> Off Topic Discussions
The most important question
Deborah-Leigh:
Jesus Christ is alive, the cup is past, it is finished.
Arc
G. Driggs:
--- Quote from: John from Kentucky on July 20, 2011, 12:22:54 PM ---Marques is correct. That cup did not pass from Jesus.
Also, I respect Jesus for asking that the cup pass. Who in their right mind would want to go through torture? This shows me that Jesus was not a nut but had a sound mind.
Another lesson I learned from that prayer of Jesus. If the Father said no to Jesus, then the Father won't hesitate to say no to me. Many things that I have asked for in prayer, I have received an answer from the Father of NO!
--- End quote ---
Would you also agree that maybe Jesus was showing His human side? The side of humanity that is weak in the flesh? Seems this is one of those times Jesus was being tempted to give in to His flesh when He asked to have the cup pass from Him, but His Father wouldn't let Him.
Here is an "important question".
Mat 20:22 But Jesus answered by saying to them, "You don't know what you are asking! Are you able to drink from the bitter cup of suffering I am about to drink?" "Oh yes," they replied, "we are able!"
Sorry I know a little deep and off topic in the off topic board, my bad.
Since this discussion has gone where it has gone, I couldn't help it.
Here is something from Ray I missed before, where it seems Jesus changed His prayer from "let this cup pass" to "if this cup MAY NOT pass from me".
http://www.bible-truths.com/emails.html
From the King James:
"Likewise the Spirit also helps our infirmities, for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered."
This marvelous Scripture, however, does not bring out the whole truth contained in the Greek manuscripts regarding this verse, in the King James Version. Here is a better translation.
From the Concordant Literal New Testament:
"Now, similarly, the spirit also is aiding our infirmity, for what we should be praying for, to accord with WHAT MUST BE, we are not aware, but the spirit itself is pleading for us with inarticulate groanings."
"With WHAT MUST BE..." There is the answer! And here is the perfect application of this verse in the real world:
"And He went a little further and fell on His face, and prayed saying, O My Father, IF it be possible, let this cup pass from Me: [but that was NOT POSSIBLE! God had already PREDETERMINED that Jesus SHOULD drink this cup, and therefore, IMMEDIATELY recanted to the prodding of the Holy Spirit and said the following...]: nevertheless not as I will, BUT AS THOU WILL ['to accord with WHAT MUST BE']."
Then Jesus prayed again, WITHOUT asking God to take the cup from Him:
"He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O My Father, if this cup may NOT pass away from Me, except I drink it, THY WILL BE DONE" (Matt. 26:39 & 42).
Clearly Jesus was CAUSED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT to pray "in accord with WHAT MUST BE."
-----------------------
Peace to ALL
G.Driggs
G. Driggs:
--- Quote from: Arcturus on July 20, 2011, 02:53:17 PM ---
Jesus Christ is alive, the cup is past, it is finished.
Arc
--- End quote ---
Good point Arc! It did pass, AFTER Jesus drank it. I don't see any disagreement here. Your initial response confused me a bit Arc, until I read that part I quoted from Ray. Maybe you should have included your above quote with your first response? Just sayin. ;)
Jesus kept watching and praying so as not to fall into temptation after He asked to let the cup pass knowing the flesh is weak, but the spirit is willing.
Mat 26:40 Then He returned to the disciples and found them asleep. He said to Peter, "Couldn't you watch with Me even one hour?
Mat 26:41 Keep watch and pray, so that you will not give in to temptation. For the spirit is willing, but the body is weak!"
Mat 26:42 Then Jesus left them a second time and prayed, "My Father! If this cup cannot be taken away unless I drink it, Your will be done."
What a great example for the disciples and us! When your feeling weak pray for strength. Where have I heard that before?
Luk 11:2 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.
Luk 11:3 Give us day by day our daily bread.
Luk 11:4 And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.
Just to try and stay semi on topic, the most important question, who, what, when, why? I haven't a clue, sorry. ;D
G.Driggs
John from Kentucky:
--- Quote from: G. Driggs on July 20, 2011, 03:15:08 PM ---
--- Quote from: John from Kentucky on July 20, 2011, 12:22:54 PM ---Marques is correct. That cup did not pass from Jesus.
Also, I respect Jesus for asking that the cup pass. Who in their right mind would want to go through torture? This shows me that Jesus was not a nut but had a sound mind.
Another lesson I learned from that prayer of Jesus. If the Father said no to Jesus, then the Father won't hesitate to say no to me. Many things that I have asked for in prayer, I have received an answer from the Father of NO!
--- End quote ---
Would you also agree that maybe Jesus was showing His human side? The side of humanity that is weak in the flesh? Seems this is one of those times Jesus was being tempted to give in to His flesh when He asked to have the cup pass from Him, but His Father wouldn't let Him.
Here is an "important question".
Mat 20:22 But Jesus answered by saying to them, "You don't know what you are asking! Are you able to drink from the bitter cup of suffering I am about to drink?" "Oh yes," they replied, "we are able!"
Sorry I know a little deep and off topic in the off topic board, my bad.
Since this discussion has gone where it has gone, I couldn't help it.
Here is something from Ray I missed before, where it seems Jesus changed His prayer from "let this cup pass" to "if this cup MAY NOT pass from me".
http://www.bible-truths.com/emails.html
From the King James:
"Likewise the Spirit also helps our infirmities, for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered."
This marvelous Scripture, however, does not bring out the whole truth contained in the Greek manuscripts regarding this verse, in the King James Version. Here is a better translation.
From the Concordant Literal New Testament:
"Now, similarly, the spirit also is aiding our infirmity, for what we should be praying for, to accord with WHAT MUST BE, we are not aware, but the spirit itself is pleading for us with inarticulate groanings."
"With WHAT MUST BE..." There is the answer! And here is the perfect application of this verse in the real world:
"And He went a little further and fell on His face, and prayed saying, O My Father, IF it be possible, let this cup pass from Me: [but that was NOT POSSIBLE! God had already PREDETERMINED that Jesus SHOULD drink this cup, and therefore, IMMEDIATELY recanted to the prodding of the Holy Spirit and said the following...]: nevertheless not as I will, BUT AS THOU WILL ['to accord with WHAT MUST BE']."
Then Jesus prayed again, WITHOUT asking God to take the cup from Him:
"He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O My Father, if this cup may NOT pass away from Me, except I drink it, THY WILL BE DONE" (Matt. 26:39 & 42).
Clearly Jesus was CAUSED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT to pray "in accord with WHAT MUST BE."
-----------------------
Peace to ALL
G.Driggs
--- End quote ---
Hi,
I don't have any problems with the scriptures you quoted.
But you say maybe Jesus was showing His "human" side. What does that exactly mean? What other side did He have? He didn't have a split personality like the christian churches falsely teach--- a divine side and a human side.
He gave up all the power He had before His human birth. He was made a little lower than the angels. The breath of life came into Him and He became a living nephesh, a living human soul, subject to death.
Jesus said that He could do nothing Himself. That the Father in Him, the Father did all the works. I get that. Jesus said that there is no one good but one, God. I get that too. His words are the basis of my beliefs that we have no good in us either, and we can do nothing of ourselves. That any good in us comes only from God in us. God does all the works. He gives us both the will and the to do.
The night before He died, He knew that He was going to be terribly beaten, that He would be nailed to a stake and suffer for hours, then be stabbed to death. I understand fully why He prayed to God asking, if it were possible, that another way be found other than what was to come. He would have been a total psycho if He didn't ask for a way out. The Spirit of God is the Spirit of a sound mind. This Spirit doesn't do crazy things.
He prayed to the only One Who can get things done. The Father said NO. That was it. The Father's word is final. The Father got Him through those terrible trials. Jesus stood tall, He didn't whine or beg, He didn't have a pity party. He accepted His lot through the power of His God. I'm proud as punch as to how He conducted Himself.
John
Kat:
Hi G. Driggs,
--- Quote ---Would you also agree that maybe Jesus was showing His human side? The side of humanity that is weak in the flesh? Seems this is one of those times Jesus was being tempted to give in to His flesh when He asked to have the cup pass from Him, but His Father wouldn't let Him.
--- End quote ---
Yes Jesus was flesh and blood and knew what was coming, remember what was already written about Him in the OT.
Psa 22:14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.
Psa 22:15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.
But the Father must have really been longsuffering to watch His Son go through all that. He most certainly did not ignore His Son crying out in agony :'(
Luke 22:43 And an angel appeared to Him from Heaven, strengthening Him.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version