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called and chosen
judith collier:
Arcturus, hi!!! With much respect I need to know when you say God is using us to know the difference between good and evil, how you see that. Isn't it like eating the apple from the tree and having judgement, knowing good and evil. I thought we were not to judge.
From being on this site I have learned to look at situations differently. That once what I called evil is still evil, yes, but not neccesarily so as to judgement but rather the result of a period of time in a person's life that God has ordained with God being the responsible catylist. Maybe you are saying we are able to spot good and evil but not judge it. Correct?
Maybe I am thinking too much here and not doing a bang up job at it.
Please respond.
Thanks, judy
Kat:
Hi Gallenwalsh,
--- Quote ---Were the 12 apostles called, and chosen?
--- End quote ---
Most definitely, the proof is they lived their lives as total sacrifice for the sake of the truth after they were chosen. Jesus even gave a prophecy that the disciples would be chosen and faithful (except of course Judas), surely He knows who are His.
Mat 19:23 Then Jesus said to His disciples... (we see who Jesus is speaking to here)
v. 27 Then Peter answered and said to Him, "See, we have left all and followed You. Therefore what shall we have?"
v. 28 So Jesus said to them, "Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
--- Quote ---It seemed to me that the apostle Paul felt pretty confident that he had a crown waiting for him and that he successfully had completed his course and was ready to die and await his resurrection to be with the Lord. I have heard it said that one can be called and we hope to be chosen. I understand that one cannot be sure if they are chosen until the resurrection, that will be the PROOF.
--- End quote ---
2Tim 4:6 For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure is at hand.
v. 7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
v. 8 Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing.
When Paul made this statement he knew he was about to be put to death. The proof was that he like the Apostles had lived his life as a total sacrifice for the sake of the truth after being knocked down by the blinding light that was Jesus Christ. He knew his work was done "I have finished the race," and he had been faithful "I have kept the faith." So I guess he had no doubt after all he had been through, that he would remain faithful in the last days that he had.
--- Quote ---My question is really quite simple though, if god has put his holy spirit in you , are you chosen ? What does that mean if God has put his spirit in you?
--- End quote ---
John 14:26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
The Holy Spirit is given to those that God is going to prepare so as to be ready when Christ returns. I think you do have a sense of His spirit indwelling. Because you know when your life makes a definite change, when you begin to overcome the sins that have haunted you for so long, when you hunger and thirst for the knowledge of this truth so much and just can not get enough.
I will say you are only the chosen/elect if you do endure to the end, Jesus will not lose those that are His.
John 10:27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
v. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
If you have been enlightened to the truth and then you turn away from it, then you will not be restored in the age and you were never chosen.
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
v. 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
v. 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
But someone can seem to be and think they are chosen and not be, remember the Parable of the Wheat and the Tares in Matt. 13.
Mat 13:24-30 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. So the servants of the owner came and said to him, "Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?' He said to them, "An enemy has done this.' The servants said to him, "Do you want us then to go and gather them up?' But he said, "No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.""'
So even if we are not absolutely sure we want to continue to strive to stay in the race our whole life, because we know there is a real hope of being in the first resurrection and to make it there will be well worth it.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
G. Driggs:
--- Quote from: gallenwalsh on March 07, 2010, 11:01:33 AM ---Not sure what that is supposed to mean. It sounds good.but, surely not one human being is faithful, or will ever be, as Ray has stated we are sinning MACHINES.
--- End quote ---
One can be "faithful" and still have sin in there lives, but those who are faithful sin less and less through a process which involves God's purifying, fiery judgment on the faithful. To the point sin no longer has dominion in ones life, which is where I believe Paul was when he said he had finished the race.
Here is a word from Ray about this process the faithful will have to go through now in this age.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,10966.0.html
SO JUST HOW IS IT THAT WE STOP SINNING?
The answer is we can’t. But God can and does and He does it BY GRACE through faith.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
That is why: “There is now NO CONDEMNATION to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” (Rom. 8:1)
Now we sometimes chastise our children, just like God chastises us. Do we chastise our children because they always know what’s right and wrong and do it anyway? No, they’re young and foolish and sometimes they just don’t know what they’re doing or how wrong it is. But we chastise them so they’ll learn.
God uses anger and wrath to TEACH humanity that what they ARE doing is wrong. But He does not use anger and wrath on His very Elect. Nowhere does God pour out wrath upon His chosen saints. So don’t think that God is angry with you because you have a lot of trails and tribulations. It is part of your training to become SONS OF GOD.
If we are “saved by grace through faith and that not of our own,” (Eph. 2:08) then why are we still sinning and often times it just seems apparent that we’re unable to conquer, at least, certain sins? It sounds like God takes the responsibility to get you to stop sinning and He does take that responsibility. If He takes that responsibility, does it mean you don’t have enough responsibility to do it yourself ? That’s exactly what it means.
So there’s a process and it’s all according to God’s timing, not ours. I wanted to stop all my major sins and minor ones too, but especially the major ones, long before I ever stopped. I wanted to quit smoking long before I quit. Why didn’t I?
How many of you were smokers? Wow, God bless you all. My lungs are probably pink again, unless they are eaten up with cancer, but that’s a hard one. Smoking is one of the hardest thing to quit, very hard. They say nicotine is more addictive than heroin and I know. I actually quit a couple of times and started again. I quit smoking for 25 years and then started smoking again. When my wife left, she fell in love with the world and all the glitz and glamour, I wouldn’t date another girl who smoked. But one time in Atlanta I dated a girl who smoked… before you knew it, I was having a cigarette with her. Then I smoked for years. Then I quit again.
But it takes a while for motivation, even though we can say God is the One who determines when you are actually going to put that last cigarette out. Nonetheless, you have to suffer through it. You say, ‘no I put forth the effort.’ God made you put forth the effort. He made you choose and it was probably a hard choice.
But there’s a process to quitting smoking. You try, you fail and one thing and another. But that’s one that a lot of people do and they take credit for it. Most people who quit smoking don’t give God credit for it. Some do and rightly so, but not all.
So, there’s a process. First we are called of God;
1 Corinthians 1:26 For ye see your CALLING, brethren…
This will bring about wisdom, righteousness, sanctification and redemption.
1 Corinthians 1:28-29 …to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in His presence.
v. 30 But of Him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
v.31 That, according as it is written, He that glories, let him glory in the Lord.
So, God calls you, He calls the weak nothings of this world and then He makes us in Christ Jesus - wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption. That’s God’s work, God does that.
But there are other processes necessary to reach that goal. We must first “repent and believe the Gospel.”
Mark 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
v.15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
When Jesus Christ began His ministry, did everybody repent? No. Now at John’s preaching, a lot of them got baptized. Did they understand the spiritual ramification of being baptized? Did they understand that they were being baptized into Christ’s death? No, they were just going under then water. Water is a sign of cleansing, washing off the dirt. They wanted to wash off the dirt, wash off their sins.
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Sometimes I forget this and I get really down on myself for my sins, but then I look back at how I was before coming here and I notice a definite improvement. That is not to say I think Im chosen just because there has been improvement, but it does give me more hope and faith to continue. It's so hard sometimes when God shows me the beast within, and it only by His power and grace I'm still here, hoping and praying for salvation from the world, from sin and from myself.
Peace, G.Driggs
Deborah-Leigh:
Good to see you again Judy.
Let me know if this helps please.
What I find easier to believe is that God is responsible for CAUSING or MAKING us, not using us, but creating for us our experience of those circumstances HE appoints to us, in the making of either His vessel of honor or dishonor.
The way I see God working is in how God gave the first similarity between Himself as God, to man. God is generous, above evil and never changes His character of Grace and Love. Man sins and God blesses. God caused and knew Adam and Eve would fail to obey Him. God already designed that what followed their disobedience, would be HIS GRACE imparting to man that first similarity on record, between Himself and His child - to know the difference between good and evil.
Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
We know that making man into the Image of God is God’s work in progress. The Work of God will be complete only once God is all in all.
--- Quote ---evil is still evil, yes, but not neccesarily so as to judgement but rather the result of a period of time in a person's life that God has ordained with God being the responsible catylist.
--- End quote ---
Yes God is responsible ! The more we see, accept and trust that fact, the better our perspectives of what is evil in our lives becomes as we see God working ALL THINGS TO GOOD! 8)
Knowing good and evil is just a part of what judgment is all about. Look at what Paul testifies. He says he knows to do good but can’t. Paul is not saying that he has no clue what is good or bad. He knows. He just can’t apply what he knows. Only with the Spirit of God, can we obey and be as He is. At the end of Paul’s life, he was strengthened by the Spirit of God to follow Christ to his death by execution for this belief and faith. Only God’s Spirit could make Paul share in the privilege of laying down his life for his friends.
Judgment then has to be more than just knowing good and evil. It has also to be doing good over evil that only the Spirit of God can cause for which He is Responsible.
The Scriptures are accurate. The first similarity between God and man, on record, was to KNOW. This was not to be the final or one and only similarity that God will cause man to share in the perfected work of His making us into the Image of His Son.
--- Quote ---Maybe you are saying we are able to spot good and evil but not judge it. Correct?
--- End quote ---
God is making us into His Children who, when we are fully like God, we will not be able to be deceived, mis-led or fooled. That means we have to learn to discern between good and evil, like God discerns and is not fooled or mis-led. Not being swayed, influenced or in agreement with evil, may just as well feel like judgment to those who want us to go along with them and agree and believe in lies that many people have bought into at this time. That is the Plan of God that they do what they do and believe what they falsely believe.
Does that make God evil? No. On the contrary. God is wholly responsible for opening their eyes and when He does, His will be the Glory entirely, and His Mercy will prevail.
It is good to think Judy.
Thanks for your thoughts and questions.
Arc
judith collier:
Arcturus, thank you, I believe I got it!!! One more thing, if we don't feel too bad about our sins but do acknowledge them as sin, should we pray for repentance. I worry that I am not as concerned about them as I think I ought to be. Could it be that just accepting oneself as a sinning military tank (in my case) is just an excuse for not trying to do better. Does God give Grace even when we don't ask for it. Should we pray for the Holy Spirit to do the work and then sit idly by and wait?? I mean how much are we to be involved? I think I am experiencing some apathy here and am concerned. Judy
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