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If You Are Afraid of What Evolution Implies, Don't Be
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: DougE6 on November 12, 2011, 05:45:05 PM ---BUT all these immense ages of time give me pause. too. If God was willing to be that patient, and exert that much time to make things come to fruition, maybe we REALLY ought to strive to make our calling and election sure. Sometimes I think people who know eternal fire is a myth tend to minimize the glory and height of this prize, to be in the First resurrection. If God is as patient as He has demonstrated, then He might be a LOT more patient than we realize in applying judgement to sin and sinners, in the Next life. The Scriptures testify that it is a glorious thing, this Salvation, that we seek and take hold of. I speaking for myself, have a whole lot of fear and trembling when it comes to God, because he has demonstrated that He has a timetable that is WAY beyond us... and even though He will achieve His objective of complete reconciliation with everyone, there is no assurance that that process may be a VERY long time, compared to the time scales we are used too. Just some sobering thoughts when you are tempted to take it too lightly, what you have been given.
--- End quote ---
Doug, why do you continue to make these baseless assumptions? You haven't the slightest clue as to what God's timetable will be in the ages to come, so why imply otherwise?
How many times will you tell the members that you 'strive' to be in the First Resurrection? Why are some 'taking it lightly' while, obviously, only you give it serious consideration? Do you know how condescending you sound?
I'm going to make this as simple to understand as possible: The reason why NO ONE ELSE continues to go on and on about how they are 'striving' to be God's Elect is NOT because they think the myth of free will gives them a 'free ride'. I know you falsely assume this because you say so every chance you get. The reason is because WE ARE SINNERS!
Everyone has something that they have yet to overcome. God has yet to give us the victory over something in our lives, though that does not mean He won't, eventually. But NONE OF US know when that victory will come. We have all 'tried', 'strived', & 'willed' as best we could, but alas, we cannot overcome these sins in our lives. God will not give us what we need to overcome these sins until we learn to despise them as He does....until the desire to do that which is righteousness is above and beyond the desire to sin. This learning can take considerable time and for some, will not be accomplished until the next age. Either way, this age or the next, it is all on His timing...no matter how much we 'strive'.
No one is minimizing any of God's glory to be bestowed upon us. But we do minimize our own efforts because they don't bring us any closer to righteousness. Only when we humble ourselves does God then lift us up. And even the 'humbling of ourselves' only takes place when God gives us the proper perspective of who we are, who He is, and how much we fall short of His glory. God makes the first step, not us....and even after, our own steps are directed by Him. Truly all is of God.
Marques
Samson:
--- Quote from: mharrell08 on November 12, 2011, 06:50:54 PM ---
--- Quote from: DougE6 on November 12, 2011, 05:45:05 PM ---BUT all these immense ages of time give me pause. too. If God was willing to be that patient, and exert that much time to make things come to fruition, maybe we REALLY ought to strive to make our calling and election sure. Sometimes I think people who know eternal fire is a myth tend to minimize the glory and height of this prize, to be in the First resurrection. If God is as patient as He has demonstrated, then He might be a LOT more patient than we realize in applying judgement to sin and sinners, in the Next life. The Scriptures testify that it is a glorious thing, this Salvation, that we seek and take hold of. I speaking for myself, have a whole lot of fear and trembling when it comes to God, because he has demonstrated that He has a timetable that is WAY beyond us... and even though He will achieve His objective of complete reconciliation with everyone, there is no assurance that that process may be a VERY long time, compared to the time scales we are used too. Just some sobering thoughts when you are tempted to take it too lightly, what you have been given.
--- End quote ---
Doug, why do you continue to make these baseless assumptions? You haven't the slightest clue as to what God's timetable will be in the ages to come, so why imply otherwise?
How many times will you tell the members that you 'strive' to be in the First Resurrection? Why are some 'taking it lightly' while, obviously, only you give it serious consideration? Do you know how condescending you sound?
I'm going to make this as simple to understand as possible: The reason why NO ONE ELSE continues to go on and on about how they are 'striving' to be God's Elect is NOT because they think the myth of free will gives them a 'free ride'. I know you falsely assume this because you say so every chance you get. The reason is because WE ARE SINNERS!
Everyone has something that they have yet to overcome. God has yet to give us the victory over something in our lives, though that does not mean He won't, eventually. But NONE OF US know when that victory will come. We have all 'tried', 'strived', & 'willed' as best we could, but alas, we cannot overcome these sins in our lives. God will not give us what we need to overcome these sins until we learn to despise them as He does....until the desire to do that which is righteousness is above and beyond the desire to sin. This learning can take considerable time and for some, will not be accomplished until the next age. Either way, this age or the next, it is all on His timing...no matter how much we 'strive'.
No one is minimizing any of God's glory to be bestowed upon us. But we do minimize our own efforts because they don't bring us any closer to righteousness. Only when we humble ourselves does God then lift us up. And even the 'humbling of ourselves' only takes place when God gives us the proper perspective of who we are, who He is, and how much we fall short of His glory. God makes the first step, not us....and even after, our own steps are directed by Him. Truly all is of God.
Marques
--- End quote ---
Thanks for the above Marques, Well said and accurate Too. I would like to add the following verses from The Concordant Literal Translation to further emphasize some of the points you've expressed in the above Post. Read Below !
James. 4:12-15 12 One is Lawgiver and Judge, Who is able to save and to destroy. Now who are you who are judging an associate?
13 Come now, you who are saying, "Today or tomorrow we will be going into this or that city and should be spending a year there, and we will be trafficking and getting gain" --
14 who are not versed in that which is the morrow's, for what is your life? For a vapor are you, which is appearing briefly and thereupon disappearing--
15 instead of your saying, "IF THE LORD SHOULD EVER BE WILLING, and we shall be living, we also shall be doing this or that."
Ephesians. 2:8-10 8 For in grace, through faith, are you saved, and this is not out of you; it is God's approach present,
9 not of works, lest anyone should be boasting.
10 FOR HIS ACHIEVEMENT ARE WE, being created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God makes ready beforehand, that we should be walking in them.
Philippians. 2:12,13 12 So that, my beloved, according as you always obey, not as in my presence only, but now much rather in my absence, with fear and trembling, be carrying your own salvation into effect,
13 for it is GOD WHO IS OPERATING IN YOU TO WILL as well as to work for the sake of His delight.
2 Timothy. 1:8,9 8 You may not be ashamed, then, of the testimony of our Lord, nor yet of me, His prisoner, but suffer evil with the evangel in accord with the power of God,
9 Who saves us and calls us with a holy calling, NOT IN ACCORD WITH OUR OWN ACTS, but in accord with HIS OWN PURPOSE and the grace which is given to us in Christ Jesus before times eonian,
( Note: Caps above for emphasis are mine).
Thanks again for the above clarifying response, Samson.
Daddysgirl:
Marques
Thanks for the edification and indisputable truth. Thanks to you too Samson for the supporting scriptures.
Matty
DougE6:
Quote from Marques referring to my post "The reason why NO ONE ELSE continues to go on and on about how they are 'striving' to be God's Elect is NOT because they think the myth of free will gives them a 'free ride'. I know you falsely assume this because you say so every chance you get" Unquote...
Oops!< When I wrote that post free will and how others respond to free will was NOT in my mind whatsoever....
What was in my mind was great sobriety when considering the ages of creation; which only magnifies the PRIVELIGE the glory and honor of being in the First resurrection, and how the long ages that God has used already in doing His works gives me sobering pause...I as well as most people who read these posts understand that eonian does not mean eternal, but it relates to an ages or ages...and so considering the ages that God has used to bring us to where we are right now, it did not seem out of line to point out that EONIAN JUDGEMENT was something to be feared, that could mean an awful long time; that God is Holy and will have us a spotless bride, NO MATTER HOW LONG HE DECIDES TO MAKE IT TAKE. I was not referring to free will at all. I was exhorting others to yes STRIVE with all your heart to please him, to make your calling and election sure. I do believe there is/are many a scripture that tells us exactly that.
I want to please Jesus, to be an OVERCOMER, just as He was. Gods great ages of creation sober me and Jesus LOVING OBEDIENCE to His Father make me want to be like Jesus too. I DO NOT want to be lukewarm and spewed from his mouth like vomit (Revelation 3:16).
Do I feel their NOT enough chatter on these boards about overcoming sin, and obeying Christ? LET each person judge for themselves on that. I think it is entirely scriptural for each of us to search ourselves and see if we are giving proper due to obedience and LOVE for Christ. Are we forsaking the world and dying to the flesh, or not? As you Marques, wisely brought forth, do we hate the sin in each of us? Do we? Do we!? If not, why not? This question is NOT aimed at you, or anyone, it is aimed at all of us, individually and collectively.
It was not my intent to go into the whole Free WILL thing at all. I find it is not productive to do while I judge myself. I am ONLY looking at my heart, as I judge myself. Speaking for myself, I am not looking for whys, I am looking for HELP from HIM, wherever I fall short. Bottom Line, do I love righteousness and actually hate wickedness? Do I love Him more than the world? Am I dying to my flesh?
I truly feel it is INDISPUTABLE if one is going to be part of the First Resurrection then your heart and actions will be in line with such a noble calling, and you WILL have a heart that desires OVERCOMING more than anything else in the world.
I suppose my following illustration might be misunderstood but I will try anyway, this being Veterans day, well, almost. I think being part of the First resurrection is much like receiving the highest medal the US government gives its soldiers, the Congressional Medal of Honor. Did the recipients of this medal do something to earn it? well, of course! very brave, very difficult, things that put their lives at great risk, essentially they died to themselves to help their comrades. Most recipients bear the marks in their body, and yet have the humility and bravery that escapes most of us all.
Did not Ray, also say, that getting saved is the HARDEST thing each of us will ever do? I believe He will stand behind that statement.
Sorry if you found my post offensive. It was NOT aimed at anyone in particular and was not aimed at free will, which you have assumed. I think it is wonderful that many people have Great Knowledge, and this knowledge includes the understanding that God will save everyone. But that knowledge is NOT going to make you automatically in the First resurrection. Your works, your love for Jesus and your fellow man, your sacrifice, YES ALL THIS IS IN HIS STRENGTH< is what will be required to be there.
I don't know what else to say. I do not care how much head knowledge I have. I want HEART KNOWLEDGE, the heart knowledge that causes me to abandon ALL my besetting sins, that causes me to live in obedience and to do works that Jesus will be proud to say..Well Done my Good and Faithful Servant.
Peace
arion:
--- Quote from: mharrell08 on November 12, 2011, 06:50:54 PM ---Everyone has something that they have yet to overcome. God has yet to give us the victory over something in our lives, though that does not mean He won't, eventually. But NONE OF US know when that victory will come. We have all 'tried', 'strived', & 'willed' as best we could, but alas, we cannot overcome these sins in our lives. God will not give us what we need to overcome these sins until we learn to despise them as He does....until the desire to do that which is righteousness is above and beyond the desire to sin. This learning can take considerable time and for some, will not be accomplished until the next age. Either way, this age or the next, it is all on His timing...no matter how much we 'strive'.
--- End quote ---
Truth!! And that which was once again made perfectly clear to me again this week as to how far I yet have to travel and how much I have yet to overcome. I really think that once we have truly been confronted with the beast within and the evil that dwells within us all we'll know beyond a shadow of a doubt that if God doesn't do his work in us....it's not going to get done. That is pretty deflating to the human ego but that is a lesson we must learn and learn very well beyond any possibility of question. No flesh is going to glory in his presence indeed.
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