> General Discussions
Despising the Scriptures
aqrinc:
Arc & AK4,
Great pondering, those Scriptures are right on point about why more wisdom bring grief & sorrow. Knowing what must happen yet not able to communicate this to everyone around, is both humbling and cause for wonder at what our Creator GOD And our Lord Jesus Christ are doing for all humanity.
The verses below also show that when one is given wisdom; you should not hide it, but instead let it shine forth. By doing this we are bound to be shot at from all sides, because The world and the beast in us does not want to confess that all they have is given From GOD and nothing we see; has any permanence beyond the time appointed By GOD.
Makes it doubly important to know that our strength comes from Jesus Christ; who only Has All Power And Glory In any place we live and breathe and even beyond into everything Spiritual.
Mat 5:15 (KJV)
Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
Luk 11:33 (KJV)
No man, when he hath lighted a candle, putteth it in a secret place, neither under a bushel, but on a candlestick, that they which come in may see the light.
2Co 4: 1-18 (GNB)
1 God in his mercy has given us this work to do, and so we do not become discouraged.
2 We put aside all secret and shameful deeds; we do not act with deceit, nor do we falsify the word of God. In the full light of truth we live in God's sight and try to commend ourselves to everyone's good conscience.
3 For if the gospel we preach is hidden, it is hidden only from those who are being lost. (John 3-16-17)
4 They do not believe, because their minds have been kept in the dark by the (evil god (?) of this world) who blinds?. He keeps them from seeing the light shining on them, the light that comes from the Good News about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.
contrast with GNB v4 above
2Co 4:4 (Lamsa NT)
To those in this world whose minds have been blinded by God, because they did not believe, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the likeness of God, should shine on them.
5 For it is not ourselves that we preach; we preach Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus' sake.
6 The God who said, "Out of darkness the light shall shine!" is the same God who made his light shine in our hearts, to bring us the knowledge of God's glory shining in the face of Christ.
7 Yet we who have this spiritual treasure are like common clay pots, in order to show that the supreme power belongs to God, not to us.
8 We are often troubled, but not crushed; sometimes in doubt, but never in despair;
9 there are many enemies, but we are never without a friend; and though badly hurt at times, we are not destroyed.
10 At all times we carry in our mortal bodies the death of Jesus, so that his life also may be seen in our bodies.
11 Throughout our lives we are always in danger of death for Jesus' sake, in order that his life may be seen in this mortal body of ours.
12 This means that death is at work in us, but life is at work in you.
13 The scripture says, "I spoke because I believed." In the same spirit of faith we also speak because we believe.
14 We know that God, who raised the Lord Jesus to life, will also raise us up with Jesus and take us, together with you, into his presence.
15 All this is for your sake; and as God's grace reaches more and more people, they will offer to the glory of God more prayers of thanksgiving.
16 For this reason we never become discouraged. Even though our physical being is gradually decaying, yet our spiritual being is renewed day after day.
17 And this small and temporary trouble we suffer will bring us a tremendous and eternal glory, much greater than the trouble.
18 For we fix our attention, not on things that are seen, but on things that are unseen. What can be seen lasts only for a time, but what cannot be seen lasts forever.
contrast with v18 above
2Co 4:18 (Rotherham)
So long as we are not looking out for the visible things, but for the invisible; for, the visible things, are temporary, whereas, the invisible, are age-abiding.
george. :)
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: aqr on December 11, 2009, 02:32:47 PM ---
4 They do not believe, because their minds have been kept in the dark by the (evil god (?) of this world) who blinds?. He keeps them from seeing the light shining on them, the light that comes from the Good News about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.
contrast with GNB v4 above
2Co 4:4 (Lamsa NT)
To those in this world whose minds have been blinded by God, because they did not believe, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the likeness of God, should shine on them.
--- End quote ---
Hey George,
Is this translation interpreting that God blinded people BECAUSE they did not believe and not Satan blinds those so they CAN'T believe? I'm asking because I notice the capitalized 'God' when most other translations use 'god' as attributed to Satan.
2 Cor 4:4 ...the god of this eon blinds the apprehensions of the unbelieving so that the illumination of the evangel of the glory of Christ, Who is the Image of the invisible God, does not irradiate them. [CLV]
2 Cor 4:4 ...the god of this age, hath blinded the minds of the unbelieving, to the end they may not discern the radiance e of the glad-message of the glory of the Christ - who is the image of God. [REB]
2 Cor 4:4 ...the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the likeness of God. [RSV]
2 Cor 4:4 ...the god of this age did blind the minds of the unbelieving, that there doth not shine forth to them the enlightening of the good news of the glory of the Christ, who is the image of God; [YLT]
Marques
aqrinc:
--- Quote from: mharrell08 on December 11, 2009, 03:20:21 PM ---
--- Quote from: aqr on December 11, 2009, 02:32:47 PM ---
4 They do not believe, because their minds have been kept in the dark by the (evil god (?) of this world) who blinds?. He keeps them from seeing the light shining on them, the light that comes from the Good News about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.
contrast with GNB v4 above
2Co 4:4 (Lamsa NT)
To those in this world whose minds have been blinded by God, because they did not believe, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the likeness of God, should shine on them.
--- End quote ---
Hey George,
Is this translation interpreting that God blinded people BECAUSE they did not believe and not Satan blinds those so they CAN'T believe? I'm asking because I notice the capitalized 'God' when most other translations use 'god' as attributed to Satan.
2 Cor 4:4 ...the god of this eon blinds the apprehensions of the unbelieving so that the illumination of the evangel of the glory of Christ, Who is the Image of the invisible God, does not irradiate them. [CLV]
2 Cor 4:4 ...the god of this age, hath blinded the minds of the unbelieving, to the end they may not discern the radiance e of the glad-message of the glory of the Christ - who is the image of God. [REB]
2 Cor 4:4 ...the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the likeness of God. [RSV]
2 Cor 4:4 ...the god of this age did blind the minds of the unbelieving, that there doth not shine forth to them the enlightening of the good news of the glory of the Christ, who is the image of God; [YLT]
Marques
--- End quote ---
Hi Marques,
I seem to remember a discussion a while back on the subject of God Blinding; while Satan Lies or confuses. Will do a more indepth research and get back with you. But to the question; yes it does seem to say exactly this in Lamsa NT plainly and in other translations not so plainly, see below..
2Co 4:4 (Murdock)
to them whose minds the God of this world hath blinded, in order that they might not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of the Messiah (who is the likeness of God) should dawn upon them.
2Co 4:4 (TCNT) 20th Century 1904
Men whose minds have been blinded by the God of this Age, unbelievers as they are, so that the light from the Good News of the glory of the Christ, who is the very incarnation of God, should not shine for them.
2Co 4:4 (Geneva Bible) 1587
In whom the God of this world hath blinded the mindes, that is, of the infidels, that the light of the glorious Gospell of Christ, which is the image of God, should not shine vnto them.
george. ??? ??? ???
Deborah-Leigh:
Something to ponder...
Exo 4:10 And Moses said unto the LORD, O my Lord, I am not eloquent, neither heretofore, nor since thou hast spoken unto thy servant: but I am slow of speech, and of a slow tongue.
Exo 4:11 And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?
Mat 13:15 for MADE GROSS was the heart of this people, and with the ears they heard heavily, and their eyes they did close, lest they might see with the eyes, and with the ears might hear, and with the heart understand, and turn back, and I might heal them.
Mat 13:16 `And happy are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear,
Psa 146:8 The LORD openeth the eyes of the blind: the LORD raiseth them that are bowed down: the LORD loveth the righteous:
2Ti 2:25 He must speak in a gentle tone when correcting the errors of opponents, in the hope (We take comfort in the knowledge, trust and dependence on the fact ) that God will at last give them repentance, for them to come to a full knowledge of the truth
2Ti 2:26 and recover sober-mindedness and freedom from the Devil's snare, though they are now entrapped by him to do his will.
It is the Sovereign plan of God that any be blinded, lost or experience the sore consequences of rebellion, disobedience and blindness. First the Natural then the Spiritual
Ref : TWELVE GOD-GIVEN TRUTHS TO UNDERSTAND HIS WORD
Quote..“The sequence of God’s plan of salvation for mankind is most important—First is the physical and then comes the spiritual.”…unquote
Rom 1:21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him. Instead, their thoughts turned to worthless things, and their ignorant hearts were darkened.
This describes carnal, literal stupidity that deems itself wise, holier-than-thou, better than, higher than, more superior than anyone else.
God’s Mercy is for the self-righteous not the righteous!
Rom 1:28 Furthermore, because they did not think it worthwhile to retain the full knowledge of God, God gave them over to degraded minds to perform acts that should not be done.
Rom 1:29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed, and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, quarreling, deceit, and viciousness. They are gossips,
Rom 1:30 slanderers, God-haters, haughty, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to their parents,
Rom 1:31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless.
Rom 1:32 Although they know God's just requirement-that those who practice such things deserve to die-they not only do these things but even applaud others who practice them.
There is so much to repent of. Where sin abounds, and sin does abound, it is our Hope and Confidence in the certainty that Gods Grace does abound much more.
Rom 5:20 Now Law was brought in later on, so that transgression might increase. But where sin increased, grace has overflowed;
Rom 5:21 in order that as sin has exercised kingly sway in inflicting death, so grace, too, may exercise kingly sway in bestowing a righteousness which results in the Life of the Ages through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Mat 19:11 "It is not every man," He replied, "who can receive this teaching, but only those on whom the grace has been bestowed.
No one can repent without the Goodness of God and through the Grace of God. The honorable attitude towards our enemies is the confidence in God that through His Mercy and Goodness
Isa 29:24 Those who erred in spirit shall come to understanding, and those who murmured shall learn doctrine.
Arc
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: aqr on December 12, 2009, 01:41:29 AM ---
Hi Marques,
I seem to remember a discussion a while back on the subject of God Blinding; while Satan Lies or confuses. Will do a more indepth research and get back with you. But to the question; yes it does seem to say exactly this in Lamsa NT plainly and in other translations not so plainly, see below..
2Co 4:4 (Murdock)
to them whose minds the God of this world hath blinded, in order that they might not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of the Messiah (who is the likeness of God) should dawn upon them.
2Co 4:4 (TCNT) 20th Century 1904
Men whose minds have been blinded by the God of this Age, unbelievers as they are, so that the light from the Good News of the glory of the Christ, who is the very incarnation of God, should not shine for them.
2Co 4:4 (Geneva Bible) 1587
In whom the God of this world hath blinded the mindes, that is, of the infidels, that the light of the glorious Gospell of Christ, which is the image of God, should not shine vnto them.
george. ??? ??? ???
--- End quote ---
I think a mistake that a few of these translators have done is believe 'god' is a name instead of a title. Satan is given the title 'god' [though with a lower case 'g'] as he is the head of all the nations, in this present wicked age [Gal 1:4]. Ray explains how it is Satan who blinds the world to prevent them from seeing the true gospel. Otherwise, they would see.
It's silly to think one is blinded BECAUSE they didn't see...that makes no sense, that person wouldn't need to be blinded. One is blinded to prevent them from seeing, 'lest [or otherwise] the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.'
Excerpt from LOF #9 (http://bible-truths.com/lake9.html):
Let’s notice a few things overlooked by most Sunday school teachers (and most of the world’s greatest theologians as well). Ready? Are you sure? Okay, here goes: ALL THE NATIONS OF THE ENTIRE WORLD BELONG TO SATAN THE DEVIL!!! Heaven and Earth are God’s possessions, however, God has delegated the nations to Satan. Satan could not offer all these kingdoms of the world to Jesus if he did not possess them to offer them in the first place. They are Satan’s ignorant kingdoms:
"In whom the god [SATAN] of this world has blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, Who is the Image of God, should shine unto them" (II Cor. 4:4).
Oh, that the Church would believe the Scriptures. Why are there billions who "believe not" in the world? Is it because they CHOOSE to believe not? That’s what well-intentioned Christians tell me all the time. "Ray! these people CHOOSE to go to hell." How, pray tell, can they "choose" to go to hell, when they "believe NOT" in the first place. They don’t "make a choice," the choice is made for them, because they "believe not." And JUST WHY do they "believe not?"
Will you insist on the Church’s answer or will you humbly accept God’s answer? "In whom the God of this world has BLINDED the minds of them that believe NOT…" That’s why they can’t "see" to make the right choice—THEY ARE BLIND!
Now then, what would happen if God were to REMOVE that Satanic blindness? Would they STILL choose to reject Jesus Christ and His gospel? We don’t need to speculate, let’s read it:
"In whom the god of this world has blinded the minds of them which believe not, LEST the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, SHOULD SHINE UNTO THEM" (II Cor. 4:4).
When the deception is taken away, people will understand. When the blindness is taking away, people will see the truth.
Next, notice what Jesus Himself says would happen if this Satanic blindness were removed:
"For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed [Why? Why are their eyes ‘closed?’ Because, "the god of this world has BLINDED… them…" That’s why] lest at ANY TIME they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should BE CONVERTED, and I should HEAL them" (Matt. 13:15).
This is not rocket science. When Satan blinds the minds of people, they "believe NOT." And they cannot repent, be converted, or saved until the blindness is lifted and they are given a knowledge of the Truth. But is it God’s will that such a thing will ever happen?
"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savour; Who WILL have all men to be saved [and just how might that come about?], and to come unto the KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH" (I Tim. 2:4).
But doesn’t the Church teach that God is the Saviour of "believers ONLY?" Don’t the non-believers GO TO HELL? Let’s read it:
"For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, Who is the Saviour of ALL MEN… [but doesn’t that mean believers exclusively? No…] …of ALL MEN, specially of those that believe" (I Tim. 4:10).
Will everyone reading this last paragraph now believe God, and believe these Scriptures, and turn to God and be saved, seeing how simple and clear these verses are. NO! Why not? Because Satan has SPIRITUALLY BLINDED their eyes. True, they can read the words, but they cannot see the Truth in their heart, mind, and spirit. Jesus said,
"…the WORDS that I speak unto you, they are SPIRIT, and they are LIFE" (John 6:63).
No one can "see" words of "spirit" with eyes of flesh. If you are beginning to see the big picture of God’s salvation of all, and rejoice in that Truth, then God has given you "spiritual eyes to see spiritual words."
We coin the phrase, "In God We Trust," and parrot the phrase, "One Nation Under God," but how can that be, seeing that we have just read in the Scriptures that all the kingdoms of this world belong to Satan who has blinded the minds of these same nations. Now surely someone will say, "But Mr. Smith, Satan has blinded the minds of only those who ‘believe not.’" Well, if they are not blinded, then they will believe the above Scriptures that say Satan is the god of this world and Satan owns all the nations of this world! But the so-called "believers" don’t really "believe" the Scriptures that I just quoted, DO THEY? No, of course they don’t. Do you see how God’s Word is a "two-edged sword?"
Yes, ultimately we know it is God's intention that most of humanity not know His Will and Plan, but Satan is delegated to blind the nations and 'deceive the whole world' [Rev 12:9]. As a matter of fact, this passage from Rev 12:9 is an exact spiritual match to the one in 2 Cor 4:4...but it looks as though a few translators missed that one.
With translations, it's not only a matter of translating one word or phrase into an English equivalent (which is impossible to do 100%). It's also a matter of interpretation, as in an UNDERSTANDING of what is being said. Those translations that implied that God blinds people BECAUSE they don't see do not understand that verse at all. It's Satan (by the Intentions of GOD) who blinds people to CAUSE them not to see.
Hope this helps,
Marques
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