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Enoch was taken up
elias3013:
Why must the scriptures in Hebrews be taken out of context. Its obvious by the scriptures that Enoch did not die.
Ron
Dave in Tenn:
On the contrary...it is NOT obvious from scripture that Enoch did not die.
Let me turn the question around. If he did not die, then what happened to him? Did he ascend into heaven? Didn't the Lord Jesus say in scripture already posted that NO MAN has ascended into heaven?
Perhaps he went someplace else not mentioned in scripture where disembodied souls can live? Do we need to imagine such a place or invent such an unscriptural doctrine simply because we do not believe Enoch died?
When encountering seeming discrepancies in different parts of Scripture, some people hear the distant hooves of horses. Others are sure they hear unicorns. I'm sorry that some find reasonable explanations consistent with the whole councel of God on the matter of death inadequate to chase down this doctinal squirrel. This too is the will of God. Arion is right in mentioning the various false doctrines that have flowed out of this belief that Enoch never died...everything from eschatological assumptions, to belief in the immortality of the soul, ie the DEAD are NOT DEAD. This is also the will of God.
I've never found this explanation hollow or lacking. I've found it consistent with the rest of inspiration, and evidence of the Divine participation in the deception of the 'wise'.
This website and forum exist to discuss the teaching of Ray Smith, not a forum open to every wind of doctrine and baggage. This is no secret and shouldn't be. Kat and others have shared what Ray has to say on the subject. If you find yourself strongly disagreeing with Ray on this matter, then write to him.
The thread has run its course, considering why we are here.
Craig:
--- Quote from: elias3013 on January 29, 2010, 11:08:47 AM ---Why must the scriptures in Hebrews be taken out of context. Its obvious by the scriptures that Enoch did not die.
Ron
--- End quote ---
I'm not sure why that is out of context, and it is not obvious to me. Ray has taught on many times before, what has he said?
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,941.0.html
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3019.0.html
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3019.0.html
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5855.0.html
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,891.0.html
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4219.0.html
and a few other places as well.
Craig
Roy Coates:
--- Quote from: Craig on January 29, 2010, 11:54:51 AM ---
--- Quote from: elias3013 on January 29, 2010, 11:08:47 AM ---Why must the scriptures in Hebrews be taken out of context. Its obvious by the scriptures that Enoch did not die.
Ron
--- End quote ---
I'm not sure why that is out of context, and it is not obvious to me. Ray has taught on many times before, what has he said?
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,941.0.html
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3019.0.html
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3019.0.html
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5855.0.html
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,891.0.html
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4219.0.html
and a few other places as well.
Craig
--- End quote ---
I concure, especially with the bold. May God have mercy on us all.Peace
Deborah-Leigh:
All references to Rays writings are food for the sheep. :)
Hi Oatmeal
WE, are reconciled. Enoch was transported. You askd me to explain this.
Enoch died. All have to die. That is scriptural. That is what God says. That is non-negotiable.
Keeping in mind the edifications already posted in this thread from quotes of Scripture and Ray Smith….
Mat 26:2 You ( We ) know that after two days the Passover comes, and the Son of Man is betrayed to be crucified.
Mat 27:3 Then he who had betrayed Him, seeing that He was condemned, sorrowing, Judas returned the thirty pieces of silver again to the chief priests and elders,
Luk 21:16 And you (We) shall be betrayed also by parents and brothers and kinsmen and friends. And they (as Pharaoh did not do the Will of God, they,) will cause some of you to be put to death.
In the night of His betrayal, Jesus took bread. This is what we are doing in the nights of our betrayals. We are taking the bread of life offered here in the edifications of God’s Word expounded by Ray Smith.
1Co 11:23 For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which he was betrayed took bread;
In the night, darkness, we are betrayed. But look…
1Jn 2:8 Again, I write a new commandment to you, which thing is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away, and the true Light NOW shines.
Jesus was betrayed firstly, condemned secondly and thirdly He rose again. He asked Peter firstly, and secondly do you agape Me, then for a second time, do you Phileo Me….then feed My Sheep.
Before Jesus was crucified, He asked His Disciples
Luk 9:20 He said to THEM, (Us)But who do you (We, you, I) say that I am? Answering, Peter said, The Christ of God.
After Christ was risen His question to Peter was firstly do you agape me, secondly, do you agape me AND
Joh 21:17 He said to him the third time, Simon, son of Jonah, do you love (Phileo) Me? Peter was grieved because He said to him a third time, Do you love Me? And he said to Him, Lord, You know all things, You know that I love You. Jesus said to him, feed my sheep.
Please apply the study on Agape Love and Phileo Love in the edification written by Ray Smith.
1Pe 2:9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for possession, so that you might speak of the praises of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
To copy back from Marks beautiful contribution, not in denial of others insightful offerings, here then again, compliments of our much loved Ray Smith. Quote…
To the degree that we have God's Spirit is the degree to which we reside in this Kingdom
Arc
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