> General Discussions
Hm...
chrissiela:
--- Quote from: nightmare sasuke on July 05, 2006, 06:38:49 PM ---
CLV translates Gen 2:17 differently.
--- End quote ---
Yes, I know. Was Adam created immortal? Or was he already dying? If he was not created immortal and was already dying, then is the penalty for sin a physical death?
It is appointed to men ONCE to die and then judgment. How does that reconcile with the fact that judgment had begun at the house of God (among those who are physically alive, right?)? So this cannot be a physical death right? Did Paul not "die" (he said he died daily) though he was physically alive? Is it not through 'death' that we attain LIFE?
Joh 12:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
1Co 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:[/list]
God's words are spirit and they are life. Right?
Maybe I'm just adding to the confusion. Sorry I won't say any more. :-X
Chrissie
Lightseeker:
Nightmare,
I'm not going to say too much, because I see man as spirit, soul, and body, and if I'm wrong I need to change. But since Ray has commented let me weigh in with this small bit addressing his post, since I think I see what you're saying.
Using Ray's teaching and analogy, how can one kill the TV/body and not kill the picture/soul. Not just turn the TV off mind you, which is spirit anyway, but 'kill' the TV. Using Ray's definition of soul I think I'm being fair in saying that the soul is the brain at work.
MAT 10:28 And fear not them which kill/to destroy the body, but are not able to kill/to destroy the soul/psuche: but rather fear him which is able to destroy/to destroy fully both soul and body in hell.
LUK 9:24 For whosoever will save his life/psuche/soul shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life/psuche/soul for my sake, the same shall save it.
LUK 17:33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life/psuche/soul shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life/psuche/soul shall preserve it.
0615 apokteino: to kill outright; fig. to destroy
0622 apollumi: to destroy fully (reflex. to perish, or lose) lit. or fig.
Hopfully this helps clarify what you're saying. This thread has moved a bunch since my last post and I could address several issues with questions but I'm still watching the 'new rules' for parameters. I am bound as a believer to the authority of this forum and would like to remain welcome. :)
Sorin:
Nightmare,
This is my understanding of what Jesus is saying. Do not fear those that can kill the body ( but remember when the body dies, it is seperated from the Spirit, therefore the soul also dies, and the Spirit, or God's breath of life returns back to Him) but fear Him who can Destroy both body and Soul in Gehenna. I understand that to mean, fear Him who has the power to destroy both Soul and body ( a spirit needs a body to become a living soul) into The Lake of Fire. So I don't think Jesus meant those who can not kill the soul as in those who can not literally kill the soul, I think the proper word Destroy is used and has reference to those who can not destroy the soul in the Lake of Fire. Because, Yes God has power to destroy a soul, but why would that be any different than what man can do? If it's talking about actually killing a soul? That's why I believe it is talking about being cast into The Lake of Fire, or casting into the lake of Fire which men obviosuly can not do. Just my understanding of it. Really not saying I'm right and you're wrong, and not trying to argue either.
Hope that makes sense,
Sorin
Sorin:
Also, if we consist of Spirit, body, and Soul (as three seperate entities)then verses like "...and God breathed into his nostrils the Breath of life (Spirit) and the men BECAME a living soul" wouldn't make sense, mentions nothing of God adding a soul ( as a seperate entity) to the mix. Just like you turn on your tv, the picture and sound BECAME (soul's emotions, memories...) on the screen. No?
hillsbororiver:
--- Quote from: Sorin on July 06, 2006, 01:42:35 AM ---Also, if we consist of Spirit, body, and Soul (as three seperate entities)then verses like "...and God breathed into his nostrils the Breath of life (Spirit) and the men BECAME a living soul" wouldn't make sense, mentions nothing of God adding a soul ( as a seperate entity) to the mix. Just like you turn on your tv, the picture and sound BECAME (soul's emotions, memories...) on the screen. No?
--- End quote ---
Good points Sorin,
Or we can use the light bulb analogy, the light bulb = body, the electricity = spirit (breath of life) when electricity enters the bulb we have light (life) when the switch is turned off the electricity is back with the power company and the bulb is dark (death). We have a bulb and electricity which when combined produces light but if you remove either the bulb or the power source you have darkness.
Yes, I see Jesus Words as spiritual more than physical as the first death is
"sleep" until the resurrection, whether it be the glorious 1st or to the Lake of Fire (2nd).
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