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God, the Father
judith collier:
You would think from your replies that I said something about the Father being under the Son or something. All I questioned was the CREATION of Jesus. Of course He comes from the Father, He is the WORD of the Father.
COL, 3 vs 13-15 says Jesus is the IMAGE of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature.
That is not physical, but spiritual, the Father has no image, He is Spirit.
Likewise we are born into the image of God through the workings of Christ, the firstborn in the family of God. I do not think there is more than one God for heaven's sake.
I just don't think Jesus was CREATED by God but rather is God, has always been God born of the Holy Spirit that comes from the Father and into the Word (Jesus) (made alive by the Spirit)
and we have the same Spirit given to us when we are born into the family by Christ.
Jesus referred to Himself as I AM so he was always there in the Father, He was the Word made flesh. Made flesh, the Word was made flesh. Judy
Deborah-Leigh:
--- Quote ---He was the Word made flesh. Made flesh, the Word was made flesh.
--- End quote ---
Of course The Word was made flesh. Whosoever denies this, is anti-christ.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world. They refuse to acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. Any such person is a deceiver and an antichrist.
We are as the first Adam with the last Adam’s quickening Spirit within us.
We are not the Word made flesh.
Bottom line ~ We are as the flesh of the first Adam that is overcome by the Spirit of the last Adam in us.
We are a new creation both from, by and of God ~ a Work of God in progress. :)
Arc
Dave in Tenn:
We throw these words 'created by' and 'came out of' like we know what we're talking about. Why 'literalize' what is Spiritual, and figurative language to boot? Ray teaches that God is LIKE Father to Jesus Christ, not LITERALLY Father. If literal, then where is the mother? The truth is, the relationship is not LESS than Father/Son because it is not literal, but MORE THAN Father/Son. Those are the best words to 'describe' what the relationship is like, just as 'wind' is the best word to describe Spirit.
We can believe and trust ALL the scripture that tells us who the Son is. We do not have to pick and choose. But if we think we can fully understand them in flesh and AS LITERAL, then we're in for a very bumpy ride.
If you have problems with the truth that Jesus was/is created, perhaps you have too limited a view of "Creation". But I don't condemn because not one of us has perfect understanding, just idols of the heart. That's the way I see it.
Samson:
--- Quote from: Judy on June 08, 2010, 03:57:35 PM ---Kat, help me here. If Jesus is the WORD of God made flesh, then he was always with God. He is God. I don't believe He was created by the Father but being the Father's WORD He always existed within the Father, the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. The Father always existed, if not then tell me who or what created Him. Whatever is said of the Father can also be said of the Son. One in Being with the Father. Always!
Have to go now but anticipate your answer, Thanks ahead of time as you always do such a good job. Judy
--- End quote ---
Judy,
Also, to add to my previous Post, just as a side note; there was a Thread at General Discussions dating 08/13/08 entitled: John. 1-5, started by Roy Monis(He's no longer a member), you might want to check that out. Apparently, Roy felt there was difference between Created or Begotten in reference to Christ. Roy felt Christ always existed like The Father and seemed to forget that the word "Eternal" is not in the Bible, at least it's not supposed to be and applied a verse that had it to Christ. Well, there were some good replies from that old thread.
Kind Regards, Samson.
judith collier:
O.K, yes, Arc, I do not think we are the Word made flesh.
John, I see where you are coming from. If the Father exists as complete, then I can see where He sent forth His Word. Perhaps it is semantics here. The Father would be the Cause of the Son. But if I say Created then why does God Create something out of Himself who is already Complete?
I will try to find that piece. judy
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