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michael the archangel

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Marky Mark:
I believe in Hebrews 1 The Father makes a great distinction between the who and the what between His Son and the angels.

It would at least seem to me that The Son is more than an angel[messenger;pastor] being that The Father calls Jesus, His Son[child;begotten]. I think that The Son goes above and beyond the description of what an angel is,seeing that Jesus is The Creator and The Savior of ALL.


CEV
Heb 1:1  Long ago in many ways and at many times God's prophets spoke his message to our ancestors.
Heb 1:2  But now at last, God sent his Son to bring his message to us. God created the universe by his Son, and everything will someday belong to the Son. Heb 1:3  God's Son has all the brightness of God's own glory and is like him in every way. By his own mighty word, he holds the universe together. After the Son had washed away our sins, he sat down at the right side of the glorious God in heaven.
Heb 1:4  He had become much greater than the angels, and the name he was given is far greater than any of theirs.
Heb 1:5  God has never said to any of the angels, "You are my Son, because today I have become your Father!" Neither has God said to any of them, "I will be his Father, and he will be my Son!" Heb 1:6  When God brings his first-born Son into the world, he commands all of his angels to worship him.
Heb 1:7  And when God speaks about the angels, he says, "I change my angels into wind and my servants into flaming fire."
Heb 1:8  But God says about his Son, "You are God, and you will rule as King forever! Your royal power brings about justice.
Heb 1:9  You loved justice and hated evil, and so I, your God, have chosen you. I appointed you and made you happier than any of your friends."
Heb 1:10  The Scriptures also say, "In the beginning, Lord, you were the one who laid the foundation of the earth and created the heavens.
Heb 1:11  They will all disappear and wear out like clothes, but you will last forever.
Heb 1:12  You will roll them up like a robe and change them like a garment. But you are always the same, and you will live forever."
Heb 1:13  God never said to any of the angels, "Sit at my right side until I make your enemies into a footstool for you!"
Heb 1:14  Angels are merely spirits sent to serve people who are going to be saved.


Peace...Mark

soberxp:
good work Mark

Akira329:
zee325,

I tend to lean towards Jesus not being Michael

I believe Ray will be writing another paper soon on the subject of whether Jesus is God.
Which I think is relevant to this discussion
See link to email response:
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,12075.0.html

The chapter you brought up in Daniel, are we assuming this is a description of Jesus in the vision of Daniel:
Dan 10:5  Then I lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a certain man clothed in linen, whose loins were girded with fine gold of Uphaz:
Dan 10:6  His body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude.

if so.........

Dan 10:13  But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

Brings a question to mind and a few scriptures.
Does or did Jesus ever need help doing something?

Mat 4:6  And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Psa 91:11  For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.
Psa 91:12  They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Mat 4:11  Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.

Mat 26:53  Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?

Joh 1:51  And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.

From what I understand from these verses there seems to be a order to things.
If Jesus is not an angel than angels definitely influence him (psalms 91:11)
They keep him in his ways.

Angels are ministers of righteousness

Also one thing to keep in mind too:
I believe Ray said we shouldn't personify spiritual beings. Don't quote me on that but I believe I read that in the trinity paper.
That Jesus is a person not his Father neither things in heaven.

Again I don't know either but brought some things to consider.
Antaiwan

booker:
I don't think Jesus and Michael are the same by comparing ,Matthew 4:10  where Jesus rebukes Satan, and Jude verse 9, where Michael the Archangel “dared not bring a judgment of blasphemy” against Satan and calls on the Lord to rebuke him. And Hebrews 1 where it says "For to which of the angels did God ever say, ‘You are my Son; today I have become your Father’? Or again, ‘I will be His Father, and He will be my Son’?"


Since we are on the topic of angels.What do you think "Sons of God"in Genesis and Job refers to?

The three primary views that i know of on the identity of the sons of God are 1) they were fallen angels, 2) they were powerful human rulers, or 3) they were godly descendants of Seth intermarrying with wicked descendants of Cain.

The first view is supported by the Book of Enoch. The first part of Book of Enoch describes the fall of the Watchers, the angels who fathered the Nephilim. The remainder of the book describes Enoch's visits to Heaven in the form of travels, visions and dreams, and his revelations.

Aatos:

--- Quote ---Since we are on the topic of angels.What do you think "Sons of God"in Genesis and Job refers to?

The three primary views that i know of on the identity of the sons of God are 1) they were fallen angels, 2) they were powerful human rulers, or 3) they were godly descendants of Seth intermarrying with wicked descendants of Cain.
--- End quote ---

There's a fourth view, though it's not as popular.  They were the pagan gods.

Yeeah, not sure how I feel about that; granted it makes more sense to me than the sons of God being powerful human rulers, or godly descendants of Seth.

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