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The physical SUN
Marky Mark:
--- Quote ---Everyone I have known has accepted that the Sun is the center of our Universe.
--- End quote ---
To Gods elect, that is precisely what we should believe in,that The Son is the center of our universe within our hearts and minds and to dwell in that universe is to dwell in heaven,with Christ Jesus. I have come to realize that the universe that is within us all is of a far more complex and intricate vacuum then the physical one that lies without.
It amazes me sometimes that when we read Scripture we all have a tendency to look more so at the outward application of the Word and gloss over the real meaning of what is being said,that being,the Spiritual significance of Gods Word. Remember Christ himself says that His words are Spirit, His Words,not ours,but His. We of ourselves cannot add life to His words,only God can do that. People have been debating science for hundreds, even thousands of years and the best that we can come up with is only what The Lord causes humanity to understand,right or wrong.
Lets face it, the best any carnal human being can come to realize in the big scheme of things basically comes down to being self righteous,as in,am I right and what's in it for me (I want my reward and I want it now). As long as the beast sits on the throne we will never be able to be pure of heart. After all ,is this not why we are on this planet to begin with,to learn righteousness and follow in Jesus' footsteps?
If we can put on our Spiritual thinking caps and really read what the Lord is causing us to see,if one has been given the Spiritual eyes to see,a whole new universe will open up,leaving the physical understanding secondary to the primary Spiritual one. As it has been repeated many times here,we have to read all the words. Although all of the Word of God has an outward application it is not the primary way of coming to the understanding of what is being said. When we look for the inward meaning of what the Word is saying through Scripture then the purpose of the Word shines like the sun,as in,our Son.
Jesus The Christ is our S-U-N.
Instead of thinking the word sun is what is being spoken of here in Ecc1:5 lets try to see that the true reference given is 'The Son'.
Take a look at the Rotherhams version of the verse in question.
If we come from an understanding of what Ray has taught us about Scripture being symbolic and that the Bible is one giant parable the verse below and all of Gods Words start to release a higher Spiritual meaning than what is being said outwardly.
Doing a word study can be most advantageous.
Ecc 1:1 The words of the Proclaimer, son of David, king in Jerusalem.
Ecc 1:2 Vanity of vanities! saith the Proclaimer, vanity of vanities! all, is vanity.
Ecc 1:3 What profit hath Man, in all his toil wherewith he toileth under the sun?
Ecc 1:4 Generation, goeth and, generation, cometh, but, the earth, unto times age-abiding, remaineth.
Ecc 1:5 And the sun, breaketh forth, and the sun, goeth in,—yea, unto his own place, he panteth, from whence he brake forth.
Ecc 1:6 Going unto the south, and circling unto the north,—circling, circling continually, is, the wind, and, over its own circuits, returneth the wind.
Ecc 1:7 All the streams, flow into the sea, yet, the sea, is not full,—unto the place whither the streams flow, thither, do they again flow.
Ecc 1:8 All words, are weak, unable is any man to tell,—not satisfied is the eye by seeing, nor filled is the ear with hearing.
Ecc 1:9 That which hath been, is the same that shall be, and, that which hath been done, is the same that shall be done,—and there is, nothing new, under the sun.
I do not want to come across as being condescending in any manner because that is not my intention,Lord forbid. But I would like my brothers and sisters to come to an understanding that when we are steeped in the physical/literal side of what The Word of God has given us we then miss the whole point of what Christ is trying to convey to us, t-h-r-o-u-g-h His words, which are...
Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Our life in the flesh will amount to no more then a hill of beans when His Spiritual Words bring forth His Glory within.The Spirit is Life.The flesh and all that it represents is for naught....
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Amen.
Hope this helps some friends. Thanks for allowing me to throw a few penny's into the mix.
Peace...Mark
indianabob:
Folks,
In re: the sun our source of matter and physical energy.
Who knows whether God told Adam that the earth orbits around the sun and that the earth rotates upon it's axis, thereby illustrating the regulating of the seasons and the sequence of days and nights.
Further that Adam knew that the Moon orbits the earth in a particular fashion different from the sun's planets of which the earth is the preeminent one.
I don't believe that we should assume that Adam and Eve were ignorant Neanderthals.
The apparent fact that this information didn't "trickle down" to Adam's progeny does not prove that Adam was unaware of this and many other facts of astrophysics and geophysics.
Pro 25:2 It is the gloryH3519 of GodH430 to concealH5641 a thing:H1697 but the honourH3519 of kingsH4428 is to search outH2713 a matter.H1697
Pro 25:3 The heavenH8064 for height,H7312 and the earthH776 for depth,H6011 and the heartH3820 of kingsH4428 is unsearchable.H369 H2714
Drew:
--- Quote from: Dave in Tenn on May 04, 2011, 08:37:41 AM ---Drew, no apologies necessary. If this thing has been on your mind for years, it is only because the Lord has caused it to be there. Just be aware that He causes things for reasons we do not always understand until after the fact--if even then. He sets us up, and knocks us down. Blessed be the name of the Lord. :D
Thanks for your understanding.
Do good.
--- End quote ---
Post initial post I have had time to read responses and to cogitate on them. I seem to be getting at least some partial understanding of why this question has been rolling around my brain for all these years. In the fullness of time the question was put to the perfect audience; the only one that could possibly have helped me to see, and probably others, that it is the spiritual significance that matters not the physical. I went from packing up and leaving town to gaining spiritual understanding that I wouldn't have if I had packed up. Sincerely, this day has been uplifting, to say the least. Thanks to Him and all who have been a part and the day's no over yet. "Humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God..."
Drew
Kat:
Concerning the sun and the Son, here is an email from Ray.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3838.0.html ------
Is this a typo in Malachi 4:1-2 (KJV- The Thompson Chain-Reference Bible, 1964), or is it in relationship to the “SUN” gods, and not the true “SON” of God (Jesus Christ)?
“For behold, the day is cometh that shall, burn as an oven; and all he proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble; and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. But unto you that fear my name shall the SUN of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.”
1. Is this designed to deceive and confuse, leading the minds of people away from the True God of Righteousness?
2. Why calves?
3. What of the stall?
4. Some translations have “its wings”, not his wings, since when is Jesus referred to as the ‘SUN’, or by ‘IT’?
5. Are the Scriptures that corrupt from the syncretism of…World Religions?
Thank you for your time and Scriptural insight, even if you’re not able to respond at present.
Sincerely,
Jerry
Dear Jerry:
I am not an authority, but I believe that capitalizing the word "sun" in this verse is a mistake.
Jesus is likened to "The Morning Star" rather than the sun and the moon which symbolize other things. Whether it read "his" or "it," matters not, but the "sun" I believe should be a small "s."
Rotherham will give you a better understanding of the "Calves"--"So shall the sun of righteousness arise to you who revere my Name, with healing in his wings, And you shall come forth and leap for joy LIKE CALVES LET LOOSE FROM THE STALL." Did you ever see "calves let loose from the stall?" Or "cats let out to play for a few hours?" Well, trust me, thats real joy.
God be with you,
Ray
Kat:
And here is another email from Ray concerning the sun and moon as symbol.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4974.0.html ------
Because Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath, and the moon is the sign of the Son of Man, and the Sabbath is a sign (Exo 31:13, Eze 20:12), we should keep the Sabbath according to the phases of the moon! (Gen 1:14, Jer 31:35, Jer 31:36, Eze 22:26, Rev 2:17, Isa 66:23)
COMMENT: Nonsense, Johan! Jesus Christ is NOT "the sign of the Son of Man," and "the moon is a symbol of Jesus" is unscriptural nonsense. Neither is "the sun a symbol of God." Johan! Most of the PAGANS AND HEATHENS used the sun as a symbol of God, but you won't find that in the Scriptures. The moon is reflected light. Jesus is not the "reflected" light of Jesus The light of the moon represents the truth given to the CHURCH. And that is why "the moon shall be turned to BLOOD." The love of God given to the Church will be turned into hatred and evil and bloodshed by the Church. it is sacrilege to associate Jesus with the moon. The light of Jesus comes from WITHIN, it is not reflected by the moon:
"And the city had NO NEED of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of GOD did lighten it, and THE LAMB IS THE LIGHT THEREOF" (Rev. 21:23)! Yes, we need to "look up," but looking up in Scripture does not mean to look UP IN THE SKY AT THE SUN AND THE MOON, but to look up on HIGH, to SPIRITUAL things.
During the crucifixion there was an eclipse of the Moon.
COMMENT: Nonsense, Johan. An eclipse of the moon does not cause it to darken during the day. And an eclipse of the sun which does cause it to darken during the day, last for only a few minuts, NOT FOR THREE WHOLE HOURS
(Matt. 27:45)!
(Mar 15:33 And when the sixth hour was come, there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour.)
The Moon has cast its shadow over the Earth. This also implies New Moon (Dark Moon) and high Sabbath!
(Joh 19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.)
COMMENT: I'm afraid that statement is too convoluted to even comment on. For a million dollars I could not tell you what the point of that statement is supposed to be. Sorry. Your email is too long, Johan, I just don't have the time. Hope you understand.
God be with you,
Ray
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