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About God
Kat:
Hi Ron,
--- Quote ---Is Jesus Christ omniscient? Did the Father reveal everything to Jesus as the Creator at the very beginning, or has it been a process for Him as it has been for us?
--- End quote ---
I certainly believe that the Father revealed His plan and intentions to the One who would be creating and sustains all of this physical realm.
Col 1:16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.
v. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.
We know that Jesus Christ is one with the Father.
John 10:30 I and My Father are one.
As being one with the Father I believe He has access to all the Father has.
Col 2:2-3 that their hearts may be consoled, being united in love, and to all the riches of the assurance of understanding, unto a realization of the secret of the God and Father, of Christ, in Whom all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge are concealed. (CLV)
John 3:31 He who comes from above is above all; he who is of the earth is earthly and speaks of the earth. He who comes from heaven is above all.
v. 32 And what He has seen and heard, that He testifies...
v. 35 The Father loves the Son, and has given all things into His hand.
John 5:19 Then Jesus answered and said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner.
v. 20 For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself does; and He will show Him greater works than these, that you may marvel.
v. 21 For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will.
v. 22 For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son,
v. 23 that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Deborah-Leigh:
Hi Eric and Ron
Mat 11:27 All things are delivered to Me by My Father. And no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son will reveal Him.
Luk 10:22 All things are delivered to Me by My Father; and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and the one to whom the Son will reveal Him.
1Co 2:11 For who among men knows the things of a man except the spirit of man within him? So also no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.
Christ is of God. The Spirit of Christ is the Spirit of God The Father. Likewise, Jesus is the incarnation OF Christ the first born OF God. There is no other First born of God. There are sons and daughters to follow in the Image of the Son of God.
1Co 1:30 But of Him you (We) are IN Christ Jesus, who of God IS MADE TO US WISDOM, and RIGHTEOUSNESS and SANCTIFICATION and REDEMPTION.
Pro 3:19 Jehovah has founded the earth by WISDOM; by understanding He has founded the heavens.
Pro 4:7 WISDOM is the main thing; get WISDOM; and with all your getting get understanding.
When finally we are completed in His Image, we too shall understand. For now we are being fashioned in HIS Wisdom, Righteousness, Sanctification and Redemption.
Pro 8:1 Does not wisdom call? And does not understanding put forth her voice?
Pro 9:1 Wisdom has built her house; she has carved out her seven pillars;
Joh 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled. You believe in God, believe also in Me.
Joh 14:2 In My Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, so that where I am, you may be also.
Joh 14:4 And where I go you know, and the way you know.
Is this a process? Yes. Jesus Christ shows us the way.
Arc
ericsteven:
Hi all,
You all have quoted many Scriptures to prove your understanding of the question, “Is Jesus omniscient?” and I very much appreciate it. However, what I have begun to see through a little research and reading is that the debate over the answer to this question goes back a whole lot longer than any of us on this forum. :D
Part of the reason is because there are Scriptures in the Gospels that seem to suggest that Jesus did not know some things, thus casting doubt on his omniscience. For instance:
Mark 13:32 `And concerning that day and the hour no one hath known -- not even the messengers who are in the heaven, not even the Son -- except the Father.
The question becomes, If Jesus did not know this, how can He be omniscient? For those who believe that Jesus is the God of the Old Testament, the question might be, Was the knowledge of “that day and the hour” something that Jesus knew as the God of the Old Testament before He became human, but which was then withheld from Him when He became human? Did He once again "remember" it again once He was resurrected?
Some scholars attribute this to His divine nature vs. His human nature; or that in His divine subconscious, He knew it but in his human consciousness, He didn’t know it. Or that He gave up that part of His divinity when He became human. Some of their explanations are really out there and sound like what I call “theology-school speak.”
On the flip side, though, there are definitely instances where Jesus knew certain things that no ordinary human being could know. For example: 1). Peter’s denial, 2.) the coming destruction of the temple, 3). Judas’ betrayal…etc.
In this case, the question becomes, Are these things known by Jesus because He is truly omniscient or because they were revealed to Him by the Father? He did after all seclude Himself as often as He could to spend time in prayer to His Father, at which point the Father could have revealed many things to Him.
I don’t know. There’s a lot more to consider on this topic, and I have no illusions that any of us – or perhaps I should say, at least I - can come to a definitive answer necessarily in this thread, especially considering it’s been debated quite extensively by many even going back to the 2nd and 3rd centuries.
I’ll spend more time in prayer and study, and perhaps God will give me a more thorough understanding. Anyways, thanks for the responses, and I apologize to Ron if it seems my question superceded his.
Peace, Eric
Deborah-Leigh:
--- Quote ---Mark 13:32 `And concerning that day and the hour no one hath known -- not even the messengers who are in the heaven, not even the Son -- except the Father.
The question becomes, If Jesus did not know this, how can He be omniscient?
--- End quote ---
Eph 4:10 He who descended IS THE SAME also as He who ascended up far above all heavens,
Ray has written in his teachings that Jesus may not have known the hour when He walked the earth but He certainly knows the hour now since his resurrection.
The Scriptures TESTIFY how Christ came to the earth to obey the Father and put into manifestation the way of obedience for us to follow.
Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor, that He by the grace of God should taste death for all.
Eph 4:9 (Now that He ascended, what is it but that He also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Php 2:7 but made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Himself the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.
Php 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Php 2:9 Therefore God has highly exalted Him, and has given Him a name which is above every name,
Php 2:10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of heavenly ones, and of earthly ones, and of ones under the earth;
Did the new born Jesus speak, read, write, walk and be an adult at birth? Put this question together with your question and they are the SAME! :D
Luk 1:80 And the child grew and became strong in spirit and was in the deserts until the day of his showing to Israel.
Luk 2:40 And the Child grew and became strong in spirit, filled with wisdom. And the grace of God was on Him.
Act 12:24 But the Word of God grew and increased.
Act 19:20 So the Word of God grew mightily and prevailed.
No one denies that the Word of God GREW. We should see this spiritually not carnally. Christ is not carnal HE is Spirit. Christ is the SAME, yesterday, today and tomorrow…
Eph 4:10 He who descended IS THE SAME also as He who ascended up far above all heavens,
Arc
Kat:
Hi Eric,
I do not think that Jesus forgot knowledge He had when He came into the flesh.
Mark 13:32 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
I believe that Christ certainly retained all His previous knowledge while in human form and knew the plan of the Father, but at that point in time He did not know the exact "day and hour," as He said so. I think He knew the timetable and had a good idea but not the exact "day and hour" until after His resurrection.
Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
Mat 28:20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.
Now at this point in time after all things had been fulfilled on earth and "all authority" has been given to Him, I feel certain He now knows exactly the remaining events and the timetable and by His own authority (always according to the will of the Father, of course) does now know exactly when He will return. But this is just my opinion.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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