> General Discussions
Parable of the Nobleman?
Kat:
Hi Claypot,
--- Quote ---Kat, are you saying here that the tares are the called? According to you does Ray teach that there are only the chosen and called? Just the 2 classes of people?
--- End quote ---
Generally the Scriptures speak primarily of the Called/many/church and the Chosen/few/Elect. Of course this is not all the people in the world, there are those in the many other religions and the atheists, agnostics and nonreligious.
This particular part of the parable seems to be speaking of the Tares, which are those that 'look' like Wheat/Elect, but are not, that is why they will be burned/judged in the Lake of fire.
--- Quote ---do you see God as austere? Do you see this parable as defining God as austere?
--- End quote ---
Luke 19:21 For I feared you, because you are an austere man.
That statement is made by one that was not a true Elect, therefore his judgement of Christ is not correct.
--- Quote ---"The number of persons in these parables are relative to what is being specifically spoken of."
I don’t understand what you mean here Kat.
--- End quote ---
This particular verse (21) of the parable was about the man that was not the true Chosen (tare), this is a specific segment of the called that dwell among the Elect. So the number is relative to that segment, not the entirety of the called.
--- Quote ---Do you see vs 27 as saying that all that is not of God will be harshly eliminated?
--- End quote ---
Not eliminated, but in the Lake of fire their carnality will be slain in all of humanity, this is not a physical death.
Isa 66:15 For behold, the LORD will come with fire
And with His chariots, like a whirlwind,
To render His anger with fury,
And His rebuke with flames of fire.
Isa 66:16 For by fire and by His sword
The LORD will judge all flesh;
And the slain of the LORD shall be many.
In this age only the Elect/Chosen/few are dying to the carnal self, this is being "crucified with Christ."
Rom 6:6 We know that our old self was crucified with him so that the sinful body might be destroyed, and we might no longer be enslaved to sin.
Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me;
The whole human race must go through this process of killing/destroying the carnality/beast/flesh as the Elect are going through now. The 'fire' in the Lake of fire will be harsh, but only as each deserves as in few stripes, many stripes in Luke 12, but all will be ultimately saved.
1Cor 3:13 each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is.
v. 14 If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward.
v. 15 If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
claypot:
Kat, are you saying here that the tares are the called? According to you does Ray teach that there are only the chosen and called? Just the 2 classes of people?
--- Quote from: Kat on March 26, 2010, 12:29:08 PM ---
Generally the Scriptures speak primarily of the Called/many/church and the Chosen/few/Elect. Of course this is not all the people in the world, there are those in the many other religions and the atheists, agnostics and nonreligious.
--- End quote ---
What does the Bible call these latter ones you mention according to you?
Kat, I asked, do you see God as austere?
--- Quote from: Kat on March 26, 2010, 12:29:08 PM ---
Luke 19:21 For I feared you, because you are an austere man.
That statement is made by one that was not a true Elect, therefore his judgement of Christ is not correct.
--- End quote ---
Again, do YOU see God as austere?
Do you see vs 27 as saying that all that is not of God will be harshly eliminated?
--- Quote from: Kat on March 26, 2010, 12:29:08 PM ---
Not eliminated, but in the Lake of fire their carnality will be slain in all of humanity, this is not a physical death.
--- End quote ---
Isn’t this exactly what I asked? I asked if all that is not of God would be eliminated. You said their carnality would be slain.
Is there a difference I’m not seeing here?
--- Quote from: Kat on March 26, 2010, 12:29:08 PM ---
In this age only the Elect/Chosen/few are dying to the carnal self, this is being "crucified with Christ."
Rom 6:6 We know that our old self was crucified with him so that the sinful body might be destroyed, and we might no longer be enslaved to sin.
Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me;
--- End quote ---
This is a very serious question as are all I ask but I just wanted to emphasize this one. I am not judging or anything like it. Do you consider yourself one of the elect? If so, why? Are your reasons different from any of those who think they may be of the elect but may not be?
--- Quote from: Kat on March 26, 2010, 12:29:08 PM ---
The whole human race must go through this process of killing/destroying the carnality/beast/flesh as the Elect are going through now. The 'fire' in the Lake of fire will be harsh, but only as each deserves as in few stripes, many stripes in Luke 12, but all will be ultimately saved.
--- End quote ---
Amen. Are you saying within each person there is a beast, a man of sin, the old man?
cp
Kat:
Claypot, it really is hard to discuss these things with you when you seem ignorant to a lot that Ray teaches. I do not believe that Ray states there is 'only' the called and the chosen in the world. That would leave out a tremendous amount of people not accounted for.
--- Quote ---What does the Bible call these latter ones you mention according to you?
--- End quote ---
Rev 21:8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."
I think they would fall somewhere in this group.
--- Quote ---Again, do YOU see God as austere?
--- End quote ---
No I would not use that term for God.
--- Quote ---Isn’t this exactly what I asked? I asked if all that is not of God would be eliminated. You said their carnality would be slain.
Is there a difference I’m not seeing here?
--- End quote ---
When you said "all that is not of God would be eliminated," I guess I did not realize you were not speaking of the people here.
--- Quote ---Do you consider yourself one of the elect? If so, why? Are your reasons different from any of those who think they may be of the elect but may not be?
--- End quote ---
1Co 9:24 Do you not know that in a race all the runners compete, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it.
At this point I feel like I am in the race, but only God knows who will endure to the end. I'm not certain of what others ideas may be, I can only speak for myself.
--- Quote ---Are you saying within each person there is a beast, a man of sin, the old man?
--- End quote ---
Ray has several articles on this subject.
Who is the Beast? - 666?
http://bible-truths.com/lake13.html
The Beast Within
http://bible-truths.com/lake14.html
mercy, peace and love
Kat
claypot:
Thanks Kat, I'm off to read the articles you suggested and more. God is good. I'm entering burn out stage so I may seem incoherent but reading is less strenous that discussing so in the famous words of one of our politicians............
I'll be back!
cp
Marky Mark:
--- Quote ---Kat, are you saying here that the tares are the called? According to you does Ray teach that there are only the chosen and called? Just the 2 classes of people?
--- End quote ---
I believe that Ray teaches that although there are the many called and the few chosen,these two groups are out of the same church,which would be babylon. There are certainly only two groups that are being called and chosen in this age. But when judgement comes to the earth upon Christs return, then all or the rest will be accounted for, along with the many called.
Email to Ray.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7390.0.html
Dear DNA: That would rather be Matt. 7:13-14--Mat 7:13 "Enter through the cramped gate, for broad is the gate and spacious is the way which is leading away into destruction, and many are those entering through it. Yet what a cramped gate and narrowed way is the one leading away into life, and few are those who are finding it."
I quoted it from the Concordant Literal New Testament so as to get the tense proper. Notice that it is the broad way that the many "are entering." This is still going on, and it is through the narrowed way that "few are finding." This is nothing more than Jesus' statement that "many are called but few are chosen." But this pertains to this life only. In Judgment all will be judged as God's "House of God" is BEING judged NOW (See I Pet.4:17; I Cor. 11:31-32, etc.).
God be with you,
Ray
Peace...Mark
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