> General Discussions
I like what I've read (mostly)
mongoose:
PS - Please also be patient with all of us here. We are all works in progress and God isn't finished with us yet. Would love to have you stay and learn with us.
orion77:
--- Quote from: mongoose on July 13, 2006, 11:46:52 AM ---PS - Please also be patient with all of us here. We are all works in progress and God isn't finished with us yet. Would love to have you stay and learn with us.
--- End quote ---
A big Amen to that! ;D
Gary
Harryfeat:
--- Quote from: Scrybe on July 13, 2006, 01:34:18 AM ---
--- Quote from: orion77 on July 13, 2006, 12:44:46 AM ---is there any way posssible for one to really know God, and in the same sentence say He will torture people forever.
--- End quote ---
Well, I guess that's what I'm getting at. I think a person can know God quite well, but because they have been told by others that they respect, others that show good fruit, that there is an aspect of God we can't understand. And there is truth in that. We can NOT understand God. So it's not a big leap to say that He has a way to reconcile hell with His morality that we have no way of fathoming. And I guess that's what I find so exhilarating about Ray's attitude of 'No contradiction'. I've not spent enough time contemplating his ideas and studying the Bible to see for myself if it all proves out, but it's very different than how the church trains Our only saving grace is thait's leaders. We are all taught that there are apparent contradictions due to our lack of understanding. So it is an act of humility to just accept these things. That is how it has always been for me. We have this enormous weight of 20 centuries momentum pushing us into these doctrines.
So to love God, and walk with Him while misunderstanding Him is the condition of all Christians. I agree that anyone who revels in the idea of hell is probably not close to God at all. But there are those who are submitting to what they don't understand out of love for God. (Because they've been told by very reputable folks and read in very reputable publications, in fact, read the very words about hell in the BIBLE, that it is the way it is.)
--- End quote ---
Hello Scrybe and welcome to the forum.
Please bare with me as I expose my own fruits. :o Seriously, I hope this doesn't come out too disjointed but there are a number of points I'd like to touch on so please do bear with me.
I too believe that we are all at different stages along the same path to God.
Understanding God---I do not believe that we can ever totally understand God. As an example. Joe wrote an excellent bio here. I learned a lot about Joe but I do not totally understand him. I learn more and more about Joe as I read his posts here at the forum. Is it likely that with our carnal minds that the bible and all the written scripture in the entire universe will let us completely understand God. I think not. If I can't completely understand Joe how in the universe am I to understand God.
Agreement with Ray's teachings at bible-truths: A) I agree with everything Ray teaches. B) I don't agree with everything Ray teaches. Am I still an unbeliever under scenario A or B? How many people have computers or/and even know of BT: If you didn't know of BT would you still be a member of a church. Would you have changed many of your doctrinal beliefs.
Existence of Hell's torture---As a child growing up Catholic, I was taught and believed with bulging eyes of frght that if I committed a sin [there wasn't much that wasn't a sin by the way], I would go to purgatory or hell if a mortal sin. I believed that the resurrected body was physical and fire would hurt like it does now.
My view of hell changed in high school where I couldn't justify a religion based on fear of God when Christ taught the opposite. My view of hell became " the abscence or distance from God. I believed that being here in physical form was "hell' since we are somehow insulated or isolated from Him and that, as in revelations, if we were not in the book then we would be thrown into the lake of fire and cease to exist just like death. I ceased all study of the bible and adopted the doctrine of Christ to love God and my neighbor and have tried to follow it since.
How can you be tortured if you have no physical body? Would the lake of fire chastisement make you suffer remorse? Could this lake of fire exist forever? Ray says not. What if it takes an eternity for us to know God and experience more and more of His love? Isn't an eternity of growing in His love something to look forward to? If we know God completely and experience the full range of His love are we then god too? Is that what it means for God to be All in All?
I also hope that one day soon the organized religions will wake up to Christ's commandments of love and give up on the religion of fear. There is too much of the old testament overriding/overshadowing Christ's message.
We must be ever mindful that our journey is in God's hands. God's will be done.
feat
Ward:
Scrybe,
--- Quote ---Needless to say, Mr. Smith's exposition on hell and its etymology was a joyous thing for me to discover. But now I have this dilemma which we all face when making spiritual decisions: who do I believe?
--- End quote ---
Earlier in your post you wrote, "It was then I realized that our Christian walk is not part us / part God… No it's ALL God." I think that is your answer. Whom/whatever you believe in currently is of God. Your beliefs may change next month, but that too, will be of God.
Is Ray correct? Are all the others that you mentioned correct? Hmmm.... I'd say that the answer is Yes and Yes. They are all correct for the place/point that they are each on. Kind of like a path that we are each following. Right now, on the path that God is walking me down, Ray is closer to the answer that is ultimately correct. Ray has already been down the portion of the path that the "others" are currently on.
--- Quote ---And that is what brings me to the stickiest point in Mr. Smith's writings: the idea of leaving the church. I've always known that modern evangel's eschatology was stupid, and Mr. Smith may be correct in asserting that the church is the Great Whore of Babylon. But are we really called to leave our church? To disassociate with those who have shared in our lives and ministered to us as we have ministered to them? Does "Come out of her" mean that? Or does "Come out of her" mean to drop her anti-Biblical ideas? I know Mr. Smith is big on delineating the literal from the spiritual, so literally leaving a literal church seems to go against his other ideas.
--- End quote ---
Same answer.... And don't be surprised if you go thru this again and again. I'm certain that God takes us each thru most (if not all) of the portions of our path multiple times. Each time the experience may feel a little different because each time we are being taught more. Each time God changes another aspect of our heart.
Scrybe, I'm very much a lurker at Bible-Truths. I've been here for a couple of years and only recently posted anything. When someone posts a question that's just one of those, "Oh Yeah! I've wondered the samething," I get excited. I keep checking back and reading the answers I see. Measuring each response. Noticing how answers that I thought were wrong a year ago may now seem right...
But every once in a while it happens... I get reminded that its not something I control. What I think is right is only that way now because of the heart that I have now. God has been working on it since that answer was wrong. (I won't really be too surprised if the now right answer is wrong again in the future considering the fact that God is still working on my heart.)
I think that most of us are really asking for the "Ultimate Right Answer" to our questions. But I don't think that any of us is really at the point in our path where the "Ultimate Right Answer" is right for us. The answer that we go with today, is right for today. Each new right answer results in some new experience that God wills for us to take. Each experience teachs us something new(good or bad).
I've can't ever remember making a wrong choice. It was right at that time in my life (God's path for me). Almost all of them have proven to be wrong later on. BUT they were right for God's purpose.
Ward
danagonzalez:
Hey I like that Ward!!!Just go with His promptings, He knows what he's doing...We don't need to try to analyze every idea we have. Is it from God or not? doesn't need an answer. Just trust that He is in control and go ahead and do the "desires of your heart" He's doing something with each situatuion you are in.....Thanks WARD!!!!!!LOVE DANA :)
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