> General Discussions
More "free-will" questions.
John from Kentucky:
--- Quote from: Dave in Tenn on November 26, 2011, 01:55:30 AM ---Thanks, John. Is this the Scripture you are referring to?
Jas 1:14-16 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. Do not err, my beloved brethren.
Or this one (or both and/or more)?
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
So the question is moot? It's not possible to 'want to sin' without already having sinned?
Does the clarification I gave Odading make any difference? Has anybody with a desire to commit a sin found themselves UNABLE to do what they desire?
As I said, I'm going to assume no matter the answer that God brought this situation about. I'm also going to assume you haven't had physical sexual relations with most of the women you've seen. :)
I may be ready to drop the first question, and keep the second one, if I can get real-life, practical agreement. Otherwise, it's just theology/philosophy to me.
--- End quote ---
Those are excellent scriptures you quoted and are on point. But the specific scripture I had in mind was Mark 7:20-23.
Jesus said, "What comes out of a man is what makes him unclean. For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All these things come from inside and make a man unclean." (NIV)
So, I think the first question is a moot point. By wanting to sin, we have already sinned from our heart, in spirit, before the physical act occurs. Which is why God's consuming fire must cleanse us from the inside out, from our hearts.
;D ;D ;D No, I have not had sexual relations with most of the women I've seen. Although my carnal, natural self would like to. ;D ;D ;D
In fact, under the Law of Moses, I would be considered a righteous, holy man. It is only under the higher, stricter requirements that Jesus expounded of the New Covenant that I am exposed as the sinner I am due to my weak, sinful heart that only Jesus can heal.
odading:
--- Quote from: Dave in Tenn on November 25, 2011, 10:22:29 PM ---Odading, I'm sorry, but I did not understand the English in this statement: I've ever to wanted to sin.
--- End quote ---
I'm very sorry for my mistake and misunderstood your question. :-[
--- Quote ---What I'm asking is if anybody WITH A DESIRE to commit a sin has found themselves UNABLE to do what they desire.
--- End quote ---
Did you mean (for example in a real life) something like when someone was just about to stab with a knife whom he hates - then suddenly he's unable to do it ?
Well it never happen to me.... based on my experience - I'm always ABLE to do it when I have a desire to commit a sin.
--- Quote ---And secondly, if there is anybody who did NOT want to commit a sin, but found themselves sinning anyway.
--- End quote ---
For example - if the situation like this :
in my mind I wanted to "play" with one girl - with that actually I've already sin, though hasn't committed yet (do the action) - so I resisted the temptation to do the action. (doesn't want to commit a sin) ...but finally I found myself "playing" with this girl anyway.
so my answer is (in the above example) :
I don't think I will do the action (playing with the girl or killing someone) consider there'll be too much risk I get :)
But in any case, it turn out that I did the action - then IMO,
I'm quite sure that I did it in a FULLY AWARE that I'm committing a sin.
with that "fact" above - it's difficult for me to reason : I swear ... I didn't want to make "my dreams come true" by doing the action what's in my mind ... but oh well... I don't know... it;s just happened ... :)
Hope this is a proper answer which "fit" your question :)
regards,
odading.
Dave in Tenn:
No worries, Odading. Even native speakers misunderstand each other.
I can clear-eyed and honestly say there have been many times in my life when I have wanted to sin. If John is correct, then I already did--no matter what my 'body' did. But there have also been numerous times when I found myself unable to bring it to completion. I've made plans, spent money, enjoyed the anticipation, revelled in the excitement of the temptation, had every hope and intention of 'sinning', but been stopped.
If ALL is of God, then it doesn't matter whether what stopped me in any of those situations seemed or felt mundane or miraculous.
Most of these, I'd be too embarassed to mention in detail. One time, I've already shared. When I first saw the google ad for B-T, I was not in a 'religious' or 'bible-oriented' forum. Though discussion there was broad, the purpose of that forum was for sinners to get together and learn how to sin more effectively and efficiently. Sheer boredom caused me to follow the link in the google ad and I intended to come and spend a few minutes laughing at this Ray Smith character. I think I can say I had already 'committed this sin in my heart' even though I did not know it was a sin.
I could not do what I came to do.
I guess that's my answer to question 1 while it's still on the table. :)
Deborah-Leigh:
Hi Dave
Just a few thoughts.....temptation is not sin. Jesus was tempted.
The heart that is weak will look for occasions to sin as well expounded by the Psalms telling of those who are swift to run to mischief Proverbs 6: 16.
Appreciating the beauty of a woman or the strength of a man is not the same as taking the imagination and running with it into the fantasy of adultery or into the shame of guilty self gratification.
Casting all imaginings down to the captivity of Christ might well mean the liberty in Christ to enjoy without guilt what God creates without apology.
I think it is the lot of humanity, at some time, to enjoy the experience of the adrenalin rush of risk and the seduction of danger in the daring allure of temptation, unti9l such time as it is learned that temptation is like the offer to drink sea water to quench a thirst!
We all have fallen short of the glory of God. To do so, is the human condition. To overcome is the spiritual, and prevention is of God.
I went out on a Sat. night after I had about 3-4 shots of Scotch. In my new Cadillac Coupe DeVille and I was looking for trouble... didn’t find it. I’m serious....God prevented it. http://forums.bibletruths.com/index.php?action=search2
To ask if I have wanted to sin and didn’t, or if I have not wanted to sin, and did, for me, is the same as asking if I am human. Humankind is the 666. No temptation has taken anyone but such as is common to humankind.
That God is changing physical, carnal humanity into His Spiritual Image, is His Will, that is being done.
Arc
Dave in Tenn:
Thanks, Deb. I reckon Ray is part of the 'anybody' in the questions.
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