Just curious as to why Jesus did this..

[karenmarie]

Don't know if this is helpful or not -- I've heard teaching on the following through the years:

the twelve baskets collected the first time when Jesus feeds the multitudes represents the twelve tribes of Israel; Jesus coming to provide spiritual food to God's people.

the story of the woman who asked for healing for her daughter comes after this, where Jesus said the bread (spiritual blessings) was for the children (Jews) and she responded that the dogs under the table get crumbs, then Jesus rewarded her faith by healing her daughter.

right after that he goes into an area that had many Gentiles, and taught and fed the crowd. the disciples collected seven baskets of leftovers - seven representing ALL. The bread of life not restricted to only Israelites, a foreshadowing of Pentecost.

[mharrell08]

right after that he goes into an area that had many Gentiles,

What scriptures support this?

[karenmarie]

Was in a bible study a few years ago, the story of the Canaanite woman asking for healing for her daughter and Jesus telling her "It is not good to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs" (Matt. 15:26), and she responding by saying dogs get to eat the crumbs - anyway, a woman in the study was upset by this statement by Jesus. A few days later I heard a sermon on the radio, can't remember who, and still reflecting on the bible study discussion paid attention to the sermon and it stuck (most don't). I went to the bother of making notations in my margins of my bible so I have this -- Matt. 14 tells of the first feeding with 12 baskets of leftovers, Matt. 15 tells of Jesus going to Tyre and Sidon where he met the Canaanite woman, immediately after Jesus praises her for her faith (her response about the crumbs), he departs and goes to Sea of Galilee, and feeds the multitudes again, with 7 baskets of leftovers. The scripture used for support of his being in Gentile territory is Matt. 4:15, the prophecy of Isaiah saying "by the way of the sea, beyond the Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles - the people who were sitting in darkness saw a great light, and to those who were sitting in the land and shadow of death, upon them a light dawned." The pastor preaching commented on the spiritual meaning of the numbers 12 and 7, and I don't have a bible verse to support that.

So I throw all of this out there for comment, sorry if by relaying it I have caused trouble. I like to reflect on spiritual meanings that I have gleaned and learned from over the years but am glad to be corrected if wrong.

[mharrell08]

Was in a bible study a few years ago, the story of the Canaanite woman asking for healing for her daughter and Jesus telling her "It is not good to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs" (Matt. 15:26), and she responding by saying dogs get to eat the crumbs - anyway, a woman in the study was upset by this statement by Jesus. A few days later I heard a sermon on the radio, can't remember who, and still reflecting on the bible study discussion paid attention to the sermon and it stuck (most don't). I went to the bother of making notations in my margins of my bible so I have this -- Matt. 14 tells of the first feeding with 12 baskets of leftovers, Matt. 15 tells of Jesus going to Tyre and Sidon where he met the Canaanite woman, immediately after Jesus praises her for her faith (her response about the crumbs), he departs and goes to Sea of Galilee, and feeds the multitudes again, with 7 baskets of leftovers. The scripture used for support of his being in Gentile territory is Matt. 4:15, the prophecy of Isaiah saying "by the way of the sea, beyond the Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles - the people who were sitting in darkness saw a great light, and to those who were sitting in the land and shadow of death, upon them a light dawned." The pastor preaching commented on the spiritual meaning of the numbers 12 and 7, and I don't have a bible verse to support that.

So I throw all of this out there for comment, sorry if by relaying it I have caused trouble. I like to reflect on spiritual meanings that I have gleaned and learned from over the years but am glad to be corrected if wrong.

No need to apologize Karenmarie, I was just asking a question.

As far as the the prophecy of Isaiah contained in Matt 4:15, further in the chapter it speaks of Jesus going 'throughout Galilee, teaching in their synagogues' [Matt 4:23]. While the Gentiles had rule over the Jews [Matt 20:25], Jews were allowed to worship in their synagogues which is where Christ taught the gospel of the Kingdom. This is not to say the Gentiles did not come to see and be healed by our Lord, but as Jesus told the Canaanite woman, He was only sent to the Jews.

I think this foreshadows the Elect. Jesus does not 'come quickly' to everyone, but first to those who are called & chosen. That's why I was wondering, that one statement seemed to conflict with other scripture, that is all.


Thanks,

Marques

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Karenmarie,

I am going to address just one portion of your post, and I must add I am not in the least offended or troubled by what you wrote although I do believe this teaching you received from the person who taught it is in error.

Matt. 15 tells of Jesus going to Tyre and Sidon where he met the Canaanite woman, immediately after Jesus praises her for her faith (her response about the crumbs), he departs and goes to Sea of Galilee, and feeds the multitudes again, with 7 baskets of leftovers.


So I throw all of this out there for comment, sorry if by relaying it I have caused trouble. I like to reflect on spiritual meanings that I have gleaned and learned from over the years but am glad to be corrected if wrong.

Here is what is actually recorded in Matthew 15 in regard to feeding the four thousand;

Matthew 15

29And Jesus departed from thence, and came nigh unto the sea of Galilee; and went up into a mountain, and sat down there.

30And great multitudes came unto him, having with them those that were lame, blind, dumb, maimed, and many others, and cast them down at Jesus' feet; and he healed them:

31Insomuch that the multitude wondered, when they saw the dumb to speak, the maimed to be whole, the lame to walk, and the blind to see: and they glorified the God of Israel.

32Then Jesus called his disciples unto him, and said, I have compassion on the multitude, because they continue with me now three days, and have nothing to eat: and I will not send them away fasting, lest they faint in the way.

33And his disciples say unto him, Whence should we have so much bread in the wilderness, as to fill so great a multitude?

34And Jesus saith unto them, How many loaves have ye? And they said, Seven, and a few little fishes.

35And he commanded the multitude to sit down on the ground.

36And he took the seven loaves and the fishes, and gave thanks, and brake them, and gave to his disciples, and the disciples to the multitude.

37And they did all eat, and were filled: and they took up of the broken meat that was left seven baskets full.

38And they that did eat were four thousand men, beside women and children.

39And he sent away the multitude, and took ship, and came into the coasts of Magdala.

Jesus does explain what the deeper meaning of this miracle was but the churches never teach it they'd rather imply that the baskets of morsels that passed through many hands, laid (or tossed) on the ground, were prone to staleness and deterioration (remember this multitude had been with Him 3 days) somehow provided nourishment for many more people.

As you can see the "multitude" was not fed "leftovers" but with food (nourishment) directly from the hand of our Lord and Savior dispensed by His disciples.

They were not given scraps picked up off the ground, unrefrigerated, trampled on... what was actually done with these scraps is not addressed in the scriptures but the leftover bits and pieces such as this would be more suited to feeding swine than people...

Earlier in the thread I quoted what Jesus Himself actually told His disciples what He was showing them with this miracle, again it is the Lord's Word's directly, not my own interpretation or my own understanding.

Beware of the Leaven

I ran across this topic and thought to add some verses...

Matthew 16

5And when his disciples were come to the other side, they had forgotten to take bread.

6Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

7And they reasoned among themselves, saying, It is because we have taken no bread.

8Which when Jesus perceived, he said unto them, O ye of little faith, why reason ye among yourselves, because ye have brought no bread?

9Do ye not yet understand, neither remember the five loaves of the five thousand, and how many baskets ye took up?

10Neither the seven loaves of the four thousand, and how many baskets ye took up?

11How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?

12Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

Mark 8

14Now the disciples had forgotten to take bread, neither had they in the ship with them more than one loaf.

15And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod.

16And they reasoned among themselves, saying, It is because we have no bread.

17And when Jesus knew it, he saith unto them, Why reason ye, because ye have no bread? perceive ye not yet, neither understand? have ye your heart yet hardened?

18Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not? and do ye not remember?

19When I brake the five loaves among five thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? They say unto him, Twelve.

20And when the seven among four thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? And they said, Seven.

21And he said unto them, How is it that ye do not understand?

Last but not least;

Luke 12

1In the mean time, when there were gathered together an innumerable multitude of people, insomuch that they trode one upon another, he began to say unto his disciples first of all, Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.

Peace,

Joe

   

[G. Driggs]

Isn't bread awesome? I love bread, specially my wives fry bread.

G Driggs