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Question from Denise (Revilonivek)
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: Marky Mark on July 25, 2011, 01:35:06 PM ---Marques,I do not believe that Jesus was perfected or made complete until he was resurrected.
Joh 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
Joh 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
Luk 13:32 And he said unto them—Go and tell this fox, Lo! I am casting out demons, and, cures, am I finishing, to-day, and to-morrow,—
Luk 13:33 and, on the third, I am to be made perfect.
His resurrection on the third day became the cause for our salvation.
Heb 5:9 And being perfected, He became the cause of eonian salvation to all who are obeying Him,
When Jesus was dead in the tomb, He had not yet been quickened.
1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
Rev 1:17 ..... I, am the First, and the Last,
Rev 1:18 and the Living One,—and I became dead;—and lo! living, am I, unto the ages of ages, and have the keys of death and of hades.
Peace...Mark
--- End quote ---
I agree Mark, I was only speaking in the relative sense of Jesus time on earth. That's the example He left for us, taking up one's cross to the point of death. In that regards He 'finished' or completed His work. Jesus had no hand in His own resurrection, that was of the Father.
Hope you understand as I was speaking on a much smaller scale than you.
Marques
G. Driggs:
HI Denise,
Just to backup and agree with what has already been said. We are not totally helpless. Jesus gives a "down payment" of His Spirit to help us overcome.
Quote from Ray, a bit long but I hope you will read it. It's very encouraging. :)
http://www.bible-truths.com/lake8.html
First I want to call your attention to a most important fact concerning the word "overcometh" in the KJV. Notice that it is not in the past, as in "has overcome" or "overcame." It is in the Greek aorist tense. It shows a CONTINUING ACTION. The Greek is "to the overcoming" or "to the one overcoming" or "to the one conquering." I point out this continuous action to show that Christ does not want any to start and then stop. We must always continue "conquering and overcoming."
We have learned that when we repent and turn to Jesus Christ, He gives us of His Holy Spirit (the earnest—the start, the beginning, the down payment, if you will). Look now at the first reward promised the Churches:
TO HIM THAT OVERCOMES…
"To him that overcomes will I give to eat of the tree of LIFE…" (Rev. 2:7).
That is the beginning of real spiritual life. If we continue in this new spiritual life, we will not be hurt by the "second death" which is the "the lake of fire."
"He that overcomes shall not be hurt of the second death" (Rev. 2:11).
Now we are safe, right? We can now rest on our laurels, right? Wrong.
"To him that overcomes will I give to eat of the hidden manna" (Rev. 2:17).
We can’t grow spiritually unless we eat SPIRITUAL FOOD. When we eat of Christ’s spiritual body, we grow spiritually; when we stop eating spiritual food we spiritually starve and spiritually die. If we eat spiritual food, we grow, we mature, we are "continuing in Christ’s word" and Christ word is spirit and therefore spiritual food.
What is our next reward if we "continue" overcoming?
"…and will give him a white stone and a in the stone a new name" (Ver. 17)
Now we learned that this stone is really a pebble which is a symbol for a ballot, which acquits us of guilt and justifies us, allowing for our admission or entrance into the Kingdom, signed and signified by Jesus Himself. If we continue to overcome, this white signed, ballot stone of entrance into the Kingdom is waiting for us with OUR NAME on it. Remember "as Jesus is, SO ARE WE…" His name is OUR name. If we continue to overcome, we will be given another great reward.
"And he that overcomes and keeps my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations" (Ver. 26).
Say, did you notice that most important phrase, "keeps my works UNTO THE END?" Do you suppose there was a purpose for adding those words at this place in the rewards? You know there was. We must "keep on, keeping on." We cannot look back. We cannot fail to continue in Christ’s words and works. We must take up our cross. We must suffer persecution. We must "fight the good fight." We must "keep the faith." We must "pray without ceasing." And we must make it to the end,
"And you shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that endures TO THE END SHALL BE SAVED" (Matt. 10:22).
THEN we will be qualified to have "power over the nations." But reigning requires that we be RIGHTEOUS. We must reign the nations with spiritual power, not with military might. Our motives and our love must be PURE.
"He that overcomes, the same shall be clothed in white raiment" (Rev. 3:5).
The "white raiment" is the same "clean white, fine linen" of Rev. 19:8, "for fine linen is the righteousness of the saints" (Ver. 8). When we attain to this degree of overcoming, God makes an absolute promise to us:
"I will NOT blot out his name out of the book of life" (Ver. 5).
Just how high do the rewards of Jesus to the overcomer go?
"Him that overcomes will I make a PILLAR IN THE TEMPLE OF MY GOD" (Ver. 12).
A pillar is a main support in a temple. It speaks of a position of GREAT DISTINGUISHED RESPONSIBILITY at the Spiritual Headquarters of the entirety of the universe in Mt. Zion. But if He is going to give us ALL THAT HE HAS, He expects us to do as He DID and become what He IS.
"To him that overcomes will I grant to sit with me on My throne, EVEN AS I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in His throne" (Ver. 21).
We are to overcome "even as" Jesus Christ conquered and overcame. What was it that Jesus Christ "overcame?" John 16:33,
"These things I have spoken unto you, that in Me you might have peace. In the world you shall have tribulation: but BE OF GOOD CHEER; I HAVE OVERCOME THE WORLD!"
Jesus Christ overcame EVERYTHING IN THE WORLD, INCLUDING THE WORLD! And here is God’s command to the believer who would become an overcomer and conqueror in Christ Jesus:
"Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world, If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world [which MUST be overcome and conquered!]" (I John 2:15-16).
We are to also "overcome the world" just as Jesus did. Not by ourselves, but by Jesus "Christ IN us, the hope of GLORY." Christ lives His life IN the believer, and in the believer Christ will, "overcome the world," over and over again in each new believer. And then one day, Jesus Christ will say to YOU, "Sit with Me on My throne—We are going to save the Universe together."
---------------
Check out my sig, another quote from Ray, and a reminder to myself.
Peace,
G.Driggs
Joel:
Hi Denise
We can rest assured that God knows our getting ups, and our settings down. He has his Son that has spent time here on this earth just like us, and knows trials and tribulations fist hand, and can truly be a mediator for us.
Here is how we overcome; 1 John 5:5
Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
1 John 5:12
He that hath the Son hath life; he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
Jesus is the Son of God, born of the Spirit of God, and he also was the Son of man born of a virgin.
Jesus had a will, he made choices just like we do in our everday life, he had the advantage of knowing evil from it's beginning, we come to know evil and its devices over a period of time.
He didn't separate himself from humanity, but was a friend to publicans and sinners, as the scriptures state.
Jesus loves us and layed his life down for us, we overcome by the blood of the Lamb and the word of our testimony.
If we confess him before men, he will confess us to the Father. Matthew 10:32
It's a good thing to think on the humanity of Jesus, and the fact that he knew the things he would have to suffer, before the foundation of the world.
We should have faith, that the good work he has started, he will see to completion. :)
Joel
Revilonivek:
Hey everybody, hang on..I just took my family to tybee island for a couple days, but I promise to write back When i get back home. It is hard to be in the right mind when on vacation:)
After reading your posts, you guys give excellent information. I need to reread them to really take it in, but once I do that,i'lw write back:)
One thing in the meantime, the scriptures say Jesus learned obedience through suffering. What does that word suffering mean?how did he learn? What defines sin? We can't even suffer without making mistakes, we reap what we sow, it's our rewards and punishments. how do you suffer without sinning? I have never heard of anyone learn anything without sinning and realizing the consequences still. It's how we suffer. How did he suffer to learn obedience? For us, as human beings, we learn obi den e through the knowledge of good and evil.
Jesus said he overcame the world, how did he overcome the world without sinning once? What defines suffering and what is the difference between learning obidence through suffering. We suffer bec we sin.
Help pls
Thanks so much
Denise
lilitalienboi16:
I honestly cannot imagine hebrew chapter 5 being about Christ in His human form learning obedience through the earthly sufferings He experienced and being made perfect at that time.
I find it so hard to believe that In the beginning, when the all was created as we know it, that Christ was not already perfect like His Father. I Just can't believe the God of the old testament ( or atleast the Son that the 'all things' came through) wasn't perfect yet or expected us to obey Him and all His commandments yet He Himself didn't know obedience... I Just can't see that.
WARNING: SPECULATION;
I can see Christ completing everything imaginable as living a human life without sin and dying for us as being made "perfected" or as Samson put it, "complete, IT IS FINISHED." I suppose this would be experiencing everything that a being could possibly experience. But if that's what it took for Him to be "perfected" in the complete sense, then what of the Father? Dare we say the Father is not "perfected" (I think not!) since He hasn't come and experienced this human living business, or did He become "perfected" in a galaxy far far away in some place we could never imagine long before we were ever a thought in His being?
I thought ray was going to write an article about this anyway, anyone know if that's still coming? I'd be very much interested in reading it.
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