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I'm naked, are you?.....let's huddle.
G. Driggs:
Seems Ray is saying to be spiritually naked means to be carnally minded. Meaning there was nothing good or spiritual about Adam and Eve, they had nothing "on" that was spiritual.
Here is an email reply I found.
http://www.bible-truths.com/email12.htm
Dear [omitted],
Thank you for your email and comments. And let me parrot your sentiments by saying: "I pray this will not upset YOU" what I have to say in response to your email. While I can certainly appreciate some of the statement you make, nonetheless, the premise of your email is in error.
You state: "What they had [Adam and Eve], I can only dream of having. They knew what good is without evil, good in it's purest form!"
Well, if what you want is what Adam and Eve had BEFORE they ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, then I have news for you: You can stop dreaming. You REALLY DO ALREADY HAVE what they had!! That's right! Your ALREADY possess what they HAD! I have it too! But I am not as thrilled over this possession as much as you seem to think you would be if only you had it. You do have it, I have it, Hitler had it, Saddam STILL has it, in his jail cell in Iraq. ALL MANKIND HAS IT. It's called "THE CARNAL MIND," and it's not a pretty thing either: "For to be CARNALLY MINDED is DEATH; but to be spiritually minded is LIFE and PEACE.
Adam and Eve did not eat of the forbidden tree and disobey God because they were "spiritually minded" or because, "they knew what good is without knowing evil, good in it's purest form" as you suggest. THEY WERE TOTALLY CARNAL. The were 'NAKED'--This was not just a physical fact, it was a SPIRITUAL REALITY. They were spiritually NAKED just as everyone else who thinks they have sufficient spirituality to live righteously by their own carnal mind:
"Because you say, I am rich and increased with goods [they owned all in the garden; it was ALL FOR THEM] and have need of NOTHING [how could they have need of anything if they already possessed, "good in it's PUREST FORM' as you suggest? But there's was a problem with Adam and Eve just as there is with ALL OF US. We DO NOT possess proper knowledge {without the tree of the knowledge of good and evil}, and therefore we like Laodicea...] ... and KNOW NOT that you are WRETCHED, and MISERABLE, and POOR, and BLIND, and [SPIRITUALLY] NAKED" (Rev. 3:17)!!!
If they already knew good (inside of their very spirit and innermost being), good in it's PUREST FORM, then how could ANYTHING, influence, persuade, cause, or MAKE them manifest the root causes of EVERY SIN ON EARTH? Notice it carefully:
"And when the woman [1] SAW THAT THE TREE WAS GOOD FOR FOOD [lust of the flesh], and that it was [2] PLEASANT TO THE EYES [lust of the eyes], and a tree to be [3] DESIRED TO MAKE ONE WISE [pride of life], she TOOK [stole, disobeyed, lusted after the flesh, put an idol before God, worshiped her own presumed but false goodness, helped cause her husband to sin, hid themselves, LIED to God about it, tried to pass the buck and blame others for their sin, etc., etc., etc., and a dozen other sins] of the fruit thereof, and did eat..." (Gen. 3:6).
And so, were Adam and Eve REALLY "good without knowing evil?" Did they really have "good in it's PUREST FORM?" Or did Eve having nothing but a spiritually naked and carnal mind that did NOT possess the love of God in any way, shape or form? Let the Scriptures answer. Notice what Eve did:
Lusted with her FLESH, wanting to EAT the forbidden fruit.
Lusted with here EYES, because it seemed so pleasant to her carnal mind.
Was filled with PRIDE, desiring worldly WISDOM.
Now let's compare Eve's sin with what John tells us are the three root CAUSES OF ALL SIN:
"Love not the world, neither the things are are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is NOT IN HIM. For [here's the reason why] ALL that is in the world, [1] the LUST OF THE FLESH, and [2] the LUST OF THE EYES, and [3] the PRIDE OF LIFE, is not of the Father, but is of the world" (I John 2:15-16).
There we have the exact three sins of Eve! And I assure you on the authority of Jesus Christ and the Word of God that these are NOT, 'good in it's purest form.' We must all be CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST and then be CLOTHED WITH HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS, before we will have even a hint of "good in it's purest form."
There is no knowledge of good without a knowledge of evil! That is WHY God put both good AND evil IN THE SAME TREE; IN THE SAME FRUIT.!!
God be with you,
Ray
-----------
Good question, with an answer I did not know and always wondered about.
G.Driggs
Marky Mark:
--- Quote ---6And the woman seeth that the tree [is] good for food, and that it [is] pleasant to the eyes, and the tree is desirable to make [one] wise, and she taketh of its fruit and eateth, and giveth also to her husband with her, and he doth eat;
7 and the eyes of them both are opened, and they know that they [are] naked, and they sew fig-leaves, and make to themselves girdles.
Why Genesis 7 and a ‘physical’ application as a follow-up to a ‘spiritual’ nakedness? What’s the latter to do with the former?
Not seeing it.
gk
--- End quote ---
Hey Gary.
I would have to say when God Spiritually opened their eyes to the condition that they were in and realized that they had fallen short and missed the mark of the Lords command their own carnal heart thought best to cover up their mistake the only way any carnally minded man or woman could, which would be to cover themselves in their own self-righteousness [the fig leaf] and not seeing the need for the Lords righteous covering in their own lives, ie; taking upon themselves to fix their own spiritually weak and dead condition.
That is what the carnal heart will always think,my ways or my own coverings will suffice in my life thereby leaving out Gods righteous coverings in and of His Spiritual Truths. When we see things with Spiritual eyes instead of fleshy ones His Righteousness will prevail within.When we put our ways above Gods ways we then miss the mark and are blinded by our Spiritually dead condition [our nakedness].
Isa 61:10 I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.
Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
Just my two cents.
Peace...Mark
Joel:
Innocent and naked before God, and guilty and naked before him are two different things, Spiritually speaking.
There is a difference between a baby and an adult when it comes to bare skin. ;D
Genisis 3:11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? ???
Joel
Marky Mark:
--- Quote ---The whole story may be a parable. God will have to let us know if anything in the story of Adam and Eve literally occurred.
--- End quote ---
Hey John.
I don't think you can base a parable on something that is not based on reality or truth. Notice a parable is a fictitious narrative based on common life,and not a comparison based on fiction.
G3850
παραβολή
parabolē
par-ab-ol-ay'
From G3846; a similitude (“parable”), that is, (symbolically) fictitious narrative (of common life conveying a moral), apoth gm or adage: - comparison, figure, parable, proverb.
As Ray has said many times,the bible is one giant parable and I agree.But that does not mean that the bible is not literally true from Genesis through Revelation.
If Adam and Eve were only a parable and did not actually live in flesh and blood bodies in the garden,then what are we to do with the Word of God in these verse?
Gen 3:20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.
Gen 5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.
Being a mother and giving birth and dying in physical bodies seems like a common occurrence to all people,not a fictitious narrative.
The words of God clearly show to me that Adam and Eve were truly literal human beings created by God.The literal stories of Scripture were written for our admonition in order to teach the few chosen Gods Spiritual truths, through parables or not. We should believe Gods Word,not mans.
1Jn 5:10 He who is believing in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; he who is not believing God has made Him a liar, for he has not believed in the testimony which God has testified concerning His Son."
1Co 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
1Co 10:6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
Rom 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
Rom 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar;
1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
Peace...Mark
JohnMichael:
--- Quote from: gk on July 29, 2011, 02:04:51 PM ---
But.
Genesis 3
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
6And the woman seeth that the tree [is] good for food, and that it [is] pleasant to the eyes, and the tree is desirable to make [one] wise, and she taketh of its fruit and eateth, and giveth also to her husband with her, and he doth eat;
7 and the eyes of them both are opened, and they know that they [are] naked, and they sew fig-leaves, and make to themselves girdles.
Why Genesis 7 and a ‘physical’ application as a follow-up to a ‘spiritual’ nakedness? What’s the latter to do with the former?
Not seeing it.
gk
--- End quote ---
Hi GK,
Working off of the premise that first comes the physical, then the spiritual follows. They discovered they were naked after eating of the fruit. They tried to physically cover themselves; then, God covered them physically. Both are physical representations of the spiritual covering that (1) man tries to accomplish, and (2) that God gives under the New Testament. Man seeks to cover himself spiritually with religion/Babylon (the spiritual reflection of the fig leaves), and then God covers them with His Spirit indwelling/Jesus' sacrifice/white raiment of righteousness (the spiritual reflection of the animal skins). Do you notice that the animal skins required a sacrifice?
Just food for thought. I hope this helps.
In Him,
John
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