church history and started reading.  Wow.  What an eye opener to me was how "off" they got only after a few years (altho Paul alluded to them).  Then to see how Rome just sorta "took"over.  I did love Origen and Gregory.  They may have not had all the knowledge but boy they were willing to die for it!!!

[Deborah-Leigh]

It is all in the Plan of God. The deception. The tears Paul shed when he warned that he saw terrible corruption coming into the Church. The darkness that would prevail when Christ returned and found little faith.

The few are really the few from each generation. The many are the vessels reserved for destruction who will be restored and saved through God's Mercy.

It is the brilliant Plan of God ensuring that no flesh shall glory in His Presence. No human intelligence will outsmart God and no human understanding knows the depths and thoughts of God reserved entirely for His Son Jesus Christ and to whom He decides He will reveal His Mind and Spirit through repentance as we see ourselves for what we really are. Nothing, naked, wretched and blind, without HIM.
 
Maybe the "Church" founding fathers did see the end result that all would be saved. That surely would have been encouragement for them to endure and spiritually prosper in following Christ I think. I hope so for their sake.

Peace be to you

Arcturus