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If You Are Afraid of What Evolution Implies, Don't Be

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Ireland:
Marques and Samson, Thank you! Man, some people just go on and on trying to tell people what and how to do it. Maybe we all have done that at some point, but sheesh, it just wears me out. This would usually be a pm from me so as not to cause a stir, but I just had to respond with an Amen. I wish some of these people would start there own website and teach everyone how to live.

mharrell08:

--- Quote from: DougE6 on November 13, 2011, 05:42:55 PM ---I as well as most people who read these posts understand that eonian does not mean eternal, but it relates to an ages or ages...and so considering the ages that God has used to bring us to where we are right now, it did not seem out of line to point out that EONIAN JUDGEMENT was something to be feared, that could mean an awful long time; that God is Holy and will have us a spotless bride, NO MATTER HOW LONG HE DECIDES TO MAKE IT TAKE.
--- End quote ---

Do you not see anything wrong with using FEAR as motivation to serve the Lord? God has not given us a spirit of fear [2 Tim 1:7] though the enemy constantly tries to use it. Why do you think Satan and his ministers use fear to have us 'serve the Lord'? Because everyone hates what makes them afraid and that's exactly what Satan wants.

Have you not read Ray's last installment of the Lake of Fire series, that explains how all the fires used in symbolism (Gehenna Fire, Fire never Quenched, Eternal/Eonian Fire, etc.) are all the SAME fire and we ALL (saints and the wicked) have to go through it?

You have not a clue of the conditions that God will place people into, in the next age, and because you don't, you attempt to use fear to 'motivate' others. I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but not everyone who is not of the Elect will be 'weeping and gnashing' their teeth. Most people of the world are blind sheep and will not have the same fate as the false shepherds who rule over them.



--- Quote from: DougE6 on November 13, 2011, 05:42:55 PM ---  I was not referring to free will at all. I was exhorting others to yes STRIVE with all your heart to please him, to make your calling and election sure. I do believe there is/are many a scripture that tells us exactly that.

I want to please Jesus, to be an OVERCOMER, just as He was.  Gods great ages of creation sober me and Jesus LOVING OBEDIENCE to His Father make me want to be like Jesus too.  I DO NOT want to be lukewarm and spewed from his mouth like vomit (Revelation 3:16).
--- End quote ---

And Who places this effort to strive in us? Who makes us want to be like Jesus? Again, God ALWAYS makes the first step, not you. Your very words indicate you do not understand this, and why you refuse to believe that God calls people unto good works on His time, not theirs.



--- Quote from: DougE6 on November 13, 2011, 05:42:55 PM ---Do I feel their NOT enough chatter on these boards about overcoming sin, and obeying Christ? LET each person judge for themselves on that. I think it is entirely scriptural for each of us to search ourselves and see if we are giving proper due to obedience and LOVE for Christ. Are we forsaking the world and dying to the flesh, or not? As you Marques, wisely brought forth, do we hate the sin in each of us? Do we? Do we!? If not, why not? This question is NOT aimed at you, or anyone, it is aimed at all of us, individually and collectively.
--- End quote ---

Now we come to the heart of the matter. Since you don't see the good works in each members life, you are pessimistic that they are happening in the first place.

Would you like a board on the forum dedicated to each member's personal achievement and good works? Or a donation amount next to each member's profile for everyone to know who gave what and for how much? Do you not see where and how pride & vanity would set in amongst us? Perhaps this is why the Lord said the following:

Matt 6:2-4  Therefore, when you do a charitable deed, do not sound a trumpet before you as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory from men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. But when you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, that your charitable deed may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will Himself reward you openly.



--- Quote from: DougE6 on November 13, 2011, 05:42:55 PM ---It was not my intent to go into the whole Free WILL thing at all. I find it is not productive to do while I judge myself.  I am ONLY looking at my heart, as I judge myself. Speaking for myself, I am not looking for whys, I am looking for HELP from HIM, wherever I fall short.  Bottom Line, do I love righteousness and actually hate wickedness? Do I love Him more than the world? Am I dying to my flesh?
--- End quote ---

But yet you always do, which is ironic, because time and again you prove you DO NOT understand it. You speak as if people have free will but say you do not intend to talk about the subject.

You can look through your old posts for yourself: Never once, in all the many times you expressed a great desire to serve the Lord, have you EVER implied the desire, in and of itself, was from the Lord. Time and again you speak as if YOU initiated a relationship with God in order to for Him to bless you in good works.


--- Quote from: DougE6 on November 13, 2011, 05:42:55 PM ---I truly feel it is INDISPUTABLE if one is going to be part of the First Resurrection then your heart and actions will be in line with such a noble calling, and you WILL have a heart that desires OVERCOMING more than anything else in the world.
--- End quote ---

But on who's timetable? Yours? God tells us He will give us a new heart and mind [Jer 31:33, Heb 8:10]...but it takes one's lifetime for these things to be accomplished. It's foolish to assume that it will happen any sooner.



--- Quote from: DougE6 on November 13, 2011, 05:42:55 PM ---I suppose my following illustration might be misunderstood but I will try anyway, this being Veterans day, well, almost. I think being part of the First resurrection is much like receiving the highest medal the US government gives its soldiers, the Congressional Medal of Honor.   Did the recipients of this medal do something to earn it? well, of course! very brave, very difficult, things that put their lives at great risk, essentially they died to themselves to help their comrades. Most recipients bear the marks in their body, and yet have the humility and bravery that escapes most of us all.

Did not Ray, also say, that getting saved is the HARDEST thing each of us will ever do? I believe He will stand behind that statement.
--- End quote ---

But that's not ALL he said or taught. And even Christ Himself said it was IMPOSSIBLE for one to be saved (in and of themselves). Only with God is it even possible. Always, God takes that first step.



--- Quote from: DougE6 on November 13, 2011, 05:42:55 PM ---Sorry if you found my post offensive. It was NOT aimed at anyone in particular and was not aimed at free will, which you have assumed. I think it is wonderful that many people have Great Knowledge, and this knowledge includes the understanding that God will save everyone. But that knowledge is NOT going to make you automatically in the First resurrection. Your works, your love for Jesus and your fellow man, your sacrifice, YES ALL THIS IS IN HIS STRENGTH< is what will be required to be there.

I don't know what else to say. I do not care how much head knowledge I have.  I want HEART KNOWLEDGE, the heart knowledge that causes me to abandon ALL my besetting sins, that causes me to live in obedience and to do works that Jesus will be proud to say..Well Done my Good and Faithful Servant.

Peace
--- End quote ---

Who on this forum ever said that having great knowledge assured them a place in the First Resurrection? What do you base these false assumptions on?

What's the point of going on and on about how you want to be in the First Resurrection when it's not your choice? You do believe it is NOT your choice, don't you?

Let us simply wait on the Lord when it comes to being in the First Resurrection. You can't change one aspect of your chances on your own, can't add one cubit to your stature [Matt 6:27]. But even to wait, the patience needed, will only come from God.


Marques

longhorn:
I had most of my head put back together, then it exploded again.

Longhorn

DougE6:
Quote...I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but not everyone who is not of the Elect will be 'weeping and gnashing' their teeth... "burst my bubble"? Unquote.. Was that really necessary to say? Do I delight in punishments and retribution? Was that remark intended or inadvertent? I will believe inadvertent.

Quote//Never once, in all the many times you expressed a great desire to serve the Lord, have you EVER implied the desire, in and of itself, was from the Lord. Time and again you speak as if YOU initiated a relationship with God in order to for Him to bless you in good works...Unquote

So because I speak words of zeal and joy and encouragement to seek righteousness this is NOW LABELED SELF INITIATED? WHAT GIVES YOU to allege that? What is it about my words to encourage others to righteousness you find so offensive?  Seriously? Is it truly necessary to preface exhortations with some sort of disclaimer?  (the following is meant to be said for effect and not to represent anyone here)...Or am I to be accommodating and say, oh its all right just for now to look at porn or commit adultery or have a bad temper or lie and cheat and steal, go to strip clubs, have emotional affairs, be lazy, unconcerned about others, selfish, not sharing with others, unloving, gossipers, backbiting, homosexual, drunkards, crude, lascivious, whatever, its all right, God hasn't taught you to hate it enough, so don't worry about it too much.  You can't expect to stop, so why try too hard. When God is full and ready He will stop you. Until then, just (secretly) do it, then repent, knowing you are just a helpless victim and don't bother seeking Him with all your heart mind soul and strength to change.  Wait for some heavenly signal or something.

How else are we to learn to hate these things if we ignore the admonitions of scripture, of fellow believers and His Spirit.  We are to telling they are EVIL. Encouraging each other.  Conviction of sin and unrighteousness is one of the most unpopular things that God calls us to do, but we are to do it.  His spirit is here to convict the world of sin righteousness and judgment.

God is the ONE who motivates  and convicts and calls to account.  The JOY of OBEDIENCE IS GREAT ENOUGH TO COMPELL TO FURTHER OBEDIENCE AS HIS SPIRIT CHANGES US. Rivers of flowing water of joy and peace and a clean conscience is the reward for obedience. Knowing that we are utterly weak and powerless comes with the territory.  BUT I AM TALKING ATTITUDE HERE AND NOT NECESSARILY PERFORMANCE.   Performance follows a contrite heart and spirit.

Why were my words condescending, like you said. Why?  I would think that anyone who delighted in righteousness would of rejoiced in them. I can assure you that I would not find it condescending at all if anyone, anyone said they loved God and encouraged any members or readers to be seekers of greater and greater righteousness or found they have been freed from deep sins or problems.  In fact, I think one of the hallmarks of believers is that they ARE different than they were before. That is why I stress this so much.  Maybe you find the connection between being called to being one of the Elect and judging ourselves and striving to be righteous offensive, I don't. I find it miraculous that I delight in good, I delight in Jesus, that I HATE my personal sins and weaknesses, and I rejoice as God increases my hatred for sins and increases my joy that the sinful desires pale in comparison. Then I know I might, be on track, for the first resurrection. Of course I do not know for sure. No one does. So because I do not know for sure, I am to give it very little mind?  it is not to be the foremost desire of my heart, to be with Christ, to be with Him, to be called to His side, to rule and reign to establish righteousness?

quote...Let us simply wait on the Lord when it comes to being in the First Resurrection... unquote ... Is God going to give the prize to people who don't want it with all their heart? I would not say what you have written, I see it much differently.

Is that why you found my post so offensive? You don't have this desire, with all your heart? I am asking in all seriousness. I thought everyone would.

Doug

Craig:

--- Quote ---Is God going to give the prize to people who don't want it with all their heart?
--- End quote ---

I will chime in with my opinion.  Yes He will.  In my observations and grasp of history the the ones who want it with all "Their" heart may be the last who get it.  These are the ones who began some of the worst persecution to their fellow man in history.  Some of ones who participated in the crusades and  Inquisitions wanted  God's prize with all their hearts.  Some of ones who start and lead churches want that prize also but in their zeal to get it they dilute the Word of God and become leaders of the synagogues of Satan.  The thing is when we want something so bad it becomes about us and not about God.  We try to fill ourselves with God instead of emptying ourselves for God.  

I don't know who the elect is, only God does.  But it seems in history a great number of the ones who appear to empty themselves and do good for their fellow man and live as an example of Christ do not even claim to be christian.  Christ lives in them and they do not even realize it.

Doug I don't know your heart but I agree that when I read some of your posts I see a condescending attitude.  Perhaps that is not what you are in "real life" but it seems like you want to bind yourself and others in works to assure your election.  I can't will the sin out of my life or work the sin out of my life.  God needs to burn it out of me and however He does it, I do want that, and I know that it will be in His time and not mine.

Craig

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