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Question from Denise (Revilonivek)
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: Revilonivek on July 25, 2011, 09:33:42 PM ---
One thing in the meantime, the scriptures say Jesus learned obedience through suffering. What does that word suffering mean?how did he learn? What defines sin? We can't even suffer without making mistakes, we reap what we sow, it's our rewards and punishments. how do you suffer without sinning? I have never heard of anyone learn anything without sinning and realizing the consequences still. It's how we suffer.
--- End quote ---
You need to re-read the posts given to you because the answer to this is up above and ill quote it for your benefit. Though I don't agree that the being we knew as Christ in His earthly form and now as the Son of God (though He always was the Son) in His spirit form learned obedience only once He suffered in His human form. I Just can't see that being the truth, though it might be...
QUOTING DAVE IN TENN
Lastly, you seem to be saying that Christ's sinlessness negated the 'suffering' you think He endured by your contention that He was a sinner and needed to repent, etc. You and I must live in very different spiritual universes. To be tempted in all points--yet without sin--IS suffering, and suffering on a scale you and I can't match. Surely you don't think resisting evil is easy. Don't you think Someone who resisted unto Blood and, according to Scripture, never sinned could learn obedience from His suffering? When did 'obedience' become 'disobedience'? Isn't obedience the thing He learned?
God bless, and yea.. slow down, take a step back and breath :)
Dave in Tenn:
You're right about that, Alex. For reference, check out the "Did God Ever Do an Honest Day's Work?" study. Nothing has come about easily. He's earned His name above every Name.
Deborah-Leigh:
Thank you for your challenging questions and readiness to listen Denise.
Pioneers reach out of the box beyond the painful break points of traditional mind patterns that keep humanity locked in bondage to errors of false belief.
Keep on keeping on ~ :)
Arc
Marky Mark:
--- Quote ---Mark I see what you are saying but here is a question. Was Christ perfect when He created the earth?
--- End quote ---
Yes.
--- Quote ---Was He perfect when He and the Father began creating man in their image?
--- End quote ---
Yes.
--- Quote ---I know you mean the physical Christ made lower than the angels, but Christ was before he was born of Mary.
--- End quote ---
Yes Craig,I am speaking of Jesus the man. I believe Jesus was perfect[complete;whole] before he emptied Himself and was born in the flesh. But when He gave up His power in heaven I believe He relinquished His perfection by becoming human.No human being can enter the kingdom in flesh and blood bodies, that is why Christ had to die.
1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world
Since Christ was a man born of the flesh,that flesh had to die just like our flesh has to die in order to be raised from the dead and enter into the kingdom of God.
Luk 24:26 Was it not necessary for the Christ to go through these things, and to come into his glory?
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
--- Quote ---but Christ was before he was born of Mary.
--- End quote ---
Craig,are you saying that if the Father had not raised Jesus from His physical death that He could have raised Himself because of His perfection before His earthly existence?
Thanks,
Mark
--- Quote ---I agree Mark, I was only speaking in the relative sense of Jesus time on earth. That's the example He left for us, taking up one's cross to the point of death. In that regards He 'finished' or completed His work. Jesus had no hand in His own resurrection, that was of the Father.
Hope you understand as I was speaking on a much smaller scale than you.
Marques
--- End quote ---
Hey Marques. Thanks for the reply and I now understand what you were saying and I couldn't agree more.
Peace...Mark
Revilonivek:
Questions, questions, ha.
Just something to help me understand.
Was the Holy Spirit always with him since he was conceived by the Holy Spirit? Or was he filled by the Holy spirit in the form of a Dove at his baptism?
I have a question...
According to Romans 8:7-11
It is basically saying, as long as we are still carnal minded, we don't have the spirit, and if we are no longer after the flesh, we have the spirit in us.
So basically, when you have the spirit in you, you are considered sinless? It says basically that the spirit can't dwell in a mind that is still carnal.
The temple of our bodies need to have the Spirit of God present in it to allow us to do His service. I Cor 3:16-23; II Cor 5:20
It would make sense that he can't sin because he has the Holy spirit in him. It's not in their nature to sin.
Was Jesus filled by the Holy Spirit at his baptism or was it always with him since he was conceived. I'm just trying to make sense of this. Jesus' mom is a human being, so Did Jesus inherit her carnal nature as every man does? Is it how he struugles? But the scriptures were clear that holy spirit cannot dwell in bodies that are still carnal minded?
How did Jesus overcome the world if he always had the Holy spirit, as holy spirit cannot sin nor live in a body that is still carnal minded? I'm trying to make sense of it.
Denise
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