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[EKnight]

I am reading Exposing the "Secret Rapture" and Ray talks about indignation vs. tribulation.  And the scriptures speak of a "day" or the "day" of indignation.  Is this day, like the "day of the Lord", a specific day or is this an ongoing wrath of God?

"Deaden, then, your members that are on the earth: prostitution, uncleanness, passion, evil desire and greed, which is idolatry, because of which the indignation of God is coming on the sons of stubbornness ..." (Col. 3:5-6).

"Let no one be seducing you with empty words, for because of these things the indignation of God is coming on the sons of stubbornness" (Eph. 5:6).

"Yet, in accord with your hardness and unrepentant heart you are hoarding for yourself indignation in the day of indignation and revelation of the just judgment of God ..." (Rom. 2:5).

"Progeny of vipers! Who intimates to you to be fleeing from the impending indignation?" (Matt. 3:7).

You see? It's like it is yet to be.

Eileen

[mharrell08]

I am reading Exposing the "Secret Rapture" and Ray talks about indignation vs. tribulation.  And the scriptures speak of a "day" or the "day" of indignation.  Is this day, like the "day of the Lord", a specific day or is this an ongoing wrath of God?

The day of the Lord and the day of God's wrath & indignation are one in the same...it has not begun yet. Everyone will know when it does...



Marques

[EKnight]

So when Christ returns to reign on earth, God's wrath begins?

Eileen

[aqrinc]

Hi Eileen,

Check out this, i just posted it in another thread by Arc.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,9895.msg83979.html#msg83979

george.

[mharrell08]

So when Christ returns to reign on earth, God's wrath begins?

Eileen

Yes...next to the Lake of Fire series, the Secret Rapture paper is probably Ray's most detailed study on the Day of the Lord (Christ's return).

Excerpt from 'Exposing Secret Rapture Theory' (http://bible-truths.com/rapture.htm):

PROOF FOR WHEN THE DAY OF THE LORD WILL COME

Let us be clear, that the "day of the Lord" is the time period of Christ’s return to this earth to punish Babylon the Great and to pour out His righteous indignation on her (and on those nations who follow and worship her) for her evil crimes of inhumanity and blasphemy. Here is the order of events (Mat. 24:29-30). It’s as simple as one, two, three:

"Immediately AFTER the affliction [great affliction, or great tribulation--ver. 29], of those days ...

"... the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not be giving her beams, and the stars shall be falling from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken ...

"And THEN shall appear the sign of the Son of Mankind in heaven, and then all the tribes of the land shall grieve, and they shall see the Son of Mankind coming on the clouds of heaven with power and much glory."

The "day of the Lord," the day that the Lord comes, clearly is "after" the great affliction, and "after" the heavenly signs. The book of Joel gives us a second confirmation:

"Alas! Alas! Alas for the day! For near is the DAY OF THE LORD.

And as devastation from Him Who-Suffices is it coming" (Joel 1:15).

"For coming is the DAY OF THE LORD! A day of darkness and gloominess. A day of clouds and murkiness" (Joel 2:2).

"The heavens quake, The sun and the moon are somber, and the stars gather in their brightness ... before His army [Rev. 19:11] (Joel 2:10) ...

"And He will spare His people" (2:18).

"And I will give MIRACLES IN THE HEAVENS above, And signs on the earth, Blood and fire and pillars of smoke, The sun shall be turned to darkness, And the moon to blood (2:30-31), BEFORE the coming of the DAY OF THE LORD, the great and fearful day" (2:30-31).

So we have this event neatly book-ended with references to the "great affliction" and the "heavenly signs." Matt. 24:29 clearly tells us that "immediately AFTER" the great affliction or tribulation of those days, the signs in the sun, moon and stars occur, followed by the return of Christ--the day of the Lord. And Joel 2:31 clearly tells us that the signs in the heavens occur "BEFORE" the coming of the day of the Lord. As to the chronology of these grand events, there can be no honest dispute--the day of the Lord does not include the great tribulation, but comes after the great tribulation, and after the heavenly signs.


Hope this helps,

Marques

[EKnight]

Marques.

Yes, this helps.  I feel stupid  because I started re-reading this a while ago (like a month). I either get distracted or latch onto something else. I was mid-way through when I posted this question.  I apparently forgot what I read or I didn't get to the part you just posted here.

I hope this thread is at least beneficial to others as well as myself. 

Eileen

[EKnight]

George,

You raise another question.  "the man of lawlessness, the son of destruction."? Is this all men or a man?

Eileen

[mharrell08]

Marques.

Yes, this helps.  I feel stupid  because I started re-reading this a while ago (like a month). I either get distracted or latch onto something else. I was mid-way through when I posted this question.  I apparently forgot what I read or I didn't get to the part you just posted here.

I hope this thread is at least beneficial to others as well as myself. 

Eileen

No need to feel stupid Eileen...I forget stuff all the time too, no big deal. 

And that 'Secret Rapture' paper is pretty in depth too...the first time I read it, I couldn't 'get it' as I was only thinking 'Man, how long is this paper??'  Now, I can't get enough.


Marques

[mharrell08]

George,

You raise another question.  "the man of lawlessness, the son of destruction."? Is this all men or a man?

Eileen

The man of lawlessness, the son of destruction, the man of sin, the beast are all one in the same...the Lake of Fire paper #14 'The Beast Within' talks about this more in depth. Below is an section from the paper.


Excerpt from Lake of Fire #14 (http://bible-truths.com/lake14.html):

THE BEAST WITHIN / THE MAN OF SIN / THE SON OF PERDITION

I showed from the Scriptures in our last installment that we only become aware of the beast when we are standing on the "sand of the sea." AFTER our spiritual house built upon spiritual sand FALLS DOWN, and WE fall down. And this is precisely why Paul tells us that the

"…day of Christ… shall not come [to US] except there come a FALLING AWAY FIRST…" (II Thes. 2:1-2).

This "fall" by the way is not a little slip or a little stumble. It is a complete and total SPIRITUAL FALL! We all come to Christ with a simple childlike innocence. But … BUT, once we are in "the church of our choice," we start to get educated in the ways of Christendom. We learn of many rules based on the unscriptural traditions of men. We delight in many of these rules and traditions (sometimes not all of them), and before we know it, our new religion sooner or later TAKES US RIGHT BACK INTO THE WORLD that we thought we came out of.


Hope this helps,

Marques

[aqrinc]

George,

You raise another question.  "the man of lawlessness, the son of destruction."? Is this all men or a man?

Eileen

Short answer; Thats our personal beast within each of us.

Long answer: marques has supplied it; LOF #14.

george.

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hi Eileen

THE BEAST WITHIN / THE MAN OF SIN / THE SON OF PERDITION/THE 666/THE ANTI CHRIST is all humankind. It is everyone. It is you and I and it was, is and will be until God will be all in all and every knee shall bow and know the Truth setting freedom of the Mind and Spirit of Christ.

We are encouraged that the world shall learn the righteousness of God when His Judgements are in the earth.

Isa 56 : 1 Thus says the Lord: Keep justice, do and use righteousness for My salvation is soon to come and My Righteousness to be revealed. Isa 62:1 Matt 3 : 2  Luke 21 : 31  Rom 13 : 11,12

Gods Plan and Purpose of God shall be done. We know this.  Gods Will that all shall change, repent, be set right, be taught, healed and corrected and made in conformity to the Image of God's Son Jesus Christ, shall be accomplished.

There are a few that are now being prepared to reign with Christ when He returns. I believe that one of these few is Ray Smith. Ray's tribulations are  not in vain but I believe are preparing Ray to enter the Kingdom of God like no other I know of on earth today.

God bless you Ray and all those who hear, value and appreciate Gods voice and council through you.

Arc

[EKnight]

Just one more question (I think).  I have seen this scripture (below) quoted over and over and over here at BT so I figure it must be very important.  The problem is, I don't fully understand it and since Arc mentioned it again, I need to ask.

Isa_26:9 My soul yearns for you in the night; my spirit within me earnestly seeks you. For when your judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world learn righteousness.

What is this saying, exactly?

Eileen

[mharrell08]

Just one more question (I think).  I have seen this scripture (below) quoted over and over and over here at BT so I figure it must be very important.  The problem is, I don't fully understand it and since Arc mentioned it again, I need to ask.

Isa_26:9 My soul yearns for you in the night; my spirit within me earnestly seeks you. For when your judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world learn righteousness.

What is this saying, exactly?

Eileen

Hello Eileen,

Judgment brings about righteousness and obedience to the Word of God...to the few that God is judging now as well as to the many in the Great White Throne Judgment in the next age.

Here is an excerpt from the Sept '07 bible study 'Does All mean All' (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=5605.0):

I love this scripture in Isaiah.

Isaiah 26:9  “…for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn (Rotherham and Young both say: “will HAVE learned) righteousness.

When the judgment are fully in the world, everyone ‘will have’ learned, because that is the end results of judgment.  It’s not the beginning results, because there is a process.  He’s coming to judge the world, that’s a process.  But when it’s finally done and His judgments are now in the whole world, all the inhabitants of the world will have learned righteousness.  It’s a done deal.  When every human being will have learned righteousness, that’s this way of life, guess what?  You’ll be saved. 

Yet how many hate this scripture.  I’ve had people write me back, when they saw that I put this someplace in one of my papers;  “…for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will have learned righteousness.  And they say, ‘Ray read the next verse.’

Isa 26:10  Let favor be showed to the wicked, yet will he not learn righteousness;

Then they say, 'there you go Ray, the wicked won’t learn righteousness, you can show them favor but they won’t learn.’  Well I know that.  That doesn’t contradict the verse above it, they just think it does.  They want it to contradict, but it doesn’t. 

It doesn’t contradict any more than when God says He will rain upon the just and the unjust, (Matt 5:45).  That by raining upon the unjust, He is showing that being unjust is a good thing with God, because if you are unjust to Him, He will be just to you.  He will reward you for being unjust?  That nonsense. 

It just shows that He is not enforcing His judgment now.  Yea you can show favor to the wicked, he’ll still be wicked, he won’t respond.  Christ says, if he slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other cheek.  Well guess what?  There would be plenty of people that would slap the other cheek too.  Yea you can show favor and they won’t respond, but when His judgments are in the whole earth, guess what?  Then they will respond, yes they will.


Hope this helps,

Marques

[EKnight]

All this time I guess I was reading the word "judgments" as "a people" rather than, God's judgments. 

Eileen