> General Discussions
babylon the great a church?
jerry:
funny how some post just dissapear..LOL maybe I hit the wrong button.LOL........Jerry
Harryfeat:
Hello all,
I guess it is fair to say that Revelations was written prior to the establishment of the Roman Catholic Church and all of its spin offs.. Are we to assume that John was the forerunner Nostradamus and Revealions/Babylon is about the Catholic Church?
If you were alive while the apostles were preaching, what would Babylon mean to you? Is BAbylon the Jewish religion, paganism, or just the close affinity to worldliness?
I am sorry but I don't have an answer. I am still just as confused as ever even after I read what Ray had to say about it. Revelaions is more a source of confusion than a revelation to me.
feat.
jerry:
Hey feet,thats a good question I wonder what someone would think of when they herd the name Babylon in the apostles day would they think fallen christian church,my quess is they would think of rome if they were a Jew because it was babylon the held thier for fathers captive the way rome did in their day,I know I what I post sound kind of strong, I was thinking about revalations last night and wondered why God wrote it the way he did,the one thing that comes to mind is how a father comes home from work with a gift hide behind his back,and tells the child to choose which hand,the father smiles if he chooses wrong and smiles if he chooses wright,either way he gets the intended prize.People should never take an opion personal and they should never think there is better than others,we all look through the glass dimly....................Jerry
Lightseeker:
Chrissie
--- Quote ---Here is something that might be worth considering as it relates to whether or not this "great city" has anything to do with the "churches".
Mat 19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
Did the Lord not “put away” His first “wife” (Jerusalem) for reasons of fornication? And God says “Come out of her, MY PEOPLE
--- End quote ---
I don't know what you're talking about as far as "(Jerusalem) being His first wife"? I did know that the Lord had divorced faithless Israel? But I've not heard anything about Jerusalem. :-\
~Faithless Israel~
JER 3:6,8 The LORD said to me in the days of King Josiah: "Have you seen what she did, that faithless one, Israel, how she went up on every high hill and under every green tree, and there played the harlot?
8 She saw that for all the adulteries of that faithless one, Israel, I had sent her away with a decree of divorce; yet her false sister Judah did not fear, but she too went and played the harlot.
I am curious Chrissie as to why you said the city Jerusalem is his bride. Is there a scripture to that effect?
I also wonder if the following verses give us more enlightenment concerning what's been talked about? Are all those who are so facinated with 'physical Israel' and the rebuilding of a 'physical temple' and a return to 'physical sacrifices' and the hope for discovery of the 'physical Ark'...are they the faithless children? Are they the ones talked about in the following verses?
JER 3:14-16 Return, O faithless children, says the LORD; for I am your master; I will take you, one from a city and two from a family, and I will bring you to Zion.
15 "'And I will give you shepherds after my own heart, who will feed you with knowledge and understanding.
16 And when you have multiplied and increased in the land, in those days, says the LORD, they shall no more say, "The ark of the covenant of the LORD." It shall not come to mind, or be remembered, or missed; it shall not be made again.
I worry not, about 'The Temple' being physically rebuilt, or the 'ark of the covenant' being physically made again(or rediscovered). I am trying to make sure that I'm following His shepherds as verse 15 says. Those who are hoping for a return to blood sacrifices in a new temple in old Jerusalem!!!...have missed the passing of the OT and the promises of the new and better covenant of the NT IMO.
--- Quote ---In one hour she is made desolate for God hath avenged the holy apostles and prophets on her[/b]. And ‘the light of a candle shall shine no more at all” in her and “the voice of the BRIDEGROOM AND OF THE BRIDE shall be heard no more at all” in her.
And after she is made desolate and “the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride” are not longer heard in her:
--- End quote ---
Is "the voice of the bridegroom and the bride heard anymore" in 'physical Israel' as so many think. Is it possible that those who think that being a "jew after the flesh" or being "Israel after the flesh" is still some sort of enviable and honorable position yet to receive the 'promises' made to the true church? Isn't the 'true church' the same one which was also symbolized in the OT as the 'true Jew' (as indivicuals) and the 'true Israel' (as corporate body) of the OT? Weren't they the ones which were 'of the spirit' and not 'of the flesh'? Are they the 'faithless ones' after the spirit today?
I've not heard anything along those lines ??? Has Ray taught anything I have missed?
chrissiela:
Lightseeker,
I did not mean the "city" of Jerusalem. I guess I said "Jerusalem" rather than "Israel" because I was reading Lamentations.
I don't think the rest of your questions were directed to me, were they? I don't see it as being "physical" either.
Blessings,
Chrissie
PS (edited in):
Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Seems the "holy city" is called "New Jerusalem". If there is a "new", there must be ab "old". I thought that the Jewish nation as a whole was also referred to as "Jerusalem"? Hence the mention in Lamentions of "Oh Jerusalem".
Didn't mean to be confusing and if I am wrong about that then please correct me. That is just the way I was looking at it... given the fact, as I said, that the holy city is called "New Jerusalem".
Chrissie
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version