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What shall I call this?

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Deborah-Leigh:
Hi Roy and Beloved

It is ABSOLUTELY  true and not RELATIVELY true , what you say and witness of the required standard and height that we are called to be that is not less than the Standard of Christ. YES. I know! The point of this is that we all can KNOW but then the battle is to APPLY what we know. THAT is the TEST and the TRIAL and the TRIBULATION that we are called to endure as we learn to enter in through the eye of the needle that the rich man cannot pass beyond! Do the words hurt…no Dr Carol…they invigorate, energize and bring life for they are recognized to come from the spirit of edification not prejudice. Thank you. Also, we know that following Christ is not a “feel good” religion. If you are feeling good, chances are you aren’t following!

So YES! Bravo to what you are saying and AMEN I needed to produce in my life and in my actions that awareness when the blitzing trial hits against the walls of my inner peace  that failed me in the situation that caused me grief due to the way I handled the situation! The regret….OH MAN…I do not do what I want to do!

The GIFT, the BLESSING is in recognizing that fact!  and being able to re-run and expose the error in the confines of brotherhood and sisterhood in the efforts to evaluate what the Spirit and Mind of Christ would have me do.

Eph 4:11  And truly He gave some to be apostles, and some to be prophets, and some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers,
Eph 4:12  for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ.
Eph 4:13  And this until we all come into the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a full-grown man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;

So what IS the full-grown measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ? Come let us reason together. Should I have given him the money.? Should I have resisted and


Eph 4:27  neither give place to the Devil.
Eph 4:28  Let him who stole steal no more, but rather let him labor, working with his hands the thing which is good, so that he may have something to give to him who needs.

Give him the money?  Let him TAKE the money and don’t give it to him therefore tempting the greater sin to use force in greater violation than false claims? No. Give him the money. Render to the thief who is not an authority of Caesar but a common thief and make it easy for him to steal? Why? Feel morally sanctified and above him so he can return to my cleaned out conscience and bring his seven brothers to raid my ignorance even more? You think? Just think about it.

You say, give him the money. Why. Does that serve the motive that might include the worldly wisdom of avoiding more damage that could have occurred to my shop or to myself that would have cost more than R50 ? Would that be the Godly motive?  People get killed for less right? Yes or no? Or think  of his motives and why he is doing the crime he is doing. He has hungry kids at home.  Give him the money. Take the loss and turn it all over to Christ? YES? That is the answer? What did I do? Nothing of the sort! I turned it over to the Police instead. Wrong move? I should not have done that? Should I have asked the man why he was trying to cheat me? I KNOW why he came to cheat me.  GOD sent him! He won’t have a clue who God is so why engage him in moral issues? I know God sent him like I know God sent the Chaldeans to the Hebrews to give them a thrashing.  Ref Habukkuk.  Should I have made myself a soft target for the thief’s friends to come and get some easy money from the foolish woman at the till who does not resist evil? Well?  What do you say? Yes or no?


Hab 1:6  For lo, I raise up the Chaldeans, the bitter and hasty nation, which shall march through the breadth of the land to possess homes not their own.

Did any one of you encourage me and tell me God sent the man? GOD sent him. WHY did God send him? WHY? To purify me, that is why! To humble me, that is why. Why does GOD send you pain and suffering and loss and despair? WHY. Do you come here to find out why from us who know better? Do we know better? DO WE. Do we help one another to remember what we know and be better able to APPLY what we know when GOD sends someone into our lives to purify or purge us of false thinking and foolish assumptions of ourselves. DO WE? We should shouldn’t we? Yes or no? YES! We are the children of God are we not? YES WE ARE!


God WILL BE God. Can we help one another understand and apply that?  Maybe it is not as important to you as it is to me. I live in South Africa and things here are not perhaps as they are in USA, Australia, Canada and elsewhere regarding the raising up of the Chaldeans that God is causing as the raising scepter against those who have not known God and have ascribed to themselves the same arrogance as foretold in the story of King Nebuchadnezzar. To copy Ray, I speak as a FOOL!


There is NO escape for arrogance. NON. What we have is from God. Where we live is from God, what we think is from God what we believe is from God. God is GOD. God is calling the shots and I got shot down in the incident regarding the man who stood his ground regarding a pittance of R50….This showed me something about my-self and I did not like it and do not know how in the future to respond except to say to whichever thief, whichever Chaldean, I have nothing of yours and then not defend the issue further except to pass them over into the Judgment of God. Then, okay….Do I GIVE them the money so as to erase their guilt before God? Who else has done such a thing? Oh WE KNOW! Yeh, who was it again? Lord Lord, remember me….oops! Oh yea, how do we think we are going to have our names in His Book looking like His life being lived now in our times and our circumstances that is your life, my life, my issues and yours? How if we are too shy to say what we are doing that is pinching our consciences? Jungle 52 came in and declared his weaknesses and who heard or responded? Did you care? He has only a few posts. Not a likely candidate for the Kingdom right? What does he know? WRONG. Every new person here in this Forum is appointed by ….by.,…oh yea…you know Him….GOD! Yes that’s right GOD Himself. Done anything wrong lately needing repentance anyone? Well? Anyone! Oh, right, the temple is clean is it?

Oh can you see it too? Yes or no soberxp!  Have you answered me as you would have answered yourself had you been the author of this Thread? Think about that. Would you have? Were you offended by my post? Yes or no….? or did it delight you and open up an occasion for you to prove your holiness or superiority Beloved? Oh how these words hurt! Let me answer for you all. Of course NOT. NO NO! You me and all reading this have to see the edge of carnality come up as Roy more truthfully and sensitively responded to saying YES, I recognize in ME the failing for which you despair and declare. I too, like Paul have the same issues so YES Beloved, YES soberxp and YES Roy, non of us including ME have any self relieance! Did Paul? Did Christ HIMSELF have any self dependence? NO. There it is soberex. Yes or no and the answer is NO!  What was the question again?  WERE YOU OFFENDED by my post? NO or did it touch a nerve to see in me what is our mutual weakness before God? Guilty of one, guilty of all.

Are we offended by that? Aha….there is the real judgment question….ARE WE OFFENDED because we have NO power, NO say, NO authority over GOD HIMSELF? Is that the problem? Yes it is. Is that the issue? Yes it is. Is there anyone like God except Christ. No there isn’t. Is that a problem for you? Only if you don’t know that God IS MAKING YOU, and me and us and eventually them too, INTO HIS IMAGE.  The thief that steals the Chaldean that comes to kill pillage and destroy will be made straight in God's Hands once God has caused them to humble US. Are you with the US or the THEM> No No NO is the chorus but yes yes, yes is the truth. Have you lost me? Where am I going with this? Anywhere, somewhere or nowhere?
 
Hah….are we, you, I, us …..THEM….The THEM don’t even KNOW that GOD is in charge much less have any offence for what they do NOT know! We who SEE, to us is the sin and to them who are blind .…..well what does CHRIST say….?


Joh 9:39  And Jesus said, I have come into this world for judgment, that they who do not see might see, and that they who see might be made blind.
Joh 9:40  And those of the Pharisees who were with Him heard these words, and said to Him, Are we also blind?
Joh 9:41  Jesus said to them, If you were blind, you would have no sin. But now you say, We see. Therefore your sin remains.

Yes it remains and therein is the offense because we say WE See.  We do see but we do not change, repent or humble ourselves before God do we? Do we? If you do I am happy for you. I am not doing very well in my interactions in my mind with those who are more simple, less knowledgeable and lesser equipped to impress God in my eyes.  What impresses God? A humble and contrite spirit. No pride in there is there? So really, who is more equipped but the simple, humble and contrite spirit. How simple can you get!

We who know the Truth, to us, WE bear the greater accountability and hence the greater hurt for failing beyond our desire to succeed, be holy, be better, behave better in our interactions with the THEM in the world who do not know any better.  It is a hurdle in the trials and tribulations we have to encounter as did Paul in his quest for Christ acknowledging that he does not do what he prefers but thanking God for Christ, he moved on. So can we and so we should and only God can MAKE us succeed.

Mat 21:28  But what do YOU think? A man had two sons; and he came to the first and said, Son, go work in my vineyard today.
Mat 21:29  He answered and said, I will not. But afterwards he repented and went.
Mat 21:30  And he came to the second and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir; and did not go.
Mat 21:31  Which of the two did the will of his father? They said to Him, The first. Jesus said to them, Truly I say to you that the tax-collectors and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.

I do not do what I am supposed to do and it grieves me. Are you the kind of person you want to be? Yes or no? Only the wise perhaps can answer that yes or no does not answer the question. :)

Mat 9:11  And when the Pharisees saw, they said to His disciples, Why does your master eat with tax-collectors and sinners?

I don’t want to sit with sinners and eat with them do you? No! We are better than them, we are to separate from them right? NO!
And so are we part of the world that aches for the manifestation of the Sons and Daughters of God or are we over it. Do we now wait in anticipation, joy and expectation and longing for His return as did Paul who expressed

Rom 7:24  O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25  I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord!...

So yes, I, you, we should thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord in the face of not doing as we would prefer that carries right on down into the deeper  problems with our interactions with is “friends of the world” I prefer not to court yet this too is not what Jesus Christ did was it?

We have to do as Christ did who did not offend them but brought offence to His followers to whom He said…Hypocrite, you have the beam in your eye for you only see the moat in their eye. THEY HAVE A BEAM, I HAVE A BEAM,  (Repentance ref L Ray Smith) you have a beam and God help anyone who thinks they have acquired the prize that Paul only affirmed was waiting for him in his LAST letter to Timothy once he knew by advice from the Holy Spirit of Christ that his execution awaited him in Rome!

Only then, not before, could Paul say he was sure he had run his race well. Am I in the running? Are you? Yes or no? Many ARE called. That would be ALL of US..you, Beloved, Roy, soberex and all the eyes of those reading this too! The race is on!

Are we running.....which way are you running and are we running in the same direction or not? Are you sitting with sinners and eating with them? If you are, you are ahead of me. Well done! We begin by running, then walking and then we learn to stand! There in the standing is to be found the rest of God. What or Who, do you stand for? :) Yes... :)

Heb 12:1  Therefore since we also are surrounded with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight and the sin which so easily besets us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us

Eph 5:15  See then that you walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,
Eph 5:16  redeeming the time, because the days are evil.

2Th 2:15  Therefore, my brothers, stand fast and hold the teachings which you have been taught, whether by word or by our letter.
1Th 3:8  for now we live, if you stand fast in the Lord.

Php 4:1  Therefore, my brothers, ones loved and longed for, my joy and crown, stand fast in this way in the Lord, beloved ones,

..................... soberex, beloved, Roy, and all of you here participating or luking……yes you….!


Should I do a pole evaluation? :) No. That is not right.

Are YOU :
  
wrestling
running
walking or
standing?...Spiritually speaking. :)
 
What do others say you are doing? Who do others say that you are? What do YOU SAY?

Whom say the people that I am?
Luk 9:19  They answering said, John the Baptist; but some say, Elias; and others say, that one of the old prophets is risen again.
Luk 9:20  He said unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

Standing and "doing ideally to those who hate you" is the IDEAL that we should ideally be doing as Dr Carol kindly offered in the translation of Scripture offered for reflection and contemplation. Yes, and standing in our interactions within the world and each other is ideal. BUT 1Co 10:12  Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

What others think of us from a worldly or human perspective of approvals or agreements should, relatively speaking,  be non of our business or our concern,  but absolutely and before our God it is and will be! Relative v/s Absolute! The world v/s The Kingdom. The human v/s the spiritual and the beast v/s The King of Kings ABSOLUTELY it has everything to do with us ALL. Right?

Gal 6:10  As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

Arc

PS : Carol


--- Quote ---In order to help others be honest...One Suggestion     Use a calculator that prints out the transaction show it to him before you give change. Or use hand written duplicate receipt  that are dated and have the item information.
--- End quote ---

I do and God still sent him  ;) :D :)!

Billy Bob White:
Hi, Arc

And yes I am a lurker and have been for years.  I have read most all of your posts.  Some of them were pretty good and made a lot of sense; but I have to tell you this one makes absolutely no sense to me at all.  You put in numerous scriptures to prove your point.  None of them did for me.   However, I speak totally for myself.  I am going to give you a couple that Jesus himself said that he would do had the situation been with him.  And by the way, I believe that he meant that the same scriptures apply in South Africa, Canada, the USA and all the other countries on Earth.  And here they are:

Matthew 5:38-42  "You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'  But I tell you, do not resist an evil person.  If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.  And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well.  If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles.  Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from he one who wants to borrow from you."

In the spirit of Christ, love ya

B.B.W

DougE6:
Hello Arc
I have been facing the greatest challenge I have faced in a long time and your post comforted me.  It was quite a stream of thoughts, and I read them all carefully, but I have taken to heart the point I needed to hear.... God sent the man.  God sent the man to purify you, and God sent this situation to humble and purify me.  And you are right, we who have the knowledge have the greater accountability, and we can then judge ourselves.  as you say "Them" they think all their actions are of themselves as they are merely walking in the light given to them, as we are too! I hope you can take comfort that "them" their sole purpose NOW is to be used of God to raise you up as one of Gods chosen.  They will receive their blessings and trainings at a later time.  You can now be thrown into the pit as Joseph was, by his carnal and un chosen brothers,  but later, when you are over all of Egypt, you will not only give them the grain that they need, but you as Joseph, will interrogate and humble them, and be the fire that pricks their conscience and coerces them to much needed self evaluation and judgement.  Since we are being prepared for the high and loftly calling to rule and bring all the rest under Christs feet, let us try to not to grow weary in well doing.  Even if you think you handled the situation clumsily, your introspective self judgement and careful examination is truly inspiring. Please keep the deep rooted thoughtfulness that your posts always portray and I want you to know I needed to read what you wrote.

G. Driggs:
Thank you Arc for your honest post. We would have all done the same thing you did in the same situation. God meant for it to happen that way, and He meant it for good. It has certainly done me and obviously you some good!

G.Driggs

Roy Martin:
Hello again Arc.
 I will add a story from many years ago that some how seems to apply to your testimony.
 It was 1980. I didn't believe in God. I was managing a liquor/ convenient store combination in New Mexico. I had to fill in for and employee on Sunday. The liquor store side was closed. An old man came in. I saw him steal something. I walked over to him and ask what he took. He looked to be in bad shape. He shamefully removed from his pocket a bottle of Listerine. I asked what he was going to do with it. He said he was going to drink it for the alcohol in it. It was obvious he was an alcoholic and in bad need. I put the bottle back and told him, I will buy you a bottle of liquor as I proceeded to the liquor side and returned with it. I told him please don't steal. If it ever gets this bad again just ask me and I will buy you a bottle. I could see the shame in his old eyes as he thanked me, and left.
 I felt very sorry for this old man, which was very rare for me at that time in my life. That was the first and last time I ever saw him.

 This story isn't implying that that is what you should have done. You did what God wanted, and expected you to do. You will be looking at yourself for a good while because of your incident, as it is meant to be.
 As for the old man story. I never told that story to anyone. In fact I forgot about it for over 30 years. You are the second person I have told it to. I shared it with Silvia yesterday after reading your story.
 God gave me that story when I didn't believe in Him 30 years ago. He sent that man into the store to give me a testimony to be told now as I type. Imagine that.
Even I didn't have a clue about this story or its purpose until now. What affect it will have on you is not my call. I do know you will be affected by it. God doesn't give us testimonies to go to the way side.
 One more. Same store, a different day.
I noticed a man about to steal. He had that look. I walked to the end of the aisle he was standing in. He looked at me, I nodded my head no, and I walked away.He walked to the counter to pay for his bottle, and thanked me from saving him from going to jail. I could tell he was very sincere. I never saw him again.
 A quick run down of me as a manager. I went into this store as an assistant manager. They thought I could add something to the store. It was in the red big time, and no one before me was doing any good. I saw right away it was due to poor management and shop lifting. There was 15 employees. I caught the manager letting someone steal. I stopped it from happening. He went to jail for armed robbery, she got fired. I took her place. I fired all but one employee, and rehired my own selection of people. I was hard core on stealing. Everyone would go to jail, no exceptions. Sales went from $50,000 a month to $ 150,000 within three months.
 Why would I let these two people go? Any other time I would have let the man steal, and bust him sending him to jail with no mercy. Why did I warn him with a nod? Why did I have compassion for both of them when everyone before them and after them went to jail? You know the answer.
 These two stories were for me to share right now. Even I am thinking right now, wow! and I didn't believe in God, yet He gave me these stories, a non believer at the time, which has had no meaning all these years until now. Wow! That just stirs me up.
 All of us should gain from this story which in reality isn't my story at all. Its God story passed through me to you, and me, and all of us.This story and its purpose and meaning is as new to me as it is to you. Its for sure I'm thanking God right now.
 I'm sure someone if not many can apply many scriptures to this story.
 
Peace my dear sister in Christ
                Roy

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