> General Discussions
Spiritual Journey Dilemma
Chris R:
--- Quote from: hillsbororiver on January 28, 2011, 03:54:39 PM ---Hi Everyone,
Psa 119:2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.
so if we use what He has given us up to right now, if we live within the wisdom He has shown us presently, if we diligently follow Christ's example, we are promised even more of a revelation of God, a deeper understanding of His plan and purpose for all of us. Sounds like a fair deal. Doesn't it?
Think about it, did we get more privileges (or a higher allowance) as a child before we met the obligations our parents set before us?
Did we get to high school before graduating grammar school?
Promoted to a better job before mastering our present job?
You get my drift...
Peace,
Joe
--- End quote ---
Hello Joe,
I couldnt help but notice something I hadnt before, In the verse you had quoted,[Psalm 119-2] does the blessing come BEFORE the knowledge...or After?....Think about it!
Is it Bless-ed is....or just plain Blessed! Obviously the blessing IS keeping His Testomonies, And if your blessed, then I reckon It is not by our choice....see what i'm saying?
Chris R
hillsbororiver:
--- Quote from: Arcturus on January 30, 2011, 08:23:01 AM ---
Very well edified Joe!
Our choices are our preferences.
Our preferences arise from our heart condition.
Our experiences purge to strengthen, our weak hearts.
God writes our circumstances to purge and purify our preferences to bring us into right standing with Him.
Potter and the Clay.
Arc
--- End quote ---
Amen to that Arc!
Peace,
Joe
Kat:
Hi John,
We are held accountable for our actions for good reason, because we desire from our heart to do the things we do. Yes God is the ultimately responsible, but we are the one who choose to do what WE want to and will be held accountable. Here is an email that explains this.
http://bible-truths.com/email11.htm#responsibility ----
[Ray Replies]
Dear Chris:
You ask how one is held "accountable" when he only did what he HAD to do? I actually do answer this in my paper, but let me relate it for you. God has NOT given man 'free' will (the ability to make UNCAUSED choices), all of man's choices are CAUSED BY SOMETHING. But the man DOES MAKE THE CHOICES!
When you or I are confronted with a decision to either do something that we know is right, or know is wrong, we weight the options and MAKE THE CHOICE. God has absolutely given man a brain that has the ability to process information. Man CAN process information and make a choice. But it is the information itself the causes the choice one way or the other. The man cannot make a choice WITHOUT some form of information that influences or ultimately CAUSES him to make a choice. NO ONE MAKES US MAKE THE CHOICE, even other unforeseen circumstances and information DOES MAKE OR CAUSE US TO CHOOSE! True, circumstances beyond our control, which we do not see or even perceive, do cause us to MAKE a choice, but ... BUT, IN OUR OWN HEART AND MIND, WE MAKE THE CHOICE -- not someone else or something else.
But "it's all GOD" Who is ACTUALLY doing it, isn't it? NO, YOU, ACTUALLY, ARE THE ACTIVE PARTICIPANT WHO IS DOING IT! God merely brings about the circumstances that INFLUENCE AND CAUSE YOU TO DO IT!
Now then, pay close attention to what I am saying: Why are we held accountable for something that we absolutely COULD NOT HAVE AVOIDED? Why? Because at the time we made the 'voluntary' (not absolutely 'FREE,' but 'voluntary') CHOICE, it was in OUR heart and in OUR mind to DO SO. And if the choice was WRONG, or SINFUL, then WE, not GOD, must be held accountable. God takes the "responsibility" for what we did -- hence He DIED ON A CROSS FOR US, but WE are accountable for our SINFUL WRONG CHOICES.
This is the only way man will LEARN right from wrong! Adam and Eve were 'TOLD' right from wrong, but not until they actually 'EXPERIENCED' right and wrong, did it make sense to them. IT IS WRONG TO SIN WHETHER WE WERE COERCED TO COMMIT SIN OR NOT. "The DEVIL MADE me do it." It matters not, YOU DID IT and are therefore accountable.
Juveniles commit MILLIONS of crimes and sins for which they are not RESPONSIBLE. But, nonetheless, our own court system HOLDS THEM ACCOUNTABLE. And even human, carnal, judges take this factor into consideration when handing out penalties.
It is the PENALTY that also CAUSES US TO CHOOSE RIGHTLY after we have chosen WRONGLY! When we burn our fingers on a hot stove, we LEARN to not touch a hot stove.
God has developed a "ways and means" to accomplish His righteous end, plan, and purpose. And God's ways are VERY WISE -- they WORK, and they work very well! We have this absolute promise from God:
"When Thy JUDGMENTS are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world, WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS" (Isa. 26:9)!!!
God be with you,
Ray
DougE6:
You know, as I reread through all this banter, specially between myself and John, I think it is the word "effort" that seems to be the hangup. I think that No free will and great effort coexist quite peacefully, and they do not contradict. Just because God arranges the causes, we still decide from our hearts condition, which God is very well aware of. And God does not do the actual lifting, so to speak. He makes us actually DO IT! It is in the doing that great effort can be required. It was very tough and took great effort for Jesus to carry out what God inspired Him and gave Him the heart to do. God never takes away the doing.
Ray has said this many times. From the opposite side, from an evil work, God may arrange the causes or circumstances that are in action when a child molestor does his ugly stuff. But God can hold and does hold the molestor accountable because he sins VOLUNTARILY. He sins from the heart, and his actions spring from his heart, even though it was inevitable that he would do what he did. He still is guilty, not God. God is not at fault or the sinner in the situation. Even though He steers eveything. The means, the man, still does the actual action, and this action requires effort, energy, and all that is required in doing an action.
My point still is the Bible is full of admonitions that we MUST judge ourselves against and strive to do. The Bible is a cause in this instance. As God changes our hearts, and gives us the strength, we can fulfill the admonitions and do the works. But we DO not know how far we are away from this obedience unless we try to obey. We must always try to obey, and more and more try to learn how to depend on God and let God, through this, change us so our preferences are the same as Jesus preferences. We MUST WRESTLE< IT IS NOT BIBLICAL TO NOT TRY TO OBEY>
hillsbororiver:
Hi Chris!
Great to hear from you Brother, it has been at least a couple years...
In regard to your comment I guess it would depend on what the definition of "blessed" is, in this case it is defined as happy.
H835
אשׁר
'esher
eh'-sher
From H833; happiness; only in masculine plural construction as interjection, how happy!: - blessed, happy.
But I think even if we use the broader definition or what immediately comes to mind when we hear the word blessed, that is "shown favor" or
given a gift, or born with an incredible talent, etc.
We might say both of your premises hold true, if anyone is given a certain amount of faith or wisdom and they do not exercise that faith or wisdom (or both) do they retain it? Do they continue to grow in faith and/or wisdom. However if these things are embraced by the receiver then the ensuing result would be an increase of these things.
The parable of the talents come to mind...
Matthew 25
14For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
15And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
16Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
17And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
18But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
19After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
20And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
21His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
22He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
23His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
24Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
25And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
26His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
27Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
28Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
29For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
Peace to Brother and I am very glad to see you here posting!
Joe
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