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Does God have 'Free Will'?

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Deborah-Leigh:


An excellent summery Claudia!

As is the Alpha, (first) AND (last), the Omega, is ~ I AM.

So too can free (without cause) and will (with cause) be One ~ :)

Arc

Akira329:

--- Quote from: Arcturus on July 03, 2011, 02:03:13 AM ---

An excellent summery Claudia!

As is the Alpha, (first) AND (last), the Omega, is ~ I AM.

So too can free (without cause) and will (with cause) be One ~ :)

Arc



--- End quote ---

huh ???

Stacey:
Claudia, I was thinking about the counsel of His will also but have almost came to the exact opposite conclusion as you. Strange how we all of supposed like minds are not all that alike sometimes.

I could be way off base too and thinking the opposite of what Ray teaches but not intentionally. Was thinking on this thread all night last night and can't get it out of my mind. Seems that if we agree that "with God all things are possible" AND that God, more specifically the Father has no free will then something is out of line here. At least for me anyway.

The verses that marques used to show that God is subject to the counsel of His own will are good ones but I have a lot of questions about those verses.

Eph 1:11  In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will

Isa 46:10  Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things that are not yet done, Saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, And I will do all My pleasure,’

I'm not trying to prove anything here. Just making an effort to work out my own salvation in accord with like minded believers.

I was looking closer (paying close attention to all the words) at these verses and to me there is a issue with who it is that is subject to his own will. All the words are important but the him's, he's and the counsel words give a stronger clue as to who it is that has the counseled will. What is a counseled will? After looking up the word "counsel", to say that it is a will subject to advise is a good definition for that.

To say that Jesus is subject to the counsel of his own will is exactly what I believe the verses are saying but, BIG but, what do the verses NOT say? They do not say that the Father is subject to anything and that is where the water gets muddy. Are there verses that say otherwise? At this point I am not prepared to say or agree that the Father is subject to ANYTHING. Jesus, yes by all means, He is subject to the counsel of his own will which is controlled by the Father and we likewise are subject to the counsel of our own will. To work it according to or to be subject to the counsel of is to not be in control of the counsel and also to be below it, isn't it? This counsel we are talking about is the surrounding circumstances that influence our decisions right?

I'm not settled on any of my thinking here yet. Might not get settled til after the resurrection either but considering the "will we ever see the Father" thread and this one, they are related in ways that led me to what I have said above and also to understand a little better just who or what the Father really is. Thank God. No, thank the Father!

Craig:
Folks I'm going to lock this thread now because it is just one of those threads that there is no correct answer and how can we come to an agreement on that?  Half fall in to the camp John was espousing and half with what Marques was pointing out.  I personally think they are both right and I may someday get into politics :D.  One may be right and one wrong or neither right or they both are right and they are just eating the same banana from opposite ends.  The problem here is we are trying to assign human reasoning to God and that does not work.  How can we, using our puny human terms and reasoning, try to define Gods sovereignty, reasoning and actions?

I appreciate the thread staying civil and respectful to each other.  This is one of those discussions that we can agree to disagree on and discuss it one day while playing a harp on a cloud somewhere.

Craig

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