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Snatch them from fire?
hillsbororiver:
Very interesting topic emkayfey,
Antaiwan, I believe you are on to something here. Often we have a tendency to only apply scripture to the here and now, we look for the literal, moral and even allegorical messages but sometimes we forget about the prophetic message that might be contained within books not normally associated with prophecy.
If we look carefully at what emkayfey noted about what is being proposed in Jude, we must ask ourselves what power do we presently have to pull anyone out of any type of trial, tribulation or spiritual fire they might be experiencing in this life, in this age? Yes, we can be an example, we can answer a question when asked but do any of us have a real power at this time to judge, evaluate, discern and administer mercy and true (spiritual) peace if need be? I can only answer for myself and the answer is a resounding NO!
I have no such power....
I can hear responses now saying "Joe, it is the Spirit which accomplishes these things, not men." True, in this age, but isn't it written that at some point in the age to come His elect will also have been given the power and spiritual discernment to actually have a direct effect on the perfection of others? Not only on people of our own generation(s) but of people throughout the course of history.
Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect. (Read the entire chapter)
Could it be possible that Jude's greater message was directed to the time/age after the following transpires?
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle:
the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
We know all will eventually be saved, who might be pulling those on the wrong side of the battle out of this "fire" when the time is right, when they are ready for harvest?
Just some thoughts...
Peace,
Joe
P.S. Antaiwan I see your post was removed (by you?), too bad, I thought there was merit in what you wrote.
Akira329:
Hey Joe!
Yeah, I removed the post! (first time I actually removed my own post too!!!)
I understand the point your making and I believe I was thinking along the same lines but I'm still unsure if it applies to this verse. I'm still meditating on it.
Im glad you mentioned the prophetic message point of view.
The verse is translated many different ways and its quite confusing.
Jud 1:22 And of some have compassion, making a difference: (discernment)
Jud 1:23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
I understand verse 23 to be a metaphor of how one is saved.
The contemporary version makes more sense to me:
Jud 1:22 Be helpful to all who may have doubts. (why this way???)
Jud 1:23 Rescue any who need to be saved, as you would rescue someone from a fire. There is the figure of speech, a simile. We are to rescue someone as we we would if they were in a fire. Not judgement fire. Then with fear in your own hearts, have mercy on everyone who needs it. But hate even the clothes of those who have been made dirty by their filthy deeds. There is the other!! a metaphor. The dirty clothes are the filthy deeds.
A friend of mine made a good point, It doesn't make sense to be saved or rescued from judgement fire.
We are saved by this fire not from it.
The scriptures I showed in my previous post, I thought were a witness to these but it didn't fit. So I think, still not sure........
I just don't think this instance is talking about judgment fire.
Joe, you do make a valid point that a lot of things we should do for the wicked and unbelieving we just can't accomplish now.
But we can literally saved them from fire(danger, hurt, harmful situations, etc........) I do understand that is capable for some.
What I can understand from the KJV is that we save some with compassion and then we save some with fear (fear of their harm)
Verse 24 is why I made the previous assumption or post that I erased.
Jud 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
How do we keep them(wicked, mockers, unbelieving) from falling?
He is able to keep us from falling because we have be chosen out.
See where I'm going????
I'm going to continue to meditate.........
Like my friend said I might be suffering from paralysis of analysis!!! seriously!!!
Antaiwan
hillsbororiver:
Hi Antaiwan,
Perhaps the only way to experience and fulfill this message from Jude would be by joining our local volunteer fire department..... ;)
Peace,
Joe
G. Driggs:
Not sure if this is a spiritual match, but I think it's worth a look.
Zec 3:1 Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the Angel of the LORD, with Satan standing at his right side to accuse him.
Zec 3:2 The LORD said to Satan: "The LORD rebuke you, Satan! May the LORD who has chosen Jerusalem rebuke you! Isn't this man a burning stick snatched from the fire?"
Zec 3:3 Now Joshua was dressed with filthy clothes as he stood before the Angel.
Zec 3:4 So He spoke to those standing before Him, "Take off his filthy clothes!" Then He said to him, "See, I have removed your guilt from you, and I will clothe you with splendid robes."
Zec 3:5 Then I said, "Let them put a clean turban on his head." So a clean turban was placed on his head, and they clothed him in garments while the Angel of the LORD was standing nearby.
Zec 3:6 Then the Angel of the LORD charged Joshua:
Zec 3:7 "This is what the LORD of Hosts says: If you walk in My ways and keep My instructions, you will both rule My house and take care of My courts; I will also grant you access among these who are standing here.
Zec 3:8 "Listen, Joshua the high priest, you and your colleagues sitting before you; indeed, these men are a sign that I am about to bring My servant, the Branch.
Zec 3:9 Notice the stone I have set before Joshua; on that one stone are seven eyes. I will engrave an inscription on it"--the declaration of the LORD of Hosts--"and I will take away the guilt of this land in a single day.
Zec 3:10 On that day, each of you will invite his neighbor to sit under his vine and fig tree." This is the declaration of the LORD of Hosts.
Jud 1:22 Have mercy on some who doubt;
Jud 1:23 save others by snatching them from the fire; on others have mercy in fear, hating even the garment defiled by the flesh.
Jud 1:24 Now to Him who is able to protect you from stumbling and to make you stand in the presence of His glory, blameless and with great joy,
Jud 1:25 to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, power, and authority before all time, now, and forever. Amen.
I can see how all this might be talking about things that might happen in the next age, but I can also see some of these happening in this age. Then again I could be way off.
G.Driggs
hillsbororiver:
--- Quote from: G. Driggs on January 01, 2010, 07:59:18 PM ---
I can see how all this might be talking about things that might happen in the next age, but I can also see some of these happening in this age. Then again I could be way off.
G.Driggs
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: hillsbororiver on January 01, 2010, 05:00:07 PM ---
Often we have a tendency to only apply scripture to the here and now, we look for the literal, moral and even allegorical messages but sometimes we forget about the prophetic message that might be contained within books not normally associated with prophecy.
--- End quote ---
Hi George,
You are not off at all, at least from my perspective. Should we ever ignore meditating or considering any literal, moral or allegorical message in His Word? When, or at what time in the here and now can we be confident and complacent enough to say to ourselves (or anyone who happens to be listening) "I know everything, on every level what this book, chapter or even verse of what this scripture is saying?" My only real issue is that it is prudent to also consider the potential prophetic application as well.
My point was not to diminish or exclude any other interpretation but to propose there may indeed be another application as well.
Peace,
Joe
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