free will

[ez2u]

One of my sons had a tee- shirt he wore to work it was given to us by Lawn Boy
  on the tee shirt was the words  " The power to do Right"  very impressive.

What i have to ask you is this   Does God have free Will?
I see things in dimensions.  Will we have free will we we are are His fullness?
peggy

[Marky Mark]

Email to Ray.Hope it helps.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2462.0.html

Dear Harry:  Are we better than our own LORD?

Joh 14:10 "Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. "

God be with you,
Ray




Peace...Mark

[mharrell08]

One of my sons had a tee- shirt he wore to work it was given to us by Lawn Boy
  on the tee shirt was the words  " The power to do Right"  very impressive.

What i have to ask you is this   Does God have free Will?
I see things in dimensions.  Will we have free will we we are are His fullness?
peggy

FYI: Great thread on this discussion from October 2008 'Does God have free will' : http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,8451.0.html


Hope this helps,

Marques

[daywalker]

Hello Peggy,

People can get very confused with this topic, because most are not aware of what "free will" actually means. It is used very loosely both by the Secular World and the Church. As long as you stick to the true definition of "free will", then the answer is simple...

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition:

Free Will:

1.  The ability or discretion to choose; free choice
2. The power of making free choices that are unconstrained by external circumstances or by an agency such as fate or divine will.

Does God make "free choices"? Does He make "choices that are unconstrained by external circumstances or by an agency such as fate or divine will"?  [hint: That last part should make it obvious.]

Does God ever do anything against His Own Will?

Ephesians 1:11 in Him in Whom our lot was cast also, being designated beforehand according to the purpose of the One Who is operating ALL in accord with the counsel of His will


No. The answer is "no". God does not have a "free" will.


God Be With You,

Daywalker. 

[Dennis Vogel]

The way some people use "free will" implies God changes His mind.

God never needs to change His mind.

[musicman]

It's a false doctrine.  It would be like a churchaholic asking if god could send people to hell.  Well, there is no such thing as hell so no, He couldn't.  Does God have a christian false doctrine as a part of His nature?  No.  Does God have the ability to go against His own nature?  I suppose.  But that wouldn't mean He has free will.  Can God make Himself hate the world?  Can God make Himself a lyer?  Can God make Himself vane and stupid like we humans?  No, no and no.  God does not have a free will.

[ez2u]

after reading the replies  what was i thinking?
thanks people  my mind  wasn't thinking right 
maybe I have been studying too much and the brain
was scramble. thanks again 

[Marky Mark]

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5146.msg40669.html#msg40669

Dear Dean:  Regarding the Forum's question as to whether God has a free will or not:

"Free will" is not a topic of Scripture. Humanity absolutely does not have a free will/free choice disposition. All thoughts and actions have a cause. God, however, is the First Cause. God answers to no one and no one dictates or causes God to think or do anything--all Protestant and Catholic prayers to the contrary included.  However, we are told in the Scriptures who "God cannot lie," for example or why God never "changes his mind."  This is a governing factor to God's disposition, but it is not an outside force. Here is how God thinks and operates everything in the universe:

"In Whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of Him Who works [operates] ALL THINGS AFTER THE  C-O-U-N-S-E-L  OF  H-I-S   O-W-N  W-I-L-L"  (Eph. 1:11).

God be with you,
Ray



Peace...Mark

 

[indianabob]

Not to be disagreeing with any of the helpful comments posted so far, but

IN contrast to our limited will with all choices constrained by circumstances and by how we are made to function.
It would seem that God at least HAD free will to devise and create the Universe as we see it today.
So, did God make choices about how the laws of physics would interact?
Did God decide without any outside force compelling Him, how the biological systems would function?

In this restricted discussion I would think it may be helpful to consider that option.

We certainly do not have a will that is free from outside influence.
God on the other hand would be the only ONE having choices FREE from outside constraints...

I suppose that the question then becomes; when did God's plan for developing a family come together?
Obeying the counsel of His own will is correct, so did God always have that finalized plan or did God devise it according to the counsel of His own will?

The Bible says that "my Father works and I work" so does that include a preparation for creation?
John 5:17

I know that we believe that God has always existed and has no beginning in time, but the thoughts still enter my mind and inquiring minds want to know.

Anyone please comment or offer correction, 
thanks, Bob

[aqrinc]

For those inquiring minds, here is some information from Nashville 08 By Ray. This should provide some food for thought or more discussion after a good read.

Nashville Conference 08 - Where Did God Get Knowledge? audio #10 - video #7

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,8831.msg73653.html#msg73653

Excerpt from: Where Did God Get Knowledge ?

I asked the question;  Did God have a master plan when He created the universe?  Did He have something in mind?  Where did that come from?  It must have been something He always had in mind. 

It's like He said: 'I always wanted to build the universe.' 

And you say:  Really for how long?

'Oh I always dreamt that way.'

Yea?

'Yea.' 

Do you think you will ever do it?

'Ahh, maybe someday.'

[laugher]  Seriously, follow me.

Well is it a good plan.

'Oh yea, it's a good plan.'

Well why don't you do it now?

'Well okay maybe I will do it now.'

Did God always have this plan?  You see we get this thing that God has always been everything that He is.  God says He doesn't change.  It doesn't say that He says He has all knowledge.  Oh yea, well where did He get it?  I don't doubt that God has all knowledge, but where did He get it?  'Well He always had it.'  Do you have chapter and verse on that? 

[Comment: Is, was and always will be]  Jesus said that.  But He was a created being.  He came out from the Father.  But now that He did, "He is," He's alive today, resurrected from the dead.  "He was," He was the one who created everything, He was the one that died for the sins of man and "He always will be."  That's true.  But even if you were to say that of the Father, that He is and was and always will be, there is still no statement that He always was what He is.

Does God learn?  You say, 'Ray it is sacrilege to talk like that.'  Well I'm sorry, but I think about this and I've talked to God about stuff like this and I don't believe that I'm sacrilege at all.  I honor God, I worship God. 

Coming in here to learn this stuff this is worship.  Waving your hands and falling over backwards and foaming at the mouth, that's not worship.  Learning the truths of God and saying, 'I believe that and I can see that, this is wise, it is wisdom and this will help me be the kind of person that God wants.'  That is worship.  You believe and you obey God, that's worship.


                                    Does God Learn ?
george.

[hillsbororiver]

This topic is certainly one that my puny mind with its limited vocabulary cannot even offer an opinion on. I mean to try and put into words the depth, wisdom and power of God Almighty and what He might have been thinking or perhaps being limited in some way or another (what could possibly limit Him unless it was Him so if He is only limited by His own Self is He actually limited?).

That's just me, I am still stuck by the old question;

"Can God create a rock so big and heavy even He can't lift it? 



Peace,

Joe

[Akira329]

It boggles my mind to think that God had a plan.
I'm assuming here:
He knew what the end would be or he knew what end he wanted to accomplish.
His wisdom comes from the means in which to accomplish that end.
I guess you could say only God's end justify his means.
I hope I'm making sense.

I agree Joe but I think his wisdom wouldn't allow it! That sounds silly too!
Why would he create such a rock?
Why wouldn't he create such a rock?
In all his wisdom wouldn't he eventually create a means in which to lift it?

Antaiwan

[musicman]

Well, the rock would be in space where there is no gravity anyway, then I suppose He would be able to lift infinate weight.  Although to lift, one must be standing on a platform that can support the weight lifted.  Such a platform would have to be quite massive.  So there would be gravity.  But can't God just take the gravity away and lift with all of his might?  Again, it wouldn't take any strength if there is no gravity and there is a platform to push off of.  But then, the rock will just go up and never come down.  And there's no way god can construct a platform on the other side of the rock which is now going up.  god would have to stand upside down to stop it or it would go up and up forever.  And he hates standing upside down.  Besides, he'd just fall because in his infinate wisdom he did away with gravity.  So god has limits.  he can't do things that r that stupid.

[cjwood]

he can't do things that r that stupid.

ok musicman, i was gonna reply "our musicman has been sipping the ole kool-aid again, BUT, your last statemnt was actually one of the sanest things you've ever said. so, if it took kool-aid to bring about that bit of wisdom, i say drink up my brother!

claudia

[Beloved]

Isa 46:10  Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

God is never limited, Musicman He doe not have to even deal with a rock...he just has to speak the Word that starts the process...He made the Laws for this universe....start a chain reaction and the rock will be formed. All things physical can be changed  In the beginning He created the heaven and earth...from there everything was then formed.

Isa 55:8  For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD

Mankind are like children: just because they think they see something, they assume they can do something just as well and sometimes better.

Ecc 12:8 Vanity of vanities, saith the preacher; all is vanity.

beloved

[Ninny]

Claudia, someday everyone may realize that our musicman does have a very good mind under all that chaos!!  'nuff said!
Kathy

[Astrapho]

he can't do things that r that stupid.

The best answer to that ridiculous little paradox.

[daywalker]

he can't do things that r that stupid.

The best answer to that ridiculous little paradox.

I second that! Haha.

[Craig]

My opinion is that as far as puny man goes, it is obvious that we have no free will.  To try and box God into the same notion is ridiculous.  God's ways are not our ways and we should not try to attribute our knowledge and notions to God.

Craig

[mharrell08]

Our God and Saviour, testifying about Himself (just a few of many):

Ps 145:17  The LORD is righteous in all his ways, and holy in all his works.

James 1:17  Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

Malachi 3:6  For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Heb 13:8  Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever ['express image of the Father' (2 Cor 4:4, Col 1:15)]

Eph 1:11  In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:


I don't believe it is 'boxing God in' when we believe and trust what He tells us.

God tells us He is inherently Good, Righteous, Holy, All-Sovereign, Love, Patient & Longsuffering, Perfect, etc...we could never list all the greatness and magnitude of our loving Father in Heaven, nor His Faithful Son and our Elder Brother, Jesus. And one other very important attribute we are told is God never changes, EVER.

But this does not mean God does not DO anything...All is of God, and He is the cause of all. He is changing all of us from our natural, carnal state to the image of His wonderful Son. That is a great, wonderful change in itself.

But who and what God is, that is what God tells us DOES NOT CHANGE. He was always Love, is Love, and will never stop being Love (is/was/will be).

Is He 'bound' by this? Is He 'free' to be any other way? Is He 'free' to be evil instead of Good...is He 'free' to be hate instead of Love?

This is why 'free will' is an absolute myth...it attempts to give leeway that God will change from who and what He is...from Love & Perfection to 'whatever He frees Himself to be'.

But God Himself stops all of that by stating that He, Himself, works all through the counsel of His Will...that doesn't just mean His plan & intention, but who & what He is, as His plan & intention is a direct result of who & what He is...a Patient, Loving God who is Holy & Righteous in all His doing.

Remember what He told Moses: God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM [Exodus 3:14]. Is He 'free' to be otherwise?

If He is 'free' to be otherwise, then He isn't who He says He is all throughout His own Word.


Marques