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DougE6:
Hello Kat
you are correct in that I think we should spread truth and witness. Did not Paul say "Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? His ministry was to take the gospel to all the gentiles. Of course Paul understood the fullness of this Gospel. He wrote so many of the verses we love that speak of the full redemptive plan of God! Paul could not be shut up! I am not saying that the full truths must always be preached to everyone all the time. I am not saying go out and dispute with others. But my goodness, the Love and righteousness that it takes to TRULY become an overcomer...it is not how well we can debate it is how we are showing the Love of Christ in our thoughts, actions, and lives.
Thank you Walt for that timely reminder of Love. Love is greater than knowledge! It says in that very passage you quoted, special knowledge will become useless. Yes Yes that is why I am so set on how our love is being proven and not on what you know!
Do I see some contradictions? Yes I do, in that, the ones who have arrived, in that we know that God will save all, that we know there is no eternal hell, that we know we must overcome the flesh, the world and the devil, to make the first resurrection, that we WILL if we are of the Elect...we should be the salt of the earth so that all men would see our good works and give God praise for it! It is wonderful to give of yourself and your substance to help others. Why is so little of service or reaching out ever talked about or emphasized? This message is so powerful.. It calls one to repentance, to righteousness, and it shows God to be fair and loving. Why not preach it?
It is wonderful to expose those who contradict. It has been done, and masterfully. I read and reread all the time. But is that the only point? Is this a great work of God? Many great works start based on correcting error, but now what? Show ME the MONEY!! taking these beautiful and profound truths, PROVE them by letting us be changed... and not hiding them under a rock or a bushel, but taking them to the world in our actions, in our words and deeds, this seems to be the whole thrust of the gospel. Please forgive my exuberance, but I think if (I say if rhetorically) IF we are converted, if we do understand, then our LOVE should exceed that of Babylon, and I dont mean in doctrine, I mean in real life actions.
judith collier:
DougE6, sounds good to me. I don't know how one can be full of god's love and not act. Or to do an act one doesn't want to do but because of love of God they do it. But I think some are afraid of getting into pride doing good works. If we know Christ is in us and "THEM" then I mostly feel I am serving Christ. Without that knowledge there would be some I would leave behind without that drink of water given them. I don't worry about it because it is natural to like some more than others. It is supernatural to love them all.
What helps me is the thought that God loves them and I try to do the best i can, especially if a person has ongoing needs. I am fully aware of the beast within and that feeling of pride but after many many yrs. when one has died somewhat to themselves it is easy to spot it rearing it's ugly head.
If a person is aware of their ego (their false self, the beast) and how it operates then one will not take on too much like the ego would have them do. There are no fantasies or carnal imaginations that can't be spotted after awhile when the Holy Spirit works in you.
Jesus said the most important commandment was to love God and love our neighbor, with God's help I do a bit here and there. Just a fact anymore, more like a good habit but nothing to write home about! They usually help me learn more of the depths of that ugly creature residing within, especially when they are not thankful and appreciative. God bless them. Judy
DougE6:
hello John from Kentucky
I agree with everything you said but I don't see your conclusion! :) Funny how that can be, eh? We can agree on those facts but completely see a different response. You are right that it is not Gods plan to save everyone now, and yes, only He is capable of doing it. And yes he will save everyone eventually, and yes the major harvest will take place in the next age. Your illustration of the feasts is spot on.
But we are not privy to whom God is calling now. None of us know the particulars or the future. At all. And this is intentional on God's part. And He is calling and choosing some now. And God has intentionally not told us who and when and how many He is calling and choosing. And if we think we can put a number on it, and decide that it is such a small number that we can be justified in not trying our best for Him now, I think that is not good thinking. Please excuse my frankness.
I want to do my very best! I want to hear Well done my good and faithful servant. I want to gain 2 talents from the two talents given, or 1 talent from the one talent given, or 10 talents from the 10 talents given. I do not want to hear, "you wicked and slothful servant, you knew I was a demanding taskmaster and you did nothing to gain interest on what I gave you. You hid your talent and did nothing. Therefore I will take from you what I gave you and give it to the ones who were faithful and worked hard to gain a good return on what I gave.
Jesus was obedient to the uttermost and so should we be. He gave his all. That is the requirement to sit on the throne with Him. The apostle Paul gave his all. He said he fought the good fight. What a great thing to be able to say at the end of your life. DO NOT HIDE behind what you think is the plan of God to excuse you not going out and reaping a harvest. That is what your arguement seems to be saying to me. Gaining the first resurrection and Jesus praise and throne is a pearl of great price to be sought after, to be prized above all things. I believe doing the works of God means that we will be reaching out to others, to gain a harvest. If you do this, I believe God will give the increase. An olympic athlete, trains really hard. God may have fore ordained the gold medal, but the path to it involves a lot of work. If you are doing the work, it is because God has a harvest for you to reap. Yes God causes it. But He does not take away the hard work and faith involved to reach the objective, to win the race.
cjwood:
--- Quote from: Kat link=topic=12633.msg110816#msg110816 date=1293819416
[quote ---However, on the BT website, I feel free, in that here there are others with like minded understanding. I feel I can let my guard down. I can read and discuss things that I couldn't discuss among the general public. Among fellow mutants, I can speak openly.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---If I am not to offend anyone who may read this website, then I need to keep silent, like I do in everyday life, because I perceive that what I believe is offensive to the majority of people. I have no desire to offend people just for the heck of it.
--- End quote ---
It's not that we should not speak these truths because that will offend the church goers that might be here, we should just be mindful of others when we speak.
these statements by john, and the last one by kat, really hit home for me. there have actually been many other statements made by members on this thread that have hit home for me, or hit me over the head. ;)
i am having much trouble of late, trying to figure out how we on this forum can honestly discuss the milk, or meat, of the scriptures, without someone else being offended by our words, whether that someone be a guest, newbie, longtime member, or moderator.
the statement above by kat especially hit hard, because i know that personally i write, and edit, and reread, and think a little bit longer about the subject, and then write some more/edit and reread, before i ever finally post a comment because i am always being mindful of the others who will read my words. i don't believe anyone who has posted on this thread, especially those at the beginning of this discussion, are not also always considering those who will be reading the things they say.
claudia
Kat:
Hi Claudia,
I think you are a very considerate person when posting :) What I meant about being mindful of others, is just that harsh comments rarely help, but more often hurt. Our words vibrate out and touch many people that come here and a post remains and will continue to touch people. So I feel that there is always a way to make comments that are encouraging and helpful without being harsh, rude, sharp, callous or mean, even when talking about the church. This is just the way I think.
Hi Doug,
--- Quote ---I believe doing the works of God means that we will be reaching out to others, to gain a harvest. If you do this, I believe God will give the increase.
--- End quote ---
Yes there must be works or fruits of the spirit, love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control (Gal 5:22-23). I believe that these are reflected by His spirit indwelling towards all those we come in contact with. It is not so much intentionally trying to share this truth with others as much as it is in showing love through our words and actions at all times. This to me is how you let your light shine and not hide it under a basket, people will see the truth in you, because it is revealed in the way you live. We are given constant opportunities to let our light shine in all the little everyday way we interact with family and people we associate with at work or even the cashier at the store.
If you see what I'm saying, our works are to do good/love others, by our attitude towards all people all the time.
Gal 6:9 And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart.
v. 10 Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all, especially to those who are of the household of faith.
But I am not saying that we should not share this truth with anybody if the opportunity arises. Surely if God sends someone to us with questions that we can answer with this truth, it is a blessing to be able to share it.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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