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Marky Mark:
--- Quote ---Jesus is the Annointed One of the Father to save mankind. Speaking for myself, I can see the great evil and sin within me. I cannot even save myself. How can I possibly save or teach others?
--- End quote ---
What say Scripture?
Eph 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
Neh 9:27 and You give them into the hand of their adversaries, and they distress them, and in the time of their distress they cry unto You, and You, from the heavens, do hear, and, according to Your abundant mercies, do give to them saviours, and they save them out of the hand of their adversaries
Oba 1:21 And saviours shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the LORD'S.
1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
Joh 20:21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
Mat 10:40 He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
Luk 10:16 He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.
1Jn 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
1Jn 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
Peace...Mark
DougE6:
Hello John
2Co 5:20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.
It is not that God could not save the world without us, it is that God chooses to save mankind through our help! We are ambassadors, representatives, like Christ was! Obviously, we are not as good at the job as Jesus was, but we can always get better and better because we have Christ in us! Notice the word IMPLORE? Implore means to make an appeal in supplication, to 2. To beg for urgently; entreat. To make an earnest appeal
I get the impression that in Paul's evangelism he did whatever he could to win others...
1Co 9:20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law.
1Co 9:21 To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law.
1Co 9:22 To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some.
1Co 9:23 I do it all for the sake of the gospel, that I may share with them in its blessings.
1Co 9:24 Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it.
I want to win the prize. I would implore you :) to leave that attitude that those in the first resurrection are so predetermined that you should not seek the high calling, the heavenward calling in Christ Jesus. I do not think it is God intent at all that we should not seek this because "it is futile to even want to be in the first resurrection" John, God forbid that you should feel that way! Please don't!
You know how Ray says how He begs God for his insights? How if you want the blessings of God, you need to want them with all your heart?
Jer 29:13 You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.
Please please seek him with all your heart and strength and might. Covet the First resurrection. Make it the prize that you are willing to sacrifice for. Gain Christ and lose the world. Mar 12:30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.'
You remind me of this I HOPE FOR YOU THAT THIS WILL BE THE CASE>>>>Luk 14:8 "When you are invited by someone to a wedding feast, do not sit down in a place of honor, lest someone more distinguished than you be invited by him,
Luk 14:9 and he who invited you both will come and say to you, 'Give your place to this person,' and then you will begin with shame to take the lowest place.
Luk 14:10 But when you are invited, go and sit in the lowest place, so that when your host comes he may say to you, 'Friend, move up higher.' Then you will be honored in the presence of all who sit at table with you.
Luk 14:11 For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."
I hope your accurate appraisal and all to human appraisal of your self has humbled you and Jesus at the end will beckon you to a position at His marriage Supper far better than you expect, due to what you see in yourself. But be that as it may, EARNESTLY SEEK THE THINGS OF GOD< BEG HIM FOR HIS TREASURES INCLUDING TO BE PART OF THE FIRST RESURRECTION
Kat:
Hi doug,
I think I understand where you are coming from. But it is not up to us to decide if we will be in the first resurrection/marriage Supper or do good works or do anything at all, because we have no free-will. Don't you know many men have spent their whole life seeking the truth and never found it? It is only by God's grace that any of us know any truth at all.
Matt 13:16 But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear;
v. 17 for assuredly, I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
It's all up to God what we know and when we know it and if we will be used to share this with others. Now we do have a will/desires and make choices, but even those are ultimately caused by Him.
Here is an excerpt from an email.
http://bible-truths.com/email2.htm -----------
You state: "If God determines our footsteps. . .we have no will." Yes we do. And God even CAUSES our wills to come in line with His. Don't you ever pray: "Thy will be done in earth as it is in heaven"? "Not MY will, but THEY will be done"? If our wills are FREE FROM BEING FORCED OR CAUSED OR MADE to do anything, we couldn't even pray these words. That WHY we work out our own salvation in FEAR AND TREMBLING. Because we, of ourselves, CAN DO NOTHING, as Jesus plainly told us. It is a fearful thing to realize that we can do NOTHING on our own. We only THINK that we can. And if that is what we think then we are fools!
"So that, my beloved, according as you always obey, not as in my presence only, but now much rather in my absence, with fear and trembling, be carrying your own salvation into effect, FOR IT IS GOD Who is OPERATING IN YOU TO WILL as well as to work for the sake of His delight" (Phil. 2:12-13).
Even the very "words" that Paul is here speaking to the Philippians are inspired OF GOD to CAUSE these people (and us) to RESPOND to his admonition. Words are powerful. Words CAUSE THINGS TO HAPPEN. That's why God uses words:
"The WORD of God is LIVING and OPERATIVE, and KEEN above any two-edged sword, and PENETRATING up to the parting of soul and spirit... and is a JUDGE of the sentiments and THOUGHTS OF THE HEART" (Heb. 4:12).
v
And so, if all is of God (the good and bad), why does He hold us accountable for our sins and deeds? This time I will let Paul answer:
"For this selfsame thing I rouse you up, so that I should be displaying in you [Pharaoh] My power, and so that My name should be published in the entire earth. Consequently, then, to whom He will, He is merciful, yet whom He will, He is hardening. You will be PROTESTING to me, then, 'Why, then is He [God] STILL BLAMING [us for our sins]? for who has WITHSTOOD HIS INTENTION?'" Paul answers this way: "O man! WHO ARE YOU, TO BE SURE, WHO ARE ANSWERING AGAIN TO GOD? That which is molded [that's us] WILL NOT PROTEST TO THE MOLDER, 'Why do you make me thus [a sinner unable and unwilling by my own fabled 'free will' to ever do what is right]?' Or has not the potter [God] the right over the clay [us mortals] out of the same kneading to make one vessel, indeed, for honor, yet one for dishonor?" (Rom. 9:17-21).
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mercy, peace and love
Kat
DougE6:
Yes, NONE of us know tomorrow. None of us know Gods plan for tomorrow. So we have to do our best every moment of every day. We do not know which of our plans, if any, will succeed. This is very important. Because we do not know tomorrow we have to do our best to achieve any desired outcome, even if it is Gods plan purpose will and intention to bring it about!!!! The only reason the gold medalist wins the gold medal that God had already long ago fore ordained, is that the drive, the hard work, the effort, the practice, the circumstance was ALL there to MAKE it happen. If any of those causes were not present, NO gold medal. SO God causes all those things, to make it happen.
Yes, in the big picture it is all of God. God creates the drive to work hard, and the acumen to do what others fall short. But we are unaware of his influences. And God PROVIDES CAUSES like a coach that helps keep the athlete on track, to shore up flagging spirit when necessary, to be an encouragement to make it happen!
There is no way that John will EVER be an overcomer if you have the attitude that it is useless to try!!!! Let us be the COACH for one another! Does that make sense? Don’t let this free will understanding becoming a hindrance. Do not let this be. For all intents and purposes, we live our lives doing our best in every situation. That is why we need to pray. We need to pray so God will bring about these circumstances and allow us to become the Overcomers.
I am trying to implore all, including John, that a fatalistic attitude is NOT the correct response to our understanding of no free will. The entire New Testament was written for our admonition to become Overcomers, not to become discouraged because we think we are not included.
prarrydog:
--- Quote from: Moises on January 01, 2011, 01:56:28 PM ---Claudia, for the time I have been reading on this forum and for what I know you, I think you are a very considerate person when posting too. (and also when sharing)
Craig, I think you must see all this coming when making this kind of post, didn't you?
I will give just another perspective, regarding the first posts and the main one, I can also kind of see it on a different way. If we are to care so much for the ones that are starting to read and coming little by little out of the church system. This kind of main post. Could give them some incentive to somehow make it harder for them to come out, and maybe for whatever reason in their mind justify certain wrong doctrines with good deeds, or something of the alike.
However, on the other side this is a forum to discuss this kind of topics, and here is our environment to be able to tell what we silent on other environments that we have to deal with, places where nobody really cares (or get scared) of our points regarding this kind of topics.
And about this pastor making such a good deeds, good for him.
I few days ago I made a post regarding profit, and it got some very good replays, talking about what is common for rich and poor alike.
Still I agree with you Craig, on levels of evil, the actions of this pastor are much less evil than the spiritual drug addicts of The Megachurches.
Moises
--- End quote ---
15 minutes on their website will show you that they are no different than any other of the churches. This thread should not have been started. Some here are concerned about offending others however I believe posting a link to an article about a false church with the following statement "Looks like this church is starting to get it? I wonder what they are really like?" should be much more offensive to us for the sake of new members and guests. My opinion is this thread should be deleted.
p.s. Marques...You quoted this verse earlier
Matt 18:6, Mark 9:42, & Luke 17:2 whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
however I don't believe it applies here as this church obviously does not believe in the real Jesus. Please correct me if I am wrong.
with love
Scott
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