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Author Topic: Mat. 21:12 and he was speechless  (Read 2133 times)

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jnoah

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Mat. 21:12 and he was speechless
« on: August 01, 2011, 04:11:36 PM »

Greetings to All, hoping for some spiritual insight.       Matt 22:12-13
12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Looking at the Strong's definition it Carry's the idea of being muzzled Strong's #5392, reading some older posts an trying to get some insight mostly found the garment addressed but not the fact he was speechless. Although I did find a post from Arcturus from Oct. 2007 that I found very insightfull           REV. 12:11 speaking of the word of there testimony, Please Help Thanks in advance  :D Keeping an eye on the light that is shining in the darkness!      OK truly sorry for so much confusion Rays says to pay attention to all the words so that being said, was just looking for some insight about the spiritual meaning (and he was speechless) looking at the Strong's # 5392 and the 7 times that it is used does not seem to be a voluntary act of holding your tongue, but being muzzled, shut up or stopped! Ounce again sorry for the confusion thanks for the reply, Will make sure in the future to be more specific ;)
« Last Edit: August 02, 2011, 02:07:29 PM by jnoah »
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Akira329

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Re: Mat. 21:12 and he was speechless
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2011, 07:41:55 PM »

Jnoah,
Do you believe Matthew 22:12 has anything to do with speaking in tongues?

It sounds like whoever you're talking to is trying to direct you into believing that speaking in tongues is the only evidence for the spirit of God.
I guarantee you that those same people don't abide by the uses of spiritual gifts.
I would direct them towards 1 Corinthians 14 (specifically verses 1-5)
That should leave them speechless!

I see no relation between Matthew 22:12 and speaking in tongues.
Whatever evidence you say you're finding in this forum for that belief I sure would like to see it.

Hope this helps
Antaiwan
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jnoah

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Re: Mat. 21:12 and he was speechless
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2011, 08:57:27 PM »

Antaiwan sorry for the confusion, Well first thank you for your reply. Myself no I do not believe that Matthew 22:12 is in reference to speaking in tongues, I was just stating that it was used to support the doctrine. As far as finding a post that I mentioned it was not in support of speaking in tongues, but just thought that it was a better spiritual match!     Rev 12:11

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
KJV
Hence no garment and speechless. Ounce again sorry for any confusion was just wondering about the speechless part  ??? looking for some insight  ;D To God be the Glory
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JohnMichael

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Re: Mat. 21:12 and he was speechless
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2011, 11:51:59 PM »

Jnoah,

Having been raised in the First United Pentecostal system, I can understand the "talking in tongues" doctrine being a sticking point. In the Pentecostal church, it is preached that speaking in tongues is the only sign that one has the Holy Spirit indwelling. They actually alter Acts 2:38 by adding "with the evidence of speaking in tongues" at the end. The fact that the Scripture had a phrase added to it was the big red flag for me after reading Ray's article on the subject.

Notice how Acts 2:38 actually reads:

Act 2:38  Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The spurious phrase that was added by the Pentecostal church is not there. The sentence ends after Holy Ghost.

Here are some applicable verses from 1 Cor 14 dealing with speaking in tongues:

1Co 14:22  Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
1Co 14:23  If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

I have seen this occur time and time again when someone new came to the service. Everyone would start babbling in "tongues," and the person would leave thinking the congregation was possessed.

1Co 14:27  If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
1Co 14:28  But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

I can only recall a few times that an "interpretation" actually happened.

1Co 14:40  Let all things be done decently and in order.

I hope these scriptures help. Ray brings out another verse that applies to the gift of speaking in tongues:

1Co 12:8  For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:9  To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:10  To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
1Co 12:11  But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

1Co 12:29  Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
1Co 12:30  Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

Paul is stating that not everyone will have the same gifts. That blows the Pentecostal teaching right out of the water.

1Co 13:8  Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.


I am not saying or spouting these scriptures to condemn you, Jnoah. I understand completely how hard it can be to let go of that teaching of the Pentecostal system. We all have to unlearn so much garbage. I am reciting these scriptures out of love and the desire to help, not condemnation.

In Him,
John

EDIT: In regards to Mat 22:12-13, these verses may be the actual matches for explaining it:

Rom 3:19  Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

1Sa 2:9  He will keep the feet of his saints, and the wicked shall be silent in darkness; for by strength shall no man prevail.

Jer 2:26  As the thief is ashamed when he is found, so is the house of Israel ashamed; they, their kings, their princes, and their priests, and their prophets,

Jer 2:32  Can a maid forget her ornaments, or a bride her attire? yet my people have forgotten me days without number.

Tit 3:11  Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

« Last Edit: August 02, 2011, 03:32:33 AM by JohnMichael »
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River

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Re: Mat. 21:12 and he was speechless
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2011, 11:33:30 AM »

 
 I guess laryngitis was seen as a sign of the devil in that church.  ;D
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onelovedread

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Re: Mat. 21:12 and he was speechless
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2011, 12:48:42 PM »

jnoah
I've read this thread many times. What spiritual insight are you seeking? I don't understand. Are you trying to understand what it meant for the man to be speechless? Or are you searching for a passage that addresses "speaking in tongues?"
When I read the passage which I believe is a parable, I thought that he was speechless in that he had no answer - no valid reason or excuse for not having a wedding garment. 
Isn't that where the spiritual application lies?
Why don't most of those who are called not put on a 'spiritual' 'wedding garment'?
Why do they remain at the same level in the same "ordinary (carnal) clothes"?
I thought that was the interpreation of the man being speechless in this parable.
But pardon me; maybe I am not understanding what "spiritual insight" you're searching for.
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Marky Mark

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Re: Mat. 21:12 and he was speechless
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2011, 03:35:38 PM »

Just a personal observation but this is how I have come to see what being speechless represents.

Job 37:19  Teach us what we shall say unto him; For we cannot set our speech in order by reason of darkness.

Joh 8:43  Wherefore, is it, that, my speech, ye do not understand? because ye cannot hear my word.


When one is left speechless,one is without words. If one is left without the Words of Jesus Christ within,the Truth is not in him and being in darkness [evil] is the end result of not walking in the light [love] of the Word.

Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

1Jn 2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
1Jn 2:10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
1Jn 2:11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

Eph 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:



Hope this helps some.


Peace...Mark


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