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[fstamp]

In one of Ray's articles he quotes a verse from scripture that puts to rest the whole concept of internal torment in hell, but I cannot find it.   Any help would be much appreciated. 



Thanks, Fstamp

[AK4]

There's plenty heres one

Revelation 20:11-15
11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

If hades is hell and death and hades are thrown into the lake of fire and the lake of fire is the second death  and ....

1Co 15:26 - Show Context
The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
 

then they have nothing to stand on when it comes to eternal torment

Hope this helps

Anthony


 

[musicman]

Yeah, I think I remember.

It's God . . . . .. . .

No, wait a minute.


God is . . . la. . . . . . . .



No, that's not it.




God is la lo. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .





Oh right.




God is love!!!

[AK4]

Also if they want to say that gehenna is hell too,  Which then theyll probably say "well it says that it says everlasting hell fire".

You got 3 routes you can go-- either prove everlasting is aionis and it means age lasting(the hardest way).  Ask them does God lie and is all scripture by divine inspiration (harder way) or stay with the subject (the easiest way)---hell, no matter what word you want to translate it from, hades or gehenna, they will still have to come back to your original statement....

Rev 14 Then death and Hades(hell/gehenna) were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Then from there youll probably have to prove everlasting is aionis.  But i say stick with that and then you control the conversation by going into Does God lie and verses like 1 Tim 2:4 and 1 Tim 4:10. 

Read what Ray put in Foundational Truths and if you apply that then you cant be cornered.  CONTROL THE CONVERSATION.  That is the key.

Hope this helps,

Anthony

[AK4]

Also if they want to say that gehenna is hell too,  Which then theyll probably say "well it says that it says everlasting hell fire".

You got 3 routes you can go-- either prove everlasting is aionis and it means age lasting(the hardest way).  Ask them does God lie and is all scripture by divine inspiration (harder way) or stay with the subject (the easiest way)---hell, no matter what word you want to translate it from, hades or gehenna, they will still have to come back to your original statement....

Rev 14 Then death and Hades(hell/gehenna) were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

If hades is hell/gehenna and death and hades are thrown into the lake of fire and the lake of fire is the second death  and ....

1Co 15:26 - Show Context
The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
  ---oops i forgot this part in the last post

then they have nothing to stand on when it comes to eternal torment or anything that is associated with the "christain hell".

Then from there youll probably have to prove everlasting is aionis.  But i say stick with the hell issue and then you control the conversation by going into Does God lie and verses like 1 Tim 2:4 and 1 Tim 4:10. 



Read what Ray put in Foundational Truths and if you apply that then you cant be cornered.  CONTROL THE CONVERSATION.  That is the key.

Hope this helps,

Anthony

[cjwood]

Yeah, I think I remember.

It's God . . . . .. . .

No, wait a minute.


God is . . . la. . . . . . . .



No, that's not it.




God is la lo. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .





Oh right.




God is love!!!

i truly enjoy your sense of humor musicman  . you always can make me laugh. there are indeed so many scriptures that shut down the whole eternal torment yadayada, but the shortest most simple verse that "God is love" speaks volumes, if only the church had ears to hear.

claudia

[Heidi]

..... but the shortest most simple verse that "God is love" speaks volumes, if only the church had ears to hear.

Amen to that!

Heidi
PS I also enjoy your sense of humor musicman 

[Samson]

In one of Ray's articles he quotes a verse from scripture that puts to rest the whole concept of internal torment in hell, but I cannot find it.   Any help would be much appreciated. 



Thanks, Fstamp

Hi Foodstamp,

                       Internal Torment, We all receive internal torment,  ; just messing with you Fstamp. Hopefully I won't receive any internal torment at work today.

                       On a more serious note, I was reading Ray's article: Is God a Trinity or an expanding family last night at work. He made a point that whenever the Churches or someone starts with a Word or Phrase that isn't even in the Bible, like Trinity or Eternal Torment, they have to create a Theory or Premise about that word in order to try and prove it. The word Torment isn't the same as Torture and I never read a phrase that Say's Eternal Torment in the Bible. The point is that whenever these Bible Scholars try to create a Doctrine based on a phrase or Word that isn't even in the Bible in the first place, they come up with definitions that include high sounding gobbledygook to explain their Doctrines, like some of there definitions of The Trinity.

                                           Just something to ponder about.

                                              Kind Regards, Samson.

[David]

1 Timothy 4:10 is one that Ray uses a lot.
There's very little the hell fire preacher can do with that scripture other than contradict it or ignore it.
10For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

The last part of the sentence bookends this scripture as tight as you can get, because of "specially of those that believe", therefore it leaves no one out.
Read with the preceding verse and verse 11 it not only proves God will save ALL of mankind, but it makes it a flat out commandment that people MUST accept this verse AND teach it.

9This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.
10For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
11These things command and teach.

I've had Christians that would try to reason these verses away tell mew that verse 11 precedes verse 12 and on, and has nothing to do with verse 9 and 10. It is of course a lie. Every one of the reference Bibles I have has verse numbers in bold print where a new subject is started in a chapter. Guess what? They all have verse 12 in bold print. Verse 11 footnotes and bookends its previous verses. We are to command and teach that God is the savior of all men, especially those that believe.
David

[AK4]

David,

That is some keen observance their buddy!  Its a commandment that we teach this also.  Good eye.

Anthony

[aqrinc]

1 Timothy 4: 9 -11

9-This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.
10-For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
11-These things command and teach.


Now that is A Commandment i can and will preach all Day to everyone that has an ear.
Isn't it funny how God contradicts the lying preachers and teachers. BTW please pray
with me that my (Boss) come out of hageeland. We were both caught in that and other
previous synagouges of Satan and now She gets really ticked off at me when i bring up
Ray or Bible Truths. She thinks i went off the deep end and joined a Cult because i am
now Happy that All Men (Humanity) WILL BE SAVED. PRAISE and GLORY and HONOR To
GOD and JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD and SAVIOUR. Sorry for shouting so much but i am
so Happy i could shout it from the Rooftop but my neighbors may call the Cops.

[AK4]

Hey Aqrinc,

Has your wife read any of Rays papers?

[chuckt]

There's plenty heres one

Revelation 20:11-15
11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

If hades is hell and death and hades are thrown into the lake of fire and the lake of fire is the second death  and ....

1Co 15:26 - Show Context
The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
 

then they have nothing to stand on when it comes to eternal torment

Hope this helps

Anthony


 

Greetings inn Christ AK.

yes good verses but i run up against many who say  death being destroyed ISNT the second death and that the second death IS eternal torment.......go figure 

yesterday someone asked me if hitler is saved  i said we will see, but you beleive the six million jews he killed are in hell so why bring up hitler 


when  these ""christians"" bring up hitler it opens a door for truth and they will gnash and wail against you.

Praise GOD.

peace
euty

tell me are the 6 million jew he killed saved? if they are not saved why the big deal about hitler.

It amazes me how christians love to bring up hitler who killed millions and say how bad he is, yet their god is tormenting those same people he killed for all eternity

[AK4]

yes good verses but i run up against many who say  death being destroyed ISNT the second death and that the second death IS eternal torment.......go figure 

Hi euty,

Hit em with this verse

Ho 13:14
I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes.

As far as their replies to you, I ask, DID they hear you?  They contradict the very scriptures you just gave them.

Great analogy too there about hiltler. 

Keep at em in Jesus,

Anthony

[aqrinc]

Hey Aqrinc,

Has your wife read any of Rays papers?

No and so far refuses to do so, i think i will edit these post about her so when
she does learn i can still survive her wrath if no one here sell's me out. LOL.

[musicman]

Uh oh!!!

If anyone quotes what you said in a reply, you won't be able to edit it out.



AAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaauuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!

Be afraid!!!


Be very afraid!!!

[aqrinc]

I have been quoted at least twice, woe is me. Well hope she will be merciful.
On another matter, has anyone read Richard Dawkins or Victor J Stenger, they
seem to be 2 of the great Athiest Scientist and go to great length to disprove
the existence of God. Based on the many years and different areas of historical
and Biblical History research i have found and read i think they are foolish and
extremely Ignorant or flat out Lying to themselves and their readers who are
legion and very effusive in their praise of these mockers.

Oops way off the subject, wanted to say that i think i know what Ray means
about Praying in the Right way. God does answer Prayers.

[lilitalienboi16]

The Word of God utterly destroying the heresy that is eternal torment;

Reconciliation Scriptures - for ALL (repeated from a prior thread/ post).
________________________________________

1. 1Tim 2:4-God will have all to be saved - Can His will be thwarted?
2. 1Tim 2:4-God desires all to come to the knowledge of truth - Will His desire come to pass, or is it a WEAK WISH?
3. 1Tim 2:6-Salvation of all is…testified in due time - Are we judging God before due time?
4. Jn 12:47-Jesus came to save all - Will He succeed or FAIL?
5. Eph 1:11-God works all after the counsel of His will - Can our will overcome His?
6. Jn 4:42-Jesus is Savior of the world - Can He be Savior of all, without saving all?
7. 1Jn 4:14-Jesus is Savior of the world - Why don't we BELIEVE it?
8. Jn 12:32-Jesus will draw all mankind unto Himself - To burn or to love?
9. Col 1:16-By Him all were created - Will He lose a part of His creation?
10. Rm 5:15-21-In Adam all condemned, in Christ all live - The same ALL?
11. 1Cor 15:22-In Adam all die, in Christ all live - Again, the same ALL?
12. Eph 1:10-All come into Him at the fulness of times - Are YOU tired of seeing the word, ALL?
13. Phil 2:9-11-Every tongue shall confess Jesus is Lord - Will the Holy Spirit be given to everyone?
14. 1Cor 12:3-Cannot confess except by Holy Spirit - See what I mean?
15. Rm 11:26-All Israel will be saved - But most Jews don't believe yet!
16. Acts 3:20, 21-Restitution of all - How plain can you get?
17. Luke 2:10-Jesus will be joy to all people - Is there joy in Satan’s "hell"?
18. Heb 8:11, 12-All will know God - How long will you tarry, O Lord?
19. Eph 2:7-His grace shown in the ages to come - Have we judged Him before the coming age?
20. Titus 2:11-Grace has appeared to all - Experientially or Prophetically?
21. Rm 8:19-21-Creation set at liberty - How much of creation? After those who have the firstfruits of the spirit?
22. Col 1:20-All reconciled unto God - There's that word "ALL" again.
23. 1Cor 4:5-All will have praise of God - What for?
24. Jms 5:11-End of the Lord is full of mercy - Is eternal "hell" merciful?
25. Rev 15:4-All nations worship when God's judgments are seen - Could His judgment be mercy?
26. Rm 11:32-All subject to unbelief, mercy on all - All?
27. Rm 11:36-All out of, through, and into Him - ALL into Him?
28. Eph 4:10-Jesus will fill all things - does this include "hell?"
29. Rev 5:13-All creation seen praising God - Including Satan? All creation!
30. 1Cor 15:28-God will be all in all - What does that mean?
31. Rev 21:4, 5-No more tears, all things made new - ALL made new or few? Are you crying still?
32. Jn 5:25-All dead who hear will live - How many will hear?
33. Jn 5:28-All in the grave will hear & come forth - How will the "righteous" Judge, judge?
34. 1 Cor 3:15-All saved so as by fire - How can FIRE save you?
35. Mk 9:49-Everyone shall be salted with fire - Including you?
36. Rm 11:15-Reconciliation of the world - Will fire save the inhabitants (world)?
37. 2Cor 5:15-Jesus died for ALL - Did He die in vain?
38. Jn 8:29-Jesus always does what pleases His Father - What pleases the Father? (1Tim 2:4)
39. Heb 1:2-Jesus is Heir of all things - Does "things" include people? YES.
40. Jn 17:2-Jesus gives eternal life to all that His Father gave Him - How many did the Father give Him?
41. Jn 3:35-The Father gave Him all things - (Repeated for emphasis) Study the word "things."
42. 1 Tim 4:9-11-Jesus is Savior of all - Can't seem to get away from that word "all."
43. Heb. 7:25-Jesus is able to save to the uttermost - How far is "uttermost?"
44. 1Cor 15:26-Last enemy, death, will be destroyed - In the "lake of fire" which is the "second" death. No more dying (Rev 21:4, Isa. 25:8 )?
45. Is 46:10-God will do all His pleasure - Does Old Testament agree with the New?
46. Gen 18:18-All families of the earth will be blessed - Here comes that word "all" again.
47. Dan 4:35-God's will done in heaven and earth - What can defeat His will?
48. Ps 66:3, 4-Enemies will submit to God - Can any stay rebellious?
49. Ps 90:3-God turns man to destruction, and then says return - How can one return from "destruction”? Humbled, bruised and ashamed?
50. Is 25:7-Will destroy veil spread over all nations - All nations?
51. Deut 32:39-He kills and makes alive - Kills to bring life?
52. Ps 33:15-God fashions all hearts - "All" hearts, including men like "Hitler"?
53. Prv 16:9-Man devises, God directs his steps - What about "free will"?
54. Prv 19:21-Man devises, but God's counsel stands - So much for "free will."
55. La 3:31, 32-God will not cast off forever - Why does He cast off in the first place?
56. Isa 2:2-All nations shall flow to the Lord's house - ALL nations?
57. Ps 86:9-All nations will worship Him - ALL nations!
58. Isa 45:23-All descendants of Israel justified - Including the wicked ones?
59. Ps 138:4-All kings will praise God - Are you catching on?
60. Ps 65:2-4-All flesh will come to God - That sounds wondrous.
61. Ps 72:18-God only does wondrous things - I wish we would BELIEVE that.
62. Isa 19:14, 15-Egypt & Assyria will be restored - Really?
63. Ezk 16:55-Sodom will be restored to former estate - Sounds impossible.
64. Jer 32:17-Nothing is too difficult for Him - Nothing? No, nothing!
65. Ps 22:27-All ends of the earth will turn to Him - For what purpose?
66. Ps 22:27-All families will worship before Him - Praise His name!
67. Ps 145:9-He is good to all - Including your worst enemies.
68. Ps 145:9-His mercies are over all his works - Let's start believing that.
69. Ps 145:14-He raises all who fall - Who hasn't sinned?
70. Ps 145:10-All His works will praise Him - For "eternal torment"?
71. Isa 25:6-Lord makes a feast for all people - And you are invited.
72. Jer 32:35-Never entered His mind to torture his children with fire.- This came from the carnal mind, NOT SPIRITUAL.
73. Jn 6:44-No one can come to Him unless He draws (drag) them. - You can't "choose" to follow Him, SELF-DETERMINATION.
74. Jn 12:32-I will draw all mankind unto Myself - Amen!
75. Ps 135:6-God does what pleases Him - If it PLEASES Him to SAVE ALL that He might be in all, are you upset?

PEOPLE ADD A LITTLE AND TAKE AWAY FROM THE WORD, TURN AN AGE INTO ETERNITY, REDUCE SALVATION TO JUST A FEW
AND DIMINISH GOD’S WILL TO NOTHING MORE THAN A WEAK DESIRE. ALL WILL NOT BE OVER-COMERS, BUT ALL WILL COME
TO THE THRONE OF HIS GRACE.


...in the presence of the Lamb (Rev.14:10).

On top of this, we can use God's given spirit unto us as a guide for thinking and understanding of His Word. Here are some simple arguments by use of the scriptures that utterly destroy such heresy.

Confessing Christ

For those of you who deny God will have all men to be saved (tim 2:3-4), what do these two verses mean to you?

1 Corinthians 12:3 "Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say[confess] that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost

So we can't confess Christ is Lord except if we have the Holy Ghost/Holy Spirit in us. Now here is my point.

Romans 14:11 "For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

Phil. 2:10-11 "That at the name of Jesus EVERY knee should bow, in heaven, and in earth, and under the earth; and that EVERY tongue should confess [‘That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God has raised Him from the dead, THOU SHALT BE SAVED, Rom. 10:9)] that Jesus Christ is Lord [‘Lord’ means ‘master’—acknowledging Christ as Master of their lives], to the glory of God the Father"

So God is saying every knee will bow, and every tongue will confess. So does that mean that everyone will be filled with the holy spirit at some point in time?

God be with you all,

Alex

Another simple argument;

Loving our Enemies?

Is not our Father in Heaven love?

"He that loveth not knoweth not God; for GOD IS LOVE." (1Jo 4:

This is quiet a powerful statement here. If you don’t love then you don’t know God.

Heres something to chew on and think about.

"But I say unto you, Love your enemies, " (Mat 5:44)

Jesus is teaching us to Love our enemies. What is the consequence of not loving our ENEMIES? We don’t know God!

"If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: He that loveth not knoweth not God;" (1Jo 4:20, 8 )

God calls you a liar if you don’t love even YOUR BROTHER! How much more of a liar are we then if we can’t love our enemies? God is NOT in us if we don’t love our enemies!

 "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." (Mat 5:48)

Christ also tells us God is perfect, and He tells us that God is love and that not loving, means that God is not in you! So if God does not Himself Love His enemies, then God is not God at all!

For to be perfect, God HAS TO BE love, and God said love also includes "LOVE THY ENEMIES." Anything less then that is NOT God or of God. To torture the ‘enemies’ of the cross in hell for all eternity is NOT love, no far from love it is, and would make God a contradicting, lying god. I assure you God is NOT a liar nor one to contradict Himself!

”If ye love me, keep my commandments.” (John 14:15)

Do you love God? Will you, like God, forgive your enemies or will you continue to believe that God will never for an eternity forgive His enemies? You can’t serve two masters, so whom do you serve? The God of love or the God of eternal damnation?

God bless,

Alex

Yet another one. Praise God for His Word!

All things Given

For those who deny that God will indeed save all men and blaspheme His name by preaching a doctrine of eternal damnation, let the Word of God like a fire devour all.

He that hath an ear let Him hear;

“And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.” (John 6:39)

Jesus assures us that nothing which is given to Him by the Father will He loose, but rather, raise it up at the last day!
Just what exactly was given to Jesus Christ by His Father?

“The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.” (John 3:35)

“Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God;” (John 3:13)

If Jesus will lose nothing that is given to Him, and all things are given to Him by His Father, than why do so many deny that those that are lost in this life, will forever be lost to the fires of a pagan hell? Clearly, the Word of God has spoken that all things are His and of these things, shall He loose none.

God bless,

Alex

Finally to end it all, this might help, this is a letter i wrote a friend a long time ago who was having a hard time understanding God's fire etc... I mean i wrote tthis a LONG time ago, atleast 3 years old. I quoted ray a few times but i put the whole thing together.

Perhaps this will help understand the weeping of gnashing and teeth.

"…cast into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth" (Matt. 13:42-43).

What Jesus is talking about is the SECOND DEATH. THE LAKE OF FIRE.

"…Let God be TRUE [Who says He "WILL save ALL MANKIND"], but every man a LIAR [who says He WILL NOT "save ALL MANKIND"]!

"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire" (Rev. 20:14-15) and "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death," (Rev. 21:.

So even death and hell[Hades/Shoel] will be cast into this Lake of fire. What is it? It is GOD. God is the FIRE. He will burn out all INPURITIES OUT OF EVERY SINGLE PERSON.

"Beloved, think it NOT STRANGE concerning the FIERY trial which is to try you, as though some STRANGE thing happened unto you" (I Pet. 4:12).

"I indeed baptize you with water unto REPENTANCE: but He that comes after me is mightier than I, Whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: He shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit, AND WITH FIRE" (Matt. 3:11).

"For EVERY ONE [sinner and saint] shall be salted with FIRE" (Mark 9:49).

That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perishes, though it [your faith] be TRIED IN THE FIRE, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ" (I Pet. 1:7).

"Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing you shall heap coals of FIRE on his head" (Rom. 12:20).

"But who may abide the day of His coming? And who shall stand when He appears? For He is like a refiner’s FIRE, and like fullers’ soap" (Malachi 3:2).

Remmember Matt, it said in the FURNACE OF FIRE there will be wailing and gnasshing of teeth. Look who is that Furnace, look at who IS THE FIRE.

"From above has He sent FIRE into my bones…" (Lamentations 1:13).

"Is not My word like as a FIRE? saith the Lord" (Jer. 23:29).

"For in My jealousy and in the FIRE of My wrath have I spoken" (Ezek. 38;19).

"…for all the earth shall be devoured with the FIRE of my jealousy" (Zeph. 3:.

What is this fire, what is this furnace, who is the REFINERS FIRE? WHO PURIFIES WITH BRIMSTONE AND FIRE? WHO REFINES SILVER INTO GOLD? OUR GOD. GOD IS THE CONSUMING FIRE,

"For our God is a CONSUMING FIRE!"(Heb. 12:29)!

But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap: (Malachi 3:2)

Zechariah sum's up for us the way in which God's Fire is used.

Zechariah 13:9 "And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God."

Is their a spiritual match for this message of Zechariah? That God's fire does indeed refine, try and dare i say.. SAVE? YES!!

"Every man’s work [including believers] shall be made manifest; for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed BY FIRE, and the FIRE shall try every man’s work of what sort it is. If any man’s work abide which he has built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED; YET SO AS BY FIRE" (I Cor. 3:13-15).

It is through this fire that saves in which ultimately God's elect also become the lake of fire!

"And of the angels He says, Who makes His angels spirits, and His ministers a flame of FIRE"(Heb. 1:7).

That is what the Fire does, right there for you.

And are non-believers judged differently from believers who are "revealed, tried, salted and baptized IN FIRE?" Just HOW are these non-believers judged in the book of Revelation? How are the "...fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars..." JUDGED? Answer: "... In the lake WHICH BURNS WITH FIRE ..." (Rev. 21:!

I hope you are starting to see a deeper SPIRITUAL understanding to what Gods FIRE is really about, and what the lake which burns with FIRE is all about.

God will and God bless,

Alex

"For to be carnally minded is DEATH; but to be spiritually minded is LIFE and peace" (Rom. 8:6).


That's the end of the letter.

I hope my post has helped some, if any.

God bless you all.

In Christ,

Alex

[Linny]

In regards to:
"yesterday someone asked me if hitler is saved   i said we will see, but you beleive the six million jews he killed are in hell so why bring up hitler" 

I was reading in Isaiah yesterday and came across this...
Is. 45:25 "In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justifed, and shall glory."
Is. 46:13 "I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry: and
I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory."


Lin

[fstamp]

There's plenty heres one

Revelation 20:11-15
11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.



If hades is hell and death and hades are thrown into the lake of fire and the lake of fire is the second death  and ....

1Co 15:26 - Show Context
The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
 

then they have nothing to stand on when it comes to eternal torment

Hope this helps

Anthony


 

This is what I was looking for. Thanks for all your help.



29 & 30. "I will RANSOM them from the power of the grave [Heb: sheol]; I will REDEEM them from death: O DEATH, I will be your plagues; O grave [Heb: sheol], I will be your destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes" (Hosea 13:14).
This verse all by itself destroys the whole eternal torture in fire theory. If sheol is "hell," then this verse plainly tells us that [1] God will "ransom" those who are in sheol. [2] God will be the plague of DEATH.[3] God tells us that sheol itself is to be "DESTROYED." And isn’t this exactly what we are told in Revelation 20:14 — "And DEATH and hell [Gk: hades/Heb: sheol] were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second DEATH."