> General Discussions
Jude 1:6 vs 2 Peter 2:4 vs Rev.12:7????
Beloved:
Pastors/sheherd is an old testament term
H7462 רעה râ‛âh raw-aw'
A primitive root; to tend a flock, that is, pasture it; intransitively to graze (literally or figuratively); generally to rule; by extension to associate with (as a friend): - X break, companion, keep company with, devour, eat up, evil entreat, feed, use as a friend, make friendship with, herdman, keep [sheep] (-er), pastor, + shearing house, shepherd, wander, waste.
(Jer 23:1) Woe to shepherds destroying, And scattering the flock of My pasture, An affirmation of Jehovah.
(Jer 23:2) Therefore, thus said Jehovah, God of Israel, Against the shepherds who feed My people, Ye have scattered My flock, and drive them away, And have not inspected them, Lo, I am charging on you the evil of your doings, An affirmation of Jehovah.
(Jer 23:3) And I do gather the remnant of My flock Out of all the lands whither I drove them, And have brought them back unto their fold, And they have been fruitful, and multiplied.
There is only one reference to pastor in NT as you point out
(Eph 4:11) and He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as proclaimers of good news, and some as shepherds and teachers,
(Eph 4:12) unto the perfecting of the saints, for a work of ministration, for a building up of the body of the Christ,
Peter points out who these sheperds are
(1Pe 5:1) "Elders" who are among you, I exhort, who am a fellow-elder, and a witness of the sufferings of the Christ, and of the glory about to be revealed a partaker,
(1Pe 5:2) feed the flock of God that is among you, overseeing not constrainedly, but willingly, neither for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind,
(1Pe 5:3) neither as exercising lordship over the heritages, but patterns becoming of the flock,
(1Pe 5:4) and at the manifestation of the chief Shepherd, ye shall receive the unfading crown of glory.
Paul also confirms this`
(Act 20:17) And from Miletus, having sent to Ephesus, he called for the elders of the assembly,
(Act 20:28) `Take heed, therefore, to yourselves, and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit made you overseers, to feed the assembly of God that He acquired through His own blood,
(Act 20:29) for I have known this, that there shall enter in, after my departing, grievous wolves unto you, not sparing the flock,
(Act 20:30) and of your own selves there shall arise men, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them.
so yes there are good and bad undershepards / Elders that act as messangers/ malak/angels.
My point in posting is that this term pastor clearly has more "clerical" meaning to most people, it is therefore more selective, than the term messanger.
Does that means that todays apostles, prophets, evangelists and teachers
cannot be messangers or angels also?
I do understand that the greek word angellos does have in its route meaninge : to lead, to drove and bring tidings and I just see that this term has a broader meaning. It is not about the Who but the Message sent
Religion has already taken this term way and mesmerised it. they visulize it out of context and as winged persons and chubby babies and have even commericialized it.
We should be listening for His voice ourselves and who He sends
beloved
Deborah-Leigh:
Hi Samson~
I believe both you and Carol are saying the same thing from different perspectives. 8)
Harlot Babylon's apostles, prophets, proclaimers of “good news”, shepherds and teachers are their idols of status, required to be bowed to, revered, feared and obeyed by the laity. They like to receive acknowledgement and approval. They have their glory of men, not God.
Their pious words and titles, honors and distinctions, are awarded to those who best bow to the Beast and are become False Prophets of deceptions who Lord it over others.
Mat 23:5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
Mat 23:6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
Mat 23:7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.
Mat 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and ALL YE ARE BRETHREN.
In the Body of Christ, apostles , prophets, proclaimers of good news, shepherds and teachers are BRETHREN.
BRETHREN apostles, BRETHREN prophets, BRETHREN proclaimers of good news, BRETHREN shepherds and BRETHREN teachers are ALL in the process of salvation through Judgment on the House of God.
"For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the Image of the Son, that He might be the Firstborn among many BRETHREN" (Rom. 8:29).
Blessings Brethren
Arc
Samson:
Hi Deborah,
Yes, You have a gift(All is of God) of perception and reading between the lines, You answered well. It's true that many of these simple expressions: Overseer, Elder(Older Man), Shepherd, Deacon, etc, have received a special Ecclesiastical Label. Cyprian of Carthage and Ignatius of Antioch from the Second Century of Our Common Era helped initiate this process that eventually led to terms like Bishop, Cardinal, Archbishop, Reverend, Deacon(Servant) and other High sounding terms of office. Greek Words like Episkopos, Episkopoi, Presbyteros, Presbyteroi, Diakonos, Diakonoi gradually developed into these Technical Exalting Titles. Douglass New bible Dictionary states: " Among the Apostolic Fathers, Ignatius is the only one who insists on Monarchical Episcopacy, and He never states that this is of divine institution." Jerome of the fourth Century is quoted as saying that the supremacy of a single Bishop came about by custom rather than by the Lords appointment, being a means used to prevent divisions. The suggestion is also made that the Monarchical Episcopacy appeared in the local congregations when some gifted individual acquired a permanent chairmanship of the board of presbyter-bishops." PG, 158. The true sense of the word Episkopos took on a perverted meaning becoming the Title of Men who " lorded it over the flock;" Acts. 20:29-35; 1Peter 5:2,3.
Carol brought out the meaning of the Hebrew Word Raw' AW(Shepherd, to tend a flock) for added insight and that was good, :). I saw that word in My Strongs Hebrew/Greek Bible Dictionary last night, but was too lazy to include it in my Post, ;).
Thanks Deborah for explaining the distinction between the False Ministers/Prophets and the True Brethren in Your Post contrasting Matt. 23:5-8 and Your last paragraph about the Brethren & Romans. 8:29.
Kind Regards, Samson.
wisdom:
Thanks alot your responses were very helpful!
Deborah-Leigh:
Your kind words are appreciated Samson.
You have served well. Your research shows scholastic evidence of Babylon's "Technical Exalting Titles." which is not a practise among true Brethren of Christ.
Luk 22:25 And He said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors.
Luk 22:26 But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve.
Your grateful sister
Deborah
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[*] Previous page
Go to full version