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Snatch them from fire?
Kat:
As I was reading through Jude it becomes clear right off that he is talking to the believers about those that come among them that are not of like mind.
Jude 1:4 For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
Jude goes on to warn the believers about how corrupt these people are.
v. 17 But you, beloved, remember the words which were spoken before by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ:
v. 18 how they told you that there would be mockers in the last time who would walk according to their own ungodly lusts.
v. 19 These are sensual persons, who cause divisions, not having the Spirit.
Now we come to the verses in question. Isn't he just saying how to help those that these "ungodly people" are affecting?
v. 22 And have mercy (compassion) on those who doubt;
v. 23 save others by snatching them out of the fire; to others show mercy with fear, hating even the garment stained by the flesh.
When he talks about saving some, I think he is speaking of trying to help "save" some from those ungodly people luring them away. James and Paul both spoke this way.
Rom 11:13 Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry
v. 14 in order somehow to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them.
James 5:19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back,
v. 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.
Just wanted to add these Scriptures to the discussion.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Akira329:
Kat those are the scriptures I needed!!!
Thank You!
emkayfey:
--- Quote from: Akira329 on January 01, 2010, 05:59:56 PM ---
The contemporary version makes more sense to me:
Jud 1:22 Be helpful to all who may have doubts. (why this way???)
Jud 1:23 Rescue any who need to be saved, as you would rescue someone from a fire. There is the figure of speech, a simile. We are to rescue someone as we we would if they were in a fire. Not judgement fire. Then with fear in your own hearts, have mercy on everyone who needs it. But hate even the clothes of those who have been made dirty by their filthy deeds. There is the other!! a metaphor. The dirty clothes are the filthy deeds.
A friend of mine made a good point, It doesn't make sense to be saved or rescued from judgement fire.
We are saved by this fire not from it.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: Kat on January 01, 2010, 08:59:49 PM ---
Rom 11:13 Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry
v. 14 in order somehow to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them.
James 5:19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back,
v. 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.
Just wanted to add these Scriptures to the discussion.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
--- End quote ---
The comparative scripture by Kat and the contemporary version translation by akira seems to make things clearer and more sensible for me, you'll have thought concordant version would put this better, this underscores the value of cross referencing scriptures as Ray often advocates.
So Jude is either only a Simile as portrayed by the contemporary version or Jude is talking to the believers about those that come among them that are not of like mind as noted by Kat. Or it is actually talking about another age. as pointed out by hillsbororiver.
Loads of food for thoughts on this now.
Emmanuel
Deborah-Leigh:
To follow what Kat posted.
Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departure grievous wolves shall enter in AMONG YOU, not sparing the flock.
Jesus tells us what is going to happen.
Luk 10:3 Go! Behold, I SEND YOU FORTH as lambs among wolves.
Jesus tells us how He handles this. 8)
Mat 10:16 Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore BE AS WISE AS SERPENTS AND AS HARMLESS AS DOVES.
This is the Plan of God.
1Co 11:19 For there must also be heresies among you, that the approved ones may be revealed among you.
Act 20:30 Also men shall arise from your own selves, speaking perverse things in order to draw disciples away after them.
2Ti 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honor, and some to dishonor.
2Co 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, so that the excellence of the power may be of God and not of us;
Act 20:35 I have shown you all things, that working in this way we ought to help the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, that He Himself said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same YESTERDAY and TODAY and forever.
Arc
indianabob:
Great study friends,
Thanks to all for the stimulating and helpful input.
As other have mentioned there is much to mull over.
It is topics such as this that give my daily life purpose and that drive me to focus my efforts in study and in prayer for understanding.
Indiana Bob
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